Tasmania set to apply for a provisional AFL licence (aiming to enter competition by 2025)

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madmug

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I appreciate that, but the fact remains that Tassie was better placed than Qld in many respects, yet did not pursue the possibility at all.
Now that's their perogative, and they have every right to put health first, but by the same token, they can't expect that the AFL didn't take any notice.
The Victorian Government didn't take any notice of the 'needs' of the AFL, the 10 clubs nor the mass supporters. Whats the ramifications of that? Will the AFL get revenge?

No, me thinks the AFL have bigger issues & will be focussed on those.
 

Johnny Bananas

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The Victorian Government didn't take any notice of the 'needs' of the AFL, the 10 clubs nor the mass supporters. Whats the ramifications of that? Will the AFL get revenge?

No, me thinks the AFL have bigger issues & will be focussed on those.
It's not about getting revenge, it's about the opportunity that was there to curry favour with the AFL. Queensland took that opportunity instead and I predict they will receive favours from the AFL in future for it, starting with this year's grand final, maybe extending to things like covering the funding shortfall for the Brisbane Lions' planned training facility. Or maybe they'll get nothing at all, the point is they have a chance. If Gutwein thought the risk was greater than the reward, more power to him, it certainly isn't hurting his popularity.
 

madmug

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It's not about getting revenge, it's about the opportunity that was there to curry favour with the AFL. Queensland took that opportunity instead and I predict they will receive favours from the AFL in future for it, starting with this year's grand final, maybe extending to things like covering the funding shortfall for the Brisbane Lions' planned training facility. Or maybe they'll get nothing at all, the point is they have a chance. If Gutwein thought the risk was greater than the reward, more power to him, it certainly isn't hurting his popularity.
I guess we'll beg to differ.

We've bent over for the game VFL/AFL for decades. Given & contributed, for what? What 'favours' would they have bestowed that they haven't already 'given' us? You know, the honour of paying FIFO clubs, sending players, coaches, memberships to the AFL.

What else could they have done for us? ;)
 

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Jazny

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Exactly, the AFL does nothing for us. We should do nothing for them. I dont really know anything about basketball, but i will be watching NBL next year and im losing interest in AFL until we get a team.
 

Tasmanian saint

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Mate, you need to pull your head out of the sand with your paranoia. There is no con from me. I want to see a Tassie team in the AFL. Clearly to get a team representing Tasmania in any form is a step forward. Whatever happened in the past, is the past. Gold Coast had a reserves team a year or two before their proper real team in AFL. Stop being paranoid.
Completely different circumstances the Gold Coast already had a AFL license and a date they were joining the competition the vfl side was used as a lead in for the afl which is fine. We don’t have any promise of anything from the afl a vfl team will not achieve anything with out a afl team on the horizon apart from completely stripping our state league of all its quality players our last vfl team was very competitive on field and was getting crowds of upto 8,000 for some home games prior to the north alignment even that did nothing to push our case for a Afl side unless we have a timeframe for a license then the vfl side is a complete waste of time and will achieve nothing
 

Tasmanian saint

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If Tasmania had done what Qld did, and offered to host the AFL for long stretches, they would have curried a fair bit of favour with the AFL.
Put the shoe on the other foot the only thing we gain from fifo games is tourism dollars from travelling fans that wouldn’t be happening this season so in essence we would be doing it to help the afl out nothing else the afl have done nothing but screw Tasmania at every opportunity over the last couple decades they have completely screwed our local football through through there mismanagement so why in the world would Tasmania or our government want to do the AfL a favour
 

Tasmanian saint

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I appreciate that, but the fact remains that Tassie was better placed than Qld in many respects, yet did not pursue the possibility at all.
Now that's their perogative, and they have every right to put health first, but by the same token, they can't expect that the AFL didn't take any notice.
No one in Tasmania expects anything from the Afl down here and why should we feel obliged to help them!
 

Tasmanian saint

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I guess we'll beg to differ.

We've bent over for the game VFL/AFL for decades. Given & contributed, for what? What 'favours' would they have bestowed that they haven't already 'given' us? You know, the honour of paying FIFO clubs, sending players, coaches, memberships to the AFL.

What else could they have done for us? ;)
100% agree mate also the fact that the afl have spent hundreds of millions in Queensland over the last decade they may have felt a tad bit obliged to help the afl . the complete opposite situation to Tasmania I wouldn’t take to much notice of this jonny bananas 🍌 fool he seems to bob up on anything to do with Tasmania bringing nothing but negative comments!
 

