Tanking

[theGav56]

GJ and GJLite are advocating that we tank and lose every game from here on in. I have a couple of teeny weeny concerns about this philosophy;

• it undermines our most likely future coach as credible replacement for Connolly.

• it supports an ethos of losing which we have been working desperately to eradicate.

• it undermines the confidence that players have in themselves and the playing group. Especially poor when we need to resign players such as Pavlich and Warnock.

• it will enhance us as a target for the media and industry generally.

• etc

I think the club should try and win every game, and every player should be doing their best to be in the team. When they are in the team they should be doing their best to win every contest. I think Harvey should be encouraged to do everything he can to show what he has to offer. The exact opposite of tanking. Ferocious, competative football.

 

[Belnakor]

The problem with guys like you Gav, is you don't want to make the hard decisions. Win a couple of games in the future is good for the future of Mark Harvey. Its almost irrelevant to the fremantle football club. We'll probably end up winning 1 or 2 more games, but we're still going to end up bottom 4.. thats just a sad reality.

You want to see Ferocious, competative football? Don't we all. I didn't see any on the weekend unfortunately.

Us and three other teams can't make the finals from here. Not exactly esteemed company.

 

[ImperialPurple]

GJ and GJLite.



I am going to have to use that Gav.. in fact I already have.

 

[FD369]

The problem with guys like you Gav, is you don't want to make the hard decisions. Win a couple of games in the future is good for the future of Mark Harvey. Its almost irrelevant to the fremantle football club. We'll probably end up winning 1 or 2 more games, but we're still going to end up bottom 4.. thats just a sad reality.

You want to see Ferocious, competative football? Don't we all. I didn't see any on the weekend unfortunately.

Us and three other teams can't make the finals from here. Not exactly esteemed company.

You advocate the broom theory and want to bring in young blood so would it not be good for said young blood to have a mindset that is built around a winning culture.

 

[Belnakor]

You advocate the broom theory and want to bring in young blood so would it not be good for said young blood to have a mindset that is built around a winning culture.

You don't have both options mate, you either play the kids, and hope they win, not caring either way, or you don't play the kids, field our strongest team, and try to the remaining games straight. One is a path to the future, the other is deadend.

 

[summerthebat]

If we lost every game from here on........ membership would drop anywhere between 4 to 10k... That's a lot of money, there is no way management will jeopardise that. We may start playing a lot of youth from here on, but you could pretty much guarantee the defence and majority of the forward line will stay as they are.

 

[estibador]

The problem with guys like you Gav, is you don't want to make the hard decisions. Win a couple of games in the future is good for the future of Mark Harvey. Its almost irrelevant to the fremantle football club.

For too long our club has had a losing culture. I think the confidence boost and momentum we would gain for next year from winning the majority of our games would far outweigh the negatives of dropping down a spot or two in the draft.

Whatever happens we are probably still going to have a pick in the top 7 or so, and from the looks of Weavers midfielder draft rankings that Lachy put up that should still be enough to snare us one of Masten or Palmer.

I would like to see Foster and Ibbo given a few games so they know what they have to work on for next year though. But given their consistent form all year you couldn't really call it 'tanking' to play them.

 

[prattsta]

Your obsession continues...

You are misrepresenting my comments again.

I have suggested that the club should use the remaining games to:

1. Rest important players who are injured so that they have an uninterrupted pre-season; Agree

2. Play fringe players for 4 games straight so the club can make a decision as to whether they should be delisted. For example, Walker is in the firing line - but some people think he deserves a shot in the midfield. I say, play him for four games and assess his true value to the club. If he bombs, then cut him. Likewise with a guy like Andrew Browne, who through injury has never really shown us what he can do - give him four games, then if he is useless just delist him. Troy Cook should also play the season out so that he can get his 150 and life membership. Agree (although with cooky, if the club really wanted they could just make him a life member...)

3. Blood some young guys. If we are going to be good next year we need depth. Guys like Ibbo, Collard, Warnock, Murphy should all get four straight games. Agree

I never said "we should lose every game from here on in" - and you know it.

