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Tanking

  • Thread starter Thread starter theGav56
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zolloz said:
Trying to save face and pride by winning a couple of meaningless games now is a waste of time and effort.

Nothing can be salvaged from this season. Let's get over it and look forward to a brighter 2008.:D
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Sorry but this simplistic, short-sighted view is completely WRONG!

Freo, as a club should look at winning EVERY game it plays, whether they are "meaningless" or not.

I would much rather beat the Eagles, Essendon, Saints etc... than to lose to them, how can they be meaningless?

Sure we may not have the draft pick we'd want but i'd rather go in with the attitude that we have to win every game than to look for next year.

As a club that's what we seem to do every year - look forward to next year.

It's not about saving face, it's about developing a winning culture. It's about Mark Harvey showing everyone at Freo that he is the best man to take us into that winning culture we so crave.

It's about Grover beating Lynch, then Lloyd, then Reiwoldt.

It's about every Freo player playing for their careers.

It's about Pav looking around and saying "yep, this is where I want to be for the rest of my career"

It's about playing your best team in every game.
 
dont worry, you guys dont have to try and tank. it simply happens for you.

seriously though...no one really tanks, its all about playing the "kids". like the above post, its about freo players playing for the careers and all that.
 

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docker_azza said:
To all those ones that want us to tank, why don't you just stay at home for our next two home games.
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Agree.

Let's try to finish with a rush and some momentum for 2008.

It might mean No.7 or 8 pick instead of pick 5 but at least we'd have the enjoyment of shaping the final 8 in the process.
 
Tundrawolf said:
Sorry but this simplistic, short-sighted view is completely WRONG!

Freo, as a club should look at winning EVERY game it plays, whether they are "meaningless" or not.

I would much rather beat the Eagles, Essendon, Saints etc... than to lose to them, how can they be meaningless?

Sure we may not have the draft pick we'd want but i'd rather go in with the attitude that we have to win every game than to look for next year.

As a club that's what we seem to do every year - look forward to next year.

It's not about saving face, it's about developing a winning culture. It's about Mark Harvey showing everyone at Freo that he is the best man to take us into that winning culture we so crave.

It's about Grover beating Lynch, then Lloyd, then Reiwoldt.

It's about every Freo player playing for their careers.

It's about Pav looking around and saying "yep, this is where I want to be for the rest of my career"

It's about playing your best team in every game.
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Well said TW
 
theGav56 said:
MacManus, Cook and Parker would only be marginally more deserving of a farewell game. If you are bring them into the last game, then surely Walker would be there too, except that notionally he is still young enough to get picked up by someone else.

Do you think harvey's development is more or less important than the young players? I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive.
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Cook won a B&F, McManus is a former captain and Parker is a former vice captain. They have done much more for the club than Walker. I would be quite happy if all four never played again, but I'm sure we'll see atleast 3 of them again this season.

Surely Harvey is going to develop as a coach regardless of who is in the 22? Hasleby said that the players have been told that anyone who doesn't show 100% commitment to the contest and the man with the ball will be dropped the following week. It will be interesting to watch the tape Sunday night to see if anyone does go in half arsed and whether or not they play against the bombers.
 
Tanking is bullshit... Have some honour... play for the colours, club, team mates, family, fans, yourself... whatever motivates you..... I certainly do not think Harves abd the boys would be tanking... Harves is a premiership champion who had the best master to teach him... There no way we'll tank which is the right thing to do. Tanking is honourless.
 
Belnakor said:
Cheers. Gav is the type of guy who would have been happy to Jeffrey delisted. He is more concerned with how the club looks than actually moving forward. I guess he doesn't want to have to sit at the champagne social without being able to get on the moral highground about tanking and Jeffrey having a few drinks.
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Is it you who accuses me of misquoting you? I have posted that i think Farmer should get another contract. Minimum pay, with a second contract at higher rate if he plays well, and does not get suspended.

So you prefer the moral lowground do you? good for you. Personally I don't see the point in team rules which farmer doesn't have to adhere to, but others do. I have a feeling Harvey may not either. And given his position as a club leader, particularly with the young indigenous players, I don't see his behaviour this year as anywhere near acceptable.

The other really amusing thing about your thinking in posts this year, is that you want to get rid of Headland, and keep Farmer. Nice thinking. Way to go!
 
Just give the first pick(do away with prioirty picks all together) to the 9th place side after H&A season.

Then wil see if every game isn't important!!
 
wehavethepassion said:
Just give the first pick(do away with prioirty picks all together) to the 9th place side after H&A season.

Then wil see if every game isn't important!!
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Thats the most ridiculous thing I've seen.
 

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wehavethepassion said:
Just give the first pick(do away with prioirty picks all together) to the 9th place side after H&A season.