NoobPie

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We've been sucking up to them for years and it's got us no where. Ball is in their court now. With a brand new NBL team coming next year (a sport that's quite popular here), they might lose Tassie for good if they don't start to respect us.

Is "sucking up" another way of saying "endlessly bleating"?

The bottom line is that there is no incentive for the AFL to give Tasmania a team. The benefits of having a Tassie team in the AFL flow overwhelmingly to Tasmania.

The "they might lose Tassie for good if they don't start to respect us" is quite cringingly confusing the cultural domination of Australian football in Tasmania with some kind of teenage first relationship

Here is the google trends for the last 4 years between the AFL, NRL, NBL and A-League in Tassie

1598416681406.png


In fact football is more popular in Tasmania than anywhere else

1598416975228.png



Good luck if you think having a tassie team in the NBL is going to make a dent in that.

The Tasmanian government taking a hard line during the Covid Pandemic, whatever the popularity in Tasmania, if anything is just going to alleviate political pressure on the AFL and put a stronger burden of proof on the introduction of a Tasmanian team
 

sherb

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Is "sucking up" another way of saying "endlessly bleating"?

The bottom line is that there is no incentive for the AFL to give Tasmania a team. The benefits of having a Tassie team in the AFL flow overwhelmingly to Tasmania.

The "they might lose Tassie for good if they don't start to respect us" is quite cringingly confusing the cultural domination of Australian football in Tasmania with some kind of teenage first relationship

Here is the google trends for the last 4 years between the AFL, NRL, NBL and A-League in Tassie

View attachment 945639

In fact football is more popular in Tasmania than anywhere else

View attachment 945640


Good luck if you think having a tassie team in the NBL is going to make a dent in that.

The Tasmanian government taking a hard line during the Covid Pandemic, whatever the popularity in Tasmania, if anything is just going to alleviate political pressure on the AFL and put a stronger burden of proof on the introduction of a Tasmanian team
The incentive to the AFL is giving an AFL heartland state an AFL team.

They are the "keepers of the code" remember. As such they have an obligation to look after the health of the game as a whole (not just the AFL competition itself). That's what they would be doing by giving Tassie its own side.

If they don't want the "keepers" responsibility, fine, a separate organization can be formed to take on the role.

The problem is that the AFL only cares about dollars, ratings, crowds, consumers, expansion etc - and not the health of the game overall. And they've conned many modern supporters into the same line of thinking.
 
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Jazny

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Giving Tasmania an AFL team perhaps? You know as well as I do that they aren't handed out like lollies, they require scratching the right backs. Giving help when it's needed most is a good way to get the right people pulling in your favour.
Yeah,, that would have happened. Im sure when they sit down to make a decision on the next AFL team, they will turn to each other and go "forget marketing, forget expansion, and TV rights. Remember that time when Tassie let us play a few games during lockdown? Let's do the right thing and give them a team" and they all hug and clap.
 

NoobPie

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The incentive to the AFL is giving an AFL heartland state an AFL team.

They are the "keepers of the code" remember. As such they have an obligation to look after the health of the game as a whole (not just the AFL competition itself). That's what they would be doing by giving Tassie its own side.

If they don't want the "keepers" responsibility, fine, a separate organization can be formed to take on the role.

The problem is that the AFL only cares about dollars, ratings, crowds, consumers, expansion etc - and not the health of the game overall. And they've conned many modern supporters into the same line of thinking.

And this is it. Just an appeal to sentiment.

Whether or not the AFL has done a complete, well rounded, well prioritised job as "the keeper of the code" and tending to "the health of the game overall", the assertion that this should matter-of-factly involve "giving Tassie its own side" is risible.

Who is to say that the current arrangements of 7 FIFO games aren't appropriate? It seems proportionate to the 2 FIFO games in the NT.

I am not against Tasmania having a team. I just think the focus on the AFL giving them one is based on silly arguments.
 

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sherb

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And this is it. Just an appeal to sentiment.

Whether or not the AFL has done a complete, well rounded, well prioritised job as "the keeper of the code" and tending to "the health of the game overall", the assertion that this should matter-of-factly involve "giving Tassie its own side" is risible.

Who is to say that the current arrangements of 7 FIFO games aren't appropriate? It seems proportionate to the 2 FIFO games in the NT.

I am not against Tasmania having a team. I just think the focus on the AFL giving them one is based on silly arguments.
It's not an appeal to sentiment, that is just rubbish.

