Opinion Tanking. The elephant that isn't going away

[big_e]

I think Hutchy was right on the mark personally. They just had to orchestrate one more loss to get a truly generational talent.

No one will remember this spirited win against the Suns. Or if they do, it will be probably be for the club's stupidity when Harley is absolutely dominating the comp.

We played against Brisbane in the Cam Rayner Cup. Won the game, lost the ability to get the best kid in the draft. Early days, it probably looked a foolish decision.

I'm pretty happy with LDU, though.

 

[kranky al]

I remember the Kruezer Cup mostly for being lectured by Carlton supporting mates at the time. "Will be better than Buddy"

Going back and checking the draft order based on your post reminded me of Cale Morton. And that's put me in a good mood!

Cale morton should have been a player. Just got thrown in at the deep end too soon and lost confidence.

 

[Cool Kangas]

I think Hutchy was right on the mark personally. They just had to orchestrate one more loss to get a truly generational talent.

No one will remember this spirited win against the Suns. Or if they do, it will be probably be for the club's stupidity when Harley is absolutely dominating the comp.

No he’s not. And frankly I find it hard to believe that’s what he really thinks. He’s just trying to generate debate and drama on that poor excuse for a show (and no I don’t watch it, I just heard about his take).

What I witnessed on the weekend when the club had its first win after 21 straight losses was awesome - joy, excitement, reward for effort. It’s about bloody time. I’m not gonna deny I was confused which way I wanted the result to go but after seeing what I saw and feeling such joy as a supporter - it was worth everything. We would’ve gone into the off season still without a win. It would’ve been awful.

 

[kranky al]

No he’s not. And frankly I find it hard to believe that’s what he really thinks. He’s just trying to generate debate and drama on that poor excuse for a show (and no I don’t watch it, I just heard about his take).

What I witnessed on the weekend when the club had its first win after 21 straight losses was awesome - joy, excitement, reward for effort. It’s about bloody time. I’m not gonna deny I was confused which way I wanted the result to go but after seeing what I saw and feeling such joy as a supporter - it was worth everything. We would’ve gone into the off season still without a win. It would’ve been awful.

This.

Later that day I was cheering the eagles for a win.

Pick one is a consolation prize.

Eagles won a flag with 4 top ten picks - 2 of whom weren’t playing on gf day.

Culture >>>> tumbleweeds >>> melbourne >>>> more tumbleweeds carlton >>>> draft picks

 

[Blackhawk42]

It doesn't exist? When did it disappear exactly?

Can you show me any evidence since the Melbourne situation 14 years ago?

Unless you're going the Damien Barrett route of 'form of tanking' when clubs prioritise getting games into their kids at the expense of ageing veterans.

Hawthorn were accused of it 12 months ago with list management decisions and subsequently won 7 games, including knocking off the teams who finished 1st and 2nd.

West Coast and North Melbourne literally swapped ladder positions in the final weeks of the season, prioritising winning over access to a potential generational talent at pick 1.

Those examples are only recent history as well.

 

[kranky al]

Can you show me any evidence since the Melbourne situation 14 years ago?

Unless you're going the Damien Barrett route of 'form of tanking' when clubs prioritise getting games into their kids at the expense of ageing veterans.

Hawthorn were accused of it 12 months ago with list management decisions and subsequently won 7 games, including knocking off the teams who finished 1st and 2nd.

West Coast and North Melbourne literally swapped ladder positions in the final weeks of the season, prioritising winning over access to a potential generational talent at pick 1.

Those examples are only recent history as well.

I think clubs have learned - some the hard way , others by watching - that tanking is a mugs game.

 

[JasRulz63]

We played against Brisbane in the Cam Rayner Cup. Won the game, lost the ability to get the best kid in the draft. Early days, it probably looked a foolish decision.

I'm pretty happy with LDU, though.

Cam Rayner was by no means a certainty at pick 1, and it was always close between him, LDU and Brayshaw as to who would go number 1. Rayner had massive question marks over his ability to run out a game.

