News Tanking lid about to blow - Melbourne in the gun

HappyChappy35

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2011
2,347
1,773
Geelong
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Australian Cricket Team
Can someone direct me to the rule that outlaws tanking?

Whether there is a written law on tanking or not is irrelevant. The issue here is the integrity of the competition, and should the AFL be sweeping tanking under the carpet, it may be comprised.
If found guilty, Melbourne must be punished. Regardless of what position they are in on/off the field, the AFL, again, cannot afford to risk the integrity of the game by allowing a club to manipulate the system, which is what tanking essentially is IMO.
The AFL need to make it clear that tanking is unacceptable, and the only way of warning other clubs about it is by punishing offenders (should the Demons be guilty of it, which is debatable).
 

bulletproof

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2003
8,418
19,838
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong
Lets hope this investigation does not run too deep, there might be questions about our 2006 season when we played Kent Kingsley at full forward even though he could not kick, thus securing Joel Selwood as a result. Well done Kent, well done!

The AFL is beyond parody at the moment, I am amazed there is not some sort of comedy mockumentary being scripted about the goings on at AFL HQ.
 
I'm more pissed at the AFL Powers-that-be. For years supporters and the media were talking until they were blue in the face that the set-up of picks (particularly priority picks) was deeply flawed and rewarded mediocrity.

Now a club has been, possibly, caught out because the carrot was too big and juicy.

Yet for years, the AFL stuck it's head in the sand and denied it would ever happen.

All this is made worse by the fact that one of the guys Melbourne got, then did a runner and Melbourne got handsomely compensated for it.

Well done AFL, this is scandal of your own making.
 

AM

The standard you walk past is the one you accept
Aug 18, 2006
24,579
23,475
Here there and everywhere
AFL Club
Geelong
Lets hope this investigation does not run too deep, there might be questions about our 2006 season when we played Kent Kingsley at full forward even though he could not kick, thus securing Joel Selwood as a result. Well done Kent, well done!

The AFL is beyond parody at the moment, I am amazed there is not some sort of comedy mockumentary being scripted about the goings on at AFL HQ.
At last they are being forced to face-up to a matter they've skirted around for a long time. That can't be a bad thing I'd say.
 
Dec 10, 2003
58,427
66,178
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
I would hazard a guess ....

...... take priority over the medium- or long-term plan for success."

Fantastic Post ( I have short quoted it due to length) , I disagree with some of it but very well done Baudolino:thumbsu:


There are variables involved of course, but generally speaking the better your draft pick is, the more likely you are to procure a quality player, and thus the more valuable an asset you will have in your hands.

I think Catempire had good range of stats of this once about success from each round but as a rough guess Im not sure the history of the draft would confirm this. If we went back to every draft since 87 , and you compare #1 to 2-10 , I wonder how often #1 is obviously the best player.But what there is no doubt about is there is a huge potential long term advantage with additional picks. Most of incentive that is debated is because of the extra picks gained , not 1 v 2. When Carlton won (sorry lost) that Kruzer Cup game that extra pick allowed them to get Judd and still get Kruzer. How would they gone with just 1 pick?

My stance that we should stack the draft in order of best to worst teams, but I disagree with the current method for gauging of it. On bad season doesn't automatically mean your should be getting the best kid or kids. Imagine during Geelongs period of success it had one year of hell , would it really have be more in need of draft help then a side that hasn't seen finals in 20 years?

And what type of help? If they are really in desperate need , there is a good probability there because of poor performance in drafting and poor development of kids. How does giving these clubs more picks help them. It like filling up fuel tank with a hole in it.
 

Moggy

Premiership Player
Sep 7, 2012
3,523
5,886
Oslo
AFL Club
Geelong
And what type of help? If they are really in desperate need , there is a good probability there because of poor performance in drafting and poor development of kids. How does giving these clubs more picks help them. It like filling up fuel tank with a hole in it.

A good point.
Similar, in some ways, to giving aid to Africa (I know, I know - a far more complex problem!)

What I mean is that giving cash and/or food has been shown to be ineffective. Teaching people how to farm and maintain their land is a much better approach.
 

Hot Tin Roof

Club Legend
Oct 26, 2012
1,322
1,670
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong Cats
Would a 'non-finalist/bottom half' draft lottery go some way toward a solution, in preference to handing out gifts to those under-performing/failing clubs who best stretch the rules? Other than a 2 division comp. with relegation and reward, I'm scratching the noodle.
 