However, the effect of implementing the above 3 points is that the club will probably find it much harder to win their remaining games.

Arent these just logical moves the club should be making. Why shouldn't the club get a better look at exactly where the list is at, find out who makes the grade and who falls short.

Nobody is saying lets deliberately lose games, that would be stupid. Although if somebody told me that freo deliberately lost last week i would find it hard to argue otherwise...

 

[theGav56]

Your obsession continues...

You are misrepresenting my comments again.

I have suggested that the club should use the remaining games to:

1. Rest important players who are injured so that they have an uninterrupted pre-season;

2. Play fringe players for 4 games straight so the club can make a decision as to whether they should be delisted. For example, Walker is in the firing line - but some people think he deserves a shot in the midfield. I say, play him for four games and assess his true value to the club. If he bombs, then cut him. Likewise with a guy like Andrew Browne, who through injury has never really shown us what he can do - give him four games, then if he is useless just delist him. Troy Cook should also play the season out so that he can get his 150 and life membership.

3. Blood some young guys. If we are going to be good next year we need depth. Guys like Ibbo, Collard, Warnock, Murphy should all get four straight games.

I never said "we should lose every game from here on in" - and you know it.

However, the effect of implementing the above 3 points is that the club will probably find it much harder to win their remaining games.

That is the entire quote so i can't be accused of misrepresenting anything/one. Similarly, here is anothe complete quote;

If there is even a hint of injury to a Freo player they should be rested.

If Headland has done his hamstring - then dont play him for the rest of the year. The last thing we need is for Headland to have an interrupted pre-season campaign.

Additionally, Haze is clearly not right - so give him 4 weeks off to recover.

Sandilands has the early signs of OP - so dont play him for the rest of this season.

The season is over - so we should throw a few young guys playing the WAFL into the mix. Give them 4 games, and see if they can cut it. And Play Walker in the midfield, and see if he is up to AFL standard. And give Cook 3 more games. Give the young guys, and fringe players four games to show their wares - it will be obvious if they are up to afl standard pretty quickly - then wield the axe for the underperformers at the end of the year.

Effectively, I believe the club should tank the rest of the season.

Plus this complete quote, which also quoted GJ's extract; "Effectively, I believe the club should tank the rest of the season"

Yup, there is no point to us winning any more games.

The bits I would like to extract for emphasis are;

I never said "we should lose every game from here on in" - and you know it.

Effectively, I believe the club should tank the rest of the season.

 

[Belnakor]

Whatever happens we are probably still going to have a pick in the top 7 or so, and from the looks of Weavers midfielder draft rankings that Lachy put up that should still be enough to snare us one of Masten or Palmer.

Should be. You don't know that. If we finish 9th by some miracle we WILL miss out on those guys. So effectively your willing to trade a couple of players we would really like, for a couple of consolation wins at the end of the season.

 

[Belnakor]

That is the entire quote so i can't be accused of misrepresenting anything/one. Similarly, here is anothe complete quote;



Plus this complete quote, which also quoted GJ's extract; "Effectively, I believe the club should tank the rest of the season"





The bits I would like to extract for emphasis are;

Me saying there is no point to winning any extra games is not saying we SHOULD lose every game from now on you fool.

 

[Belnakor]

For too long our club has had a losing culture. I think the confidence boost and momentum we would gain for next year from winning the majority of our games would far outweigh the negatives of dropping down a spot or two in the draft.

You get a winning culture from winning games when they count and having good players there to soak up the experience. WInning a few consolation games with a bunch of guys who probably won't be here next year is not going to help with that.

 

[theGav56]

Whatever happens we are probably still going to have a pick in the top 7 or so, and from the looks of Weavers midfielder draft rankings that Lachy put up that should still be enough to snare us one of Masten or Palmer.

Yes. Regardless of where we finish we will get a reasonable player.