The AFL has a responsibility to the health of the game in existing areas as well as expanding it. You can't seriously be disputing that. An AFL team in Tassie would be part of that responsibility.

FIFO games don't give the locals a team to support, unless you are lucky enough to be a supporter of one of the participating teams. The arrangement is basically a case of giving the peasants crumbs and expecting them to be grateful.

If you were a Collingwood supporter living in Tassie (I'm assuming you don't) would you rock along to a North vs Freo match or Hawthorn vs St Kilda match (or whatever similar matchups there are) on a regular basis? I know if I was still living there the novelty would have well and truly worn off years ago.

I'll put this to you - what incentive does the AFL need to put a team in Tassie then (given that was in your previous post)? In what circumstances would you be so gracious to agree to a side going in there?

You're not the first in this topic to profess your support (or not being against) for a Tassie team (as per bolded) but spend your time arguing against one by the way. A very odd stance to take.
 

madmug

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And this is it. Just an appeal to sentiment.

Whether or not the AFL has done a complete, well rounded, well prioritised job as "the keeper of the code" and tending to "the health of the game overall", the assertion that this should matter-of-factly involve "giving Tassie its own side" is risible.

Who is to say that the current arrangements of 7 FIFO games aren't appropriate? It seems proportionate to the 2 FIFO games in the NT.

I am not against Tasmania having a team. I just think the focus on the AFL giving them one is based on silly arguments.
Its actually based on a business case. But don't let that upset your train of thought. ;)

Its funny really. The AFL are the self appointed 'the keepers of the game' when it comes to the old VFL teams, but not, it seems, to anyone else.
 

NoobPie

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It's not an appeal to sentiment, that is just rubbish.

The AFL has a responsibility to the health of the game in existing areas as well as expanding it. You can't seriously be disputing that. An AFL team in Tassie would be part of that responsibility.

FIFO games don't give the locals a team to support, unless you are lucky enough to be a supporter of one of the participating teams. The arrangement is basically a case of giving the peasants crumbs and expecting them to be grateful.

If you were a Collingwood supporter living in Tassie (I'm assuming you don't) would you rock along to a North vs Freo match or Hawthorn vs St Kilda match (or whatever similar matchups there are) on a regular basis? I know if I was still living there the novelty would have well and truly worn off years ago.

I'll put this to you - what incentive does the AFL need to put a team in Tassie then (given that was in your previous post)? In what circumstances would you be so gracious to agree to a side going in there?

You're not the first in this topic to profess your support (or not being against) for a Tassie team (as per bolded) but spend your time arguing against one by the way. A very odd stance to take.
It is precisely an appeal to sentiment.

I do support a Tasmania team - it needs to be guaranteed or quasi guaranteed though

And I think the whining directed at the AFL is way off the mark
 

Johnny Bananas

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Yeah,, that would have happened. Im sure when they sit down to make a decision on the next AFL team, they will turn to each other and go "forget marketing, forget expansion, and TV rights. Remember that time when Tassie let us play a few games during lockdown? Let's do the right thing and give them a team" and they all hug and clap.
Little ray of sunshine, aren't you? Is this a tacit admission from you that Tasmania has nothing to offer in financial and commercial terms?

I'm not as harsh on Tasmania as that. I think there is a financial argument to make, and it would be heavily boosted by a state government that demonstrates it is prepared to back AFL games even in trying circumstances. That's the image they could have projected, of a government willing to work with the AFL and commit to financial support of a team for the long haul. An opportunity was missed there.

But by all means, go follow the NBL instead if you're so cynical and bitter.
 

madmug

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Little ray of sunshine, aren't you? Is this a tacit admission from you that Tasmania has nothing to offer in financial and commercial terms?

I'm not as harsh on Tasmania as that. I think there is a financial argument to make, and it would be heavily boosted by a state government that demonstrates it is prepared to back AFL games even in trying circumstances. That's the image they could have projected, of a government willing to work with the AFL and commit to financial support of a team for the long haul. An opportunity was missed there.

But by all means, go follow the NBL instead if you're so cynical and bitter.
'Tasmania' has backed Hawthorn for near 20 years. Is that long haul enough?

We have a history with the game, we've backed the game even when it was of little value to the actual game of AR in Tasmania. We've presented a sound business case.

Sucking up to the AFL to be a doormat yet again, sorry I mean an AFL 'Hub', is irrelevant IMHO.