Beth

Cancelled
Jun 18, 2004
2,649
2,484
Inside Alistair Clarkson's head
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Chargers, Ducks
I feel sorry for Melbourne fc and it's supporters, 5 years of being crap on the field, lost Scully and now this. It's like another kick in the guts for them. They are accused of tanking to get a player who has already gone to another club.

Oh me too, I feel for the players as well who have been "developed" and I use that term very loosely in such a crap environment. You get drafted to the big time you probably will get one small shot at it and you end up at a place that puts you in the ruck when you are a 183cm small forward in order to "experiment" and I use the term loosely. If that was my son I would burn the place down.
 
Aug 2, 2012
34,820
56,387
AFL Club
Geelong
Would a 'non-finalist/bottom half' draft lottery go some way toward a solution, in preference to handing out gifts to those under-performing/failing clubs who best stretch the rules? Other than a 2 division comp. with relegation and reward, I'm scratching the noodle.

Depends how many clubs you have in the lottery.
If, as is often suggested, it is the bottom 4, then it does no good at all, it just pushes the tanking incentive a bit further up the ladder.
Non-finalists might work, because supporters would go apeshit if the club tanked whilst still in contention. It then becomes a question of stats, as to who has performed better out of the top 9 picks - if there has been no difference, then you might have your solution.
 

Hot Tin Roof

Club Legend
Oct 26, 2012
1,322
1,670
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong Cats
Depends how many clubs you have in the lottery.
If, as is often suggested, it is the bottom 4, then it does no good at all, it just pushes the tanking incentive a bit further up the ladder.
Non-finalists might work, because supporters would go apeshit if the club tanked whilst still in contention. It then becomes a question of stats, as to who has performed better out of the top 9 picks - if there has been no difference, then you might have your solution.
I'm warming to a bottom eight lottery, followed by teams 10 through 1.
*Would also like to see zones re-introduced (pre-draft, each club nominates one local zone player). [*For another thread]
 

topic97

Club Legend
Sep 10, 2007
2,399
770
AFL Club
Geelong
I'm warming to a bottom eight lottery, followed by teams 10 through 1.
*Would also like to see zones re-introduced (pre-draft, each club nominates one local zone player). [*For another thread]

Ive said for years we should have a lottery system akin to the NBA - works well for them!!

In regards to tanking, its obvious it happens you dont have to be a rhode scholar to figure that out.
I think all the AFL needs to do is accept responsibility for the situation due to a very substandard draft consesison system, then draw a line in the sand and say that any team caught tanking from now on in cops it.

But then Vlads unwillingness to accept any blame for anything - even if its his fault - makes me think that Melbourne is going to cop it.
Collignwood wont be touched as they are worth too much to the AFL.
 

Hot Tin Roof

Club Legend
Oct 26, 2012
1,322
1,670
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Geelong Cats
Ive said for years we should have a lottery system akin to the NBA - works well for them!!

In regards to tanking, its obvious it happens you dont have to be a rhode scholar to figure that out.
I think all the AFL needs to do is accept responsibility for the situation due to a very substandard draft consesison system, then draw a line in the sand and say that any team caught tanking from now on in cops it.

But then Vlads unwillingness to accept any blame for anything - even if its his fault - makes me think that Melbourne is going to cop it.
Collignwood wont be touched as they are worth too much to the AFL.
I was in the womb when my mother was scared to a near-death experience by a Harlem Globetrotter. So I'll take your word on the NBA draft.
That being the case, we should be asking: How could the AFL invest heavily into studying U.S. sporting operations and miss that one.
 

AM

The standard you walk past is the one you accept
Aug 18, 2006
24,579
23,475
Here there and everywhere
AFL Club
Geelong
I'm warming to a bottom eight lottery, followed by teams 10 through 1.
*Would also like to see zones re-introduced (pre-draft, each club nominates one local zone player). [*For another thread]
I think the basic draft system has served us well. From my perspective the problems seem to have arisen with the AFL tampering (there's that word again) too much with it. Combined with the salary cap it has achieved its essential purpose.

A couple of interesting quotes from a Conversation edu story:

The Australian Football League has been alive to this, borrowing “equalisation” measures from their North American counterparts, the NFL, since the 1980s. For the intended outcome of the draft and salary cap is to reinforce the belief that every team will be able to compete equally for the premiership cup.
And despite various obstacles, these equalisation strategies have been remarkably successful. Indeed, while the growth in audiences – and thus revenue – of the AFL has generally been credited to the national expansion of the League, the equalisation strategies have been a key factor. Only five different clubs won a premiership in the two decades before the AFL began to expand its competition in 1988. Since then all bar the two most recent teams have played finals, fourteen have been a game away from the grand final, and ten have won the flag.