 

[theGav56]

You get a winning culture from winning games when they count and having good players there to soak up the experience. WInning a few consolation games with a bunch of guys who probably won't be here next year is not going to help with that.

You get a losing culture by saying this game is one that counts, but that one doesn't. Winning every possible game will help develop that.

 

[Belnakor]

Yes. Regardless of where we finish we will get a reasonable player.

Well, so long as your happy with a "reasonable" player, i guess your approach is fine.

 

[theGav56]

Once again, no one is suggesting that the club tells the players "the next four games dont count".

Why do you keep responding to my comments to Belnakor's posts? It enhances the view that you are each others evil twin.

 

[theGav56]

do you really think the players that fit into these categories would "play to lose"?

No I don't. I am not the one who has suggested that we "tank" and have nothing to gain from winning any more games.

 

[dominguez]

Yes. Regardless of where we finish we will get a reasonable player.

Definately. If we win 3 of our last 5 games that will be a good result considering there's a derby and two tough away games. That would give us ten wins, ten wins would see us finish 10th or 11th and end up with pick 6 or 7 if carlton win another game. I'd rather have pick 6 and go into 2008 with a little momentum (and increase our chances of Pav staying) than lose our last six games and have pick 4.

When people talk of tanking it's not like the coach tells the players to play at 80%, but you select the 22 more for the future than to get the 4 points. The fact that McManus and Matt Carr contribute very little would mean that our chances of winning wouldn't be diminished if they were dropped IMO.

While I hope that we win a couple more games, I do think that we should give the young guys a better run and forget about giving Cookie 3 games.

Play Ibbo and Foster for 3 games (assuming they perform to a reasonable level).

Give Drum a run on the wing.

Play Murphy.

Drop McManus for rounds 19 and 20, then bring McManus, Cook and Parker in for a farewell performance against the demons in round 21.

Play Johnson on the oppositions CHF.

Play Hasleby at half forward to give others a go in the middle.

Try Duffield in the back pocket on a dangerous small forward, we have very few options if Hayden gets injured.

The injuries to Dodd and Headland could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[dominguez]

I think guys like Walker and Browne would play like they are playing for their careers.

Walker has had a decade to prove he is an AFL calibre footballer and has failed to do so, I'll be bloody p1ssed off if we waste a spot in the 22 on him again this year.

 

[theGav56]

Walker has had a decade to prove he is an AFL calibre footballer and has failed to do so, I'll be bloody p1ssed off if we waste a spot in the 22 on him again this year.

MacManus, Cook and Parker would only be marginally more deserving of a farewell game. If you are bring them into the last game, then surely Walker would be there too, except that notionally he is still young enough to get picked up by someone else.

Do you think harvey's development is more or less important than the young players? I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive.

 

[zolloz]

No I don't. I am not the one who has suggested that we "tank" and have nothing to gain from winning any more games.

We have just as much to gain from winning our last 5 games as we have from losing them all.

Which is absolutley sweet **** all.

This season is over. Belnakor, GentlemanJeff and Dominguez are the only ones actually thinking further ahead than 2 feet in front of them.

Trying to save face and pride by winning a couple of meaningless games now is a waste of time and effort.

Nothing can be salvaged from this season. Let's get over it and look forward to a brighter 2008.

 

[Belnakor]

This season is over. Belnakor, GentlemanJeff and Dominguez are the only ones actually thinking further ahead than 2 feet in front of them.

Cheers. Gav is the type of guy who would have been happy to Jeffrey delisted. He is more concerned with how the club looks than actually moving forward. I guess he doesn't want to have to sit at the champagne social without being able to get on the moral highground about tanking and Jeffrey having a few drinks.

 

[Clay Davis]

Tanking has never delivered any club a premiership.

Losing is for losers and Richmond. I say we steer clear of that philosophy.

 

[The Night Shift]

GJ and GJLite .

LmAo

 

[wehavethepassion]

OUt Big Bird(inj) Dessie (Inj) and Drum
IN Warnock, Tatter & Bomber

Why drop Drum and keep M.Carr??