I guess I'm saying Tasmania has nothing more to prove.
 

Johnny Bananas

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'Tasmania' has backed Hawthorn for near 20 years. Is that long haul enough?
It obviously isn't. I think it's been a double edged sword actually. The deal with Hawthorn demonstrated long ago that Tasmania is interested and will turn up to support a team, the problem is that the AFL saw it as a captive market after a while and were happy to let the situation continue, because he boat wasn't being rocked.

I'm certainly sympathetic to Tasmania feeling like they've been taken for granted, and so I think the government should have let the deal expire years ago, and certainly shouldn't renew it now. Since the deal was in place for this year and the investment has already been made to the venues, stepping up and being useful in a time of crisis wins a lot of credibility. But now nothing has changed in the AFLs minds, and I imagine they'll continue to take Tasmania for granted going forward.

We have a history with the game, we've backed the game even when it was of little value to the actual game of AR in Tasmania. We've presented a sound business case.
I agree.

I guess I'm saying Tasmania has nothing more to prove.
Of course it does. The AFL couldn't afford to ignore them if they had nothing more to prove.
 

Gigantor

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Going to a 19th team is a big step, it's not the sort of decision the AFL will take lightly. In fact, I doubt it will happen, but there was a small window there for Tassie to put its best foot forward, and it didn't step up.
Now a Northern state which already is favoured by the AFL, will continue to be favoured over Tassie.
If there was no real good reason previously to look favourably upon Tassie, there's even less good reason now.
I'm not sure why any one would see it any other way.
 

Jazny

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We don't care, we put the health of our old people over some fanciful idea that doing something for the AFL will eventually give us a team. It will either happen or it won't, we should kick Hawf and Norf out too and watch those bottom four sides fold and try and merge with Melbourne again.
 

madmug

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Going to a 19th team is a big step, it's not the sort of decision the AFL will take lightly. In fact, I doubt it will happen, but there was a small window there for Tassie to put its best foot forward, and it didn't step up.
Now a Northern state which already is favoured by the AFL, will continue to be favoured over Tassie.
If there was no real good reason previously to look favourably upon Tassie, there's even less good reason now.
I'm not sure why any one would see it any other way.
You really think so?

If so, & the AFL was really that petty & unprofessional then it wouldn't matter what we did or didn't do.

So the Premier showed some guts & told them to FK off. We had nothing to lose.

If he said yes, the AFL would walk all over us again, for no gain, again. The Premier would have had to go against his advice & thus lose huge credibility with the electorate.

Just remember, it was the AFL who announced the games in Hobart BEFORE the Premier had decided whether to allow the boarder to be open or not. IF he'd said yes, it would have looked like he had been bent over by the AFL.

Politically I don't think he had any option but to say no. Whether the advice was to open or not, he couldn't allow it to look like the AFL could dominate him.

The AFLs arrogance was there for all to see. Stupid.

I think he acted on medical advice anyway, but we'll never know.
 

BobbyMorri

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Going to a 19th team is a big step, it's not the sort of decision the AFL will take lightly. In fact, I doubt it will happen, but there was a small window there for Tassie to put its best foot forward, and it didn't step up.
Now a Northern state which already is favoured by the AFL, will continue to be favoured over Tassie.
If there was no real good reason previously to look favourably upon Tassie, there's even less good reason now.
I'm not sure why any one would see it any other way.
As you can tell by the 4 or so Tasmanians on this thread that the amount of faith we have in the AFL organisation is next to nil, even outright hostile. We have been promised a team from before the AFL was known as the VFL. We have been nice to the AFL for so so long. We have done a business case. Showcased our support. For what reward. a VFL team....FIFO games against Brisbane and Fremantle every year. Good old "you are the next team" quotes but no actual plan. A state league without a key region and which nearly collapsed while the AFL launched AFL X in front of a circus. Using AFL Tas as a step ladder for future promotions and being seen as more AFL than Tasmania. Why would this be any different? Why should we threaten our health, our borders, his political capital for an organisation which, in many of our eyes, has done nothing for us for so long and bordering on untrustful?

How about for once, the AFL takes the first step. Or how about I reverse this. If the AFL wanted goodwill here for a day like this, then perhaps they should have treated this state with a lot more respect than they have.

it is amazing what happens when an organisation takes the first step. The NBL had its pre-season comp here and one year later, they get a team funded by 2 mil a year by the government IIRC and a new stadium for 40-60 mil.
 

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