 

[WeaponX]

Tanking means decades of Bad Karma..just ask Carlton.

 

[Freomaniac]

We don't tank, it's not part of our culture. A culture that's been a part of our sustained success. We don't rely on concessions like some club. We may be shite now, but I have a feeling we won't be down for that long. I mean I'm realistic, it'll be years, but yeah we'll come back Harley Reid or not.

I dont hate or dislike you Perthboy.

But lets be honest, This is gonna be a long term eagles rebuild. It was not overdue because your team made finals in 2015-20, but it was needed.

eagles record of not making finals for consecutive years is 3 years in a row from 2008-10 and this current one of 2021-23.

I dislike it when people say, we dont do this or dont do that, its part of our culture.

I dont see the eagles making 2024 with their current ageing list. it needs some exciting and young talent coming through not the old and stale side they have now.

 

[Freomaniac]

Brisbane won the last game of the season in 1998 and cost themselves a priority pick and only managed to win three flags in the next five years. For some reason clubs still thought it was worth tanking throughout the '00s to great cost to themselves and the competition. Why anyone would expect us to do the same beggars belief.

These highly-touted players often don't even end up being the best player in the draft, let alone generational talents.

Is that so?

So you forget the bit about Robert Walls building up that Brisbane side in 1991-5? That brisbane side made finals in 1995-7. Brisbane had a down year in 1998 then a prelim in 1999, semi final loss in 2000 and 4 grand finals in 2001-4.

 

[Freomaniac]

Probably happens less than in the NBA where they have a lottery system

Gifting 2 draft picks for winning 5 or less games was the real incentive to tank

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

NBA is a totally different beast though.

82 game season. 30 teams . 15 in the eastern conference and 15 in the western conference. No team has gone 82 wins and 0 losses. No team has gone 0 wins and 82 losses.

Never seen a side get less than 10-12 wins in a season since the 1990s. a few sides posted 11 wins and 71 losses in a season. So thats like North Melbournes 12 wins in 4 seasons from 2020-23.

Worst side in the NBA history in an 82 game season was 1972-73 philadephia 76ers. 9 wins and 73 losses. the team went 0-15 and lost 38 of its 1st 41 games.

 

[Father Jack]

Is that so?

So you forget the bit about Robert Walls building up that Brisbane side in 1991-5? That brisbane side made finals in 1995-7. Brisbane had a down year in 1998 then a prelim in 1999, semi final loss in 2000 and 4 grand finals in 2001-4.

What difference does that make to the fact that Brisbane could easily have decided that it was best if they didn't win in the last round of 1998? Do you think that they should have gone for that very juicy priority pick at the expense of possibly sabotaging their culture?

 

[the harry]

I dont hate or dislike you Perthboy.

But lets be honest, This is gonna be a long term eagles rebuild. It was not overdue because your team made finals in 2015-20, but it was needed.

eagles record of not making finals for consecutive years is 3 years in a row from 2008-10 and this current one of 2021-23.

I dislike it when people say, we dont do this or dont do that, its part of our culture.

I dont see the eagles making 2024 with their current ageing list. it needs some exciting and young talent coming through not the old and stale side they have now.

They did say it'll take years. Plus, we just had 800 games walk out the door, so unlikely to be the "old and stale side"

 

[demondavey]

No evidence of it this year at all

 

[Obeanie1]

Well done to both clubs. I was shocked by both wins.

My apologies for comments earlier claiming North would tank. I was wrong.

Now Im hoping the AFL will reward both clubs with some better access to our academy kids. Both clubs have earned it IMO by not tanking and improving the integrity of the comp.

 

[The Anvil]

No he’s not. And frankly I find it hard to believe that’s what he really thinks. He’s just trying to generate debate and drama on that poor excuse for a show (and no I don’t watch it, I just heard about his take).