A further step would be to create a lottery for the picks as the NBA has done in the US whereby the teams who finish lowest have more chance, but no guarantee, of being awarded the first draft pick. Unfortunately the most recent NBA season showed that this could simply lead to multiple teams tanking in order to try and “win” the first pick.

http://theconversation.edu.au/afl-and-tanking-the-cure-might-be-worse-than-the-disease-8623
 
Aug 2, 2012
34,820
56,387
AFL Club
Geelong
I think the basic draft system has served us well. From my perspective the problems seem to have arisen with the AFL tampering (there's that word again) too much with it. Combined with the salary cap it has achieved its essential purpose.

A couple of interesting quotes from a Conversation edu story:


http://theconversation.edu.au/afl-and-tanking-the-cure-might-be-worse-than-the-disease-8623

I think this quote is even more telling:
The AFL often seems impregnable. Despite the scandals and angst it marches on. Membership figures, crowd numbers, and television audiences have all increased markedly over the past decade. A key reason for this is that even when supporters become disaffected by the game they still love their club and buy into the dreams of future glory. But these dreams of glory are fragile, and it is the AFL’s need to nurture the hopes of barrackers that explains its reluctance to move firmly against tanking.
 
I think this quote is even more telling:
The AFL often seems impregnable. Despite the scandals and angst it marches on. Membership figures, crowd numbers, and television audiences have all increased markedly over the past decade. A key reason for this is that even when supporters become disaffected by the game they still love their club and buy into the dreams of future glory. But these dreams of glory are fragile, and it is the AFL’s need to nurture the hopes of barrackers that explains its reluctance to move firmly against tanking.
Wow. That's very deep and meaningful. Lucky this thread is not on the Pies board - they'd be completely bamboozled.

I wonder if the picture is as rosy as we might think? TV audiences may be up, but this is linked to scheduling of games. Overall crowd numbers may be up, but there are now 18 teams, and MCG is at almost saturation point. Memberships may be up, but how much of that is to do with the 1, 2, 3 and 5 game packages (I exaggerate!)?

So maybe the AFL realises or knows things are not going to get any better, and they now have to be seen to be doing something....
 

footscore

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 1, 2012
9,168
4,222
AFL Club
Geelong
can all Melbourne clubs survive?
You wonder if Melbourne is going to get through the next decade if they do get severely penalized with this latest indiscretion, may be the final blow that keeps them down for good
 
Aug 2, 2012
34,820
56,387
AFL Club
Geelong
Wow. That's very deep and meaningful. Lucky this thread is not on the Pies board - they'd be completely bamboozled.

I wonder if the picture is as rosy as we might think? TV audiences may be up, but this is linked to scheduling of games. Overall crowd numbers may be up, but there are now 18 teams, and MCG is at almost saturation point. Memberships may be up, but how much of that is to do with the 1, 2, 3 and 5 game packages (I exaggerate!)?

So maybe the AFL realises or knows things are not going to get any better, and they now have to be seen to be doing something....

Yes, you can take the first 1/2 para with a grain of salt.
It was the second part that rang true; the AFL hasn't done anything about tanking because it has to keep the diehards onside, and it knows they all want their club to do it if it will help the club get off the bottom.
 

topic97

Club Legend
Sep 10, 2007
2,399
770
AFL Club
Geelong
can all Melbourne clubs survive?
You wonder if Melbourne is going to get through the next decade if they do get severely penalized with this latest indiscretion, may be the final blow that keeps them down for good

I had that thought myself.
Perhaps this is the AFLs way of totally destroying the club so they can either merge or move it? They have seen an opportunity & are taking it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hobart demons pop up in the near future if Melbourne do get bent over.
 
Aug 2, 2012
34,820
56,387
AFL Club
Geelong
I had that thought myself.
Perhaps this is the AFLs way of totally destroying the club so they can either merge or move it? They have seen an opportunity & are taking it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hobart demons pop up in the near future if Melbourne do get bent over.

If the AFL decides to tangle with the MFC I think that, despite their own self-importance, they are likely to find out just where the real power still resides in this old town. A couple of short phone calls from the MCC President to the Premier's Office would probably be enough to bring the plans to a screeching halt.
 

BotsMaster

2022 Sep Premiers
Jan 26, 2009
29,262
34,638
Cheat Park
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Everton, Cardinals
can all Melbourne clubs survive?
You wonder if Melbourne is going to get through the next decade if they do get severely penalized with this latest indiscretion, may be the final blow that keeps them down for good
Could we see Melbourne being booted back to the VFL and maybe bring in a more successful VFL team?
 
Back