Then wil see if every game isn't important!!
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A lottery would be much more sensible. Put the bottom four team names in a barrel. Based on todays ladder you could have 12 lotto balls with richmond written on them, 9 lotto balls with Melbourne written on them, 6 lotto balls with Carlton written on them and 3 lotto balls with Fremantle written on them. Then Demetriou pulls 3 lotto balls out the barrel, with the team picked first having pick one in the national draft, the team picked 3rd have pick 3 and the team not selected have pick 4. Obviously if one team is selected from the barrel more than once Demetriou would keep picking until he selects a lotto ball labeled with a team not yet selected. The other draft picks, from 5 to 16, would be based on ladder position like present.

A lottery would severely reduce tanking, because finishing 16th would still give a club a chance of getting pick one but it wouldn't be a guarantee like present.
 
docker_azza said:
They should go the NBA model and for the sides that don't play in the finals do a lottery to determine what number each club gets (out of picks 1-8).
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Haha, great minds think alike. :) I reckon the bottom four would be fairer though, if a team missed the finals on percentage then fluked pick one it would be a mssive boost.
 
dominguez said:
Haha, great minds think alike. :) I reckon the bottom four would be fairer though, if a team missed the finals on percentage then fluked pick one it would be a mssive boost.
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I wasn't on this forum over 12 months ago, but thats the exact model I suggested on another site. Its too bad the AFL ignores it.
 
Bradesmaen said:
I wasn't on this forum over 12 months ago, but thats the exact model I suggested on another site. Its too bad the AFL ignores it.
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I reckon they have looked at bottom 8 and ignored it, but if only the bottom four or even the bottom three go into the lottery it would be fair and would go a long way to solving the problem.
 
The problem with only having the bottom 4 in a lottery is we might still have to put up with accusations of 11th or 12th placed teams tanking to get into the bottom 4 if they couldn't make the finals. (Not saying they would, but perception is reality and all that)

At least if the whole bottom 8 are involved you don't have to worry about drawing cut off lines that teams could exploit. No one's going to tank their way out of finals just to be in the draft lottery.

Btw Dom if you're going to have 12,9,6 and 3 balls you might as well just simplify it down to 4,3,2 and 1 balls. Or am I missing something?
 
estibador said:
The problem with only having the bottom 4 in a lottery is we might still have to put up with accusations of 11th or 12th placed teams tanking to get into the bottom 4 if they couldn't make the finals. (Not saying they would, but perception is reality and all that)

At least if the whole bottom 8 are involved you don't have to worry about drawing cut off lines that teams could exploit. No one's going to tank their way out of finals just to be in the draft lottery.
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Good point. I actually like the 9th place side getting the top pick.
 

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estibador said:
The problem with only having the bottom 4 in a lottery is we might still have to put up with accusations of 11th or 12th placed teams tanking to get into the bottom 4 if they couldn't make the finals. (Not saying they would, but perception is reality and all that)

At least if the whole bottom 8 are involved you don't have to worry about drawing cut off lines that teams could exploit. No one's going to tank their way out of finals just to be in the draft lottery.

Btw Dom if you're going to have 12,9,6 and 3 balls you might as well just simplify it down to 4,3,2 and 1 balls. Or am I missing something?
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The team that finishes 13th would only have a 10% chance of getting pick one if the bottom 4 qualify, so I can't see it being a problem.

Orlando Magic in the NBA ended up with pick one in 1993 when they had one ball in a 66 ball lottery, so anything is possible. If the bottom 8 qualified I would be disappointed if say Brisbane or StKilda ended up with pick one this year after having a pretty good season. It could also mean that a side could finish last with one or two wins and not have a top pick. Until a couple of years ago that would have resulted in possibly pick 1 and 2 and certainly pick 1 and another in the top 5, supporters would be furious if their team had a shocking season and ended up with pick 5 while a team with 9 wins gets pick 1.

A lottery with only ten balls wouldn't be as exciting. With 30 balls it would feel more like powerball and I'd bet on the outcome. :D

12 9 6 3 or 4 3 2 1, all the same really. Either way it would be exciting!
 
I guess the key to a bottom 8 lottery would be working out the proportions fairly . You don't want the top half having too much chance of getting the top pick but you don't want it to weight it too heavily towards last place either.

Off the top of my head maybe something like

20 balls for 16th
16 for 15th
12 for 14th
8 for 13th
4 for 12th
3 for 11th
2 for 10th
1 for 9th

I'm sure some mathematically minded person (ie not me) could work out a better system with fair ratios for each teams position.
 
estibador said:
Btw Dom if you're going to have 12,9,6 and 3 balls you might as well just simplify it down to 4,3,2 and 1 balls. Or am I missing something?
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Have lots of balls. A cement truck full. And have them basketball size. ireckon bottom gets 1,200 balls, 2nd bottom 900 etc.

I do think the lottery is a good idea.
 
Brisbane and Adelaid winning yesterday were good results for us, because we are now 8 points behind 12th. Hopefully the sides above us can win a couple more games, that way we can win 3 more games and end up with pick 4 if carlton win another one.
 
With a fantasic Derby win like that I hope the "supporters" who think we should have tanked start learning more about the game.:confused:
 

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