What I witnessed on the weekend when the club had its first win after 21 straight losses was awesome - joy, excitement, reward for effort. It’s about bloody time. I’m not gonna deny I was confused which way I wanted the result to go but after seeing what I saw and feeling such joy as a supporter - it was worth everything. We would’ve gone into the off season still without a win. It would’ve been awful.

Absolutely, some fans are like the old bloke stalking the divorcees at the over 28s when they have a perfect good missus at home that they put no effort with as they gaze on what could be with said ladies at the over 28s.

The thing is, when the old bloke is wondering what he could have, what he does have says he doesn't care about me and they ship off.

Getting a win (which some see as a cost), is prioritising the missus at home, in this case the Powells, Philips, Lazaros, Thomas', and Larkeys of the world who are great in their own right and will go into 2024 looking to back up a win rather than request a trade because the club prevented them from getting a win.

We all want the shiny new toy, known as Harley Reid, but let that play out how it plays out and enjoy what's in the stable doing what we want them to do which is get some wins!

 

[00Stinger]

NBA is a totally different beast though.

82 game season. 30 teams . 15 in the eastern conference and 15 in the western conference. No team has gone 82 wins and 0 losses. No team has gone 0 wins and 82 losses.

Never seen a side get less than 10-12 wins in a season since the 1990s. a few sides posted 11 wins and 71 losses in a season. So thats like North Melbournes 12 wins in 4 seasons from 2020-23.

Worst side in the NBA history in an 82 game season was 1972-73 philadephia 76ers. 9 wins and 73 losses. the team went 0-15 and lost 38 of its 1st 41 games.

My point is more around teams know that 1 player can really change a franchise so the incentive is there more

 

[rapidfire7]

Reports coming out of the AFL are now saying that it was actually the Suns who tanked, after the club's board was paid a substantial sum of money by The West Coast Eagles in blockchain cryptocurrency.

This was in response to Adam Simpson's spiteful and vindictive display the week before, where he disobeyed clear directives to be competitive, but not to win, likely due to the continuing uncertainty over his coaching future.

This left the Eagle's management with no other choice, than to resort to the rather unorthodox and extreme measures outlined above, in order to re-secure the number 1 draft pick and likely player of the century Harley Reid.

The tanking rabbit hole really is far deeper and darker than most people dare to contemplate.

 

[Freomaniac]

What difference does that make to the fact that Brisbane could easily have decided that it was best if they didn't win in the last round of 1998? Do you think that they should have gone for that very juicy priority pick at the expense of possibly sabotaging their culture?

I dont think it would make a difference looking back at it. They made finals from 1999-2004.

 

[Obeanie1]

Reports coming out of the AFL are now saying that it was actually the Suns who tanked, after the club's board was paid a substantial sum of money by The West Coast Eagles in blockchain cryptocurrency.

This was in response to Adam Simpson's spiteful and vindictive display the week before, where he disobeyed clear directives to be competitive, but not to win, likely due to the continuing uncertainty over his coaching future.

This left the Eagle's management with no other choice, than to resort to the rather unorthodox and extreme measures outlined above, in order to re-secure the number 1 draft pick and likely player of the century Harley Reid.

The tanking rabbit hole really is far deeper and darker than most people dare to contemplate.

And just out. Larkey suddenly owns a HJ franchise for kicking straight.

Now THATs how to make your money work outside the caps. Yer!

 

[Freomaniac]

Tanking means decades of Bad Karma..just ask Carlton.

Tanking got hawks the 2008 then the 2013-5 flags

 

[peetoo]

Tanking got hawks the 2008 then the 2013-5 flags

Pick 1 2001. Did freo tank that year. Can’t think what else you mean

 

[Freomaniac]

Pick 1 2001. Did freo tank that year. Can’t think what else you mean

Freo were badly run then.

 

[maskmcgee]

North now under fire for winning that game, condemned for not tanking.

 

[Taper]

North now under fire for winning that game, condemned for not tanking.

Same thing would have been said if North hadn't finished bottom in 2021 and missed out on Horne-Francis as a result.
There's no guarantee Reid would have stayed at Arden St had he been drafted by North.