Tasmania set to apply for a provisional AFL licence (aiming to enter competition by 2025)

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Mr Taswegian

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May 25, 2019
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The Examiner news paper has got another article that further increases the North South divide in this site. The politicians here in Tasmania keep talking about how the North South divide is no longer a problem in Tasmania but I see clearly by all the media up here in the north that is clearly not the case. I can see this definitely causing problems for Tasmania's AFL chances and I believe this needs to stop, people up are in the north need to realise this can not be done without the South and that comes from a Northerner.We need to work together to make this happen because any obstacles put in its way will derail everything.
 

Walshawk

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The Examiner news paper has got another article that further increases the North South divide in this site. The politicians here in Tasmania keep talking about how the North South divide is no longer a problem in Tasmania but I see clearly by all the media up here in the north that is clearly not the case. I can see this definitely causing problems for Tasmania's AFL chances and I believe this needs to stop, people up are in the north need to realise this can not be done without the South and that comes from a Northerner.We need to work together to make this happen because any obstacles put in its way will derail everything.
Not good, but don’t reckon Gil will be spending too much time reading the local Launceston paper.
 

harmesy 37

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A rather ignorant take given that unlike NSW and specifically QLD, Tasmania are a traditional footy heartland with a state league being founded in 1879.

I can't be faaarked listing all the current players or the huge list of former Brownlow medalists/Coleman medalists and other past champions but please note these include current Blues players Levi Casboult/Liam Jones and past icons such as Peter Jones/Brett Crosswell.

Absolutely shameful of the AFL to grant operating licenses to GWS and the Suns ahead of a traditional AFL state that has been in constant decline for decades.

It's just criminal former clubs and leagues I played in and for (during the late 70's and 80's) are now defunct, with the remnants of one my former clubs (founded in 1905) now stored in four boxes in a mates garage...

This allowed to take place while the AFL morons try to sell the game into 'new markets' such as QLD where the locals are still getting used to the no offside rule and the reason for two extra conversion posts...

I get your passion. And I get your aim to preserve footy history - that is extremely admirable. I hope your mate can find an avenue to preserve that history. Once its gone, its gone.

Footy clubs and matches I have seen in Tasy include North Hobart (so much history) and I have been to a match at Devonport-also a great footy ground. It is 100% a great footy state. With that you will get no dispute from me.

What I don't want to see is further dilution of the draft. It was a painful process when GWS/Gold Coast came in as it prevented the rise of other clubs whilst these clubs were being built and got the pick of the best players. If a Tasmanian team involves an existing team that seems fair enough, but 19 teams is just a bit too much - especially when the NRL/soccer and rugby already take a big chunk of the overall sports market. They have a war chest as well.
 

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HPKS

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The Examiner news paper has got another article that further increases the North South divide in this site. The politicians here in Tasmania keep talking about how the North South divide is no longer a problem in Tasmania but I see clearly by all the media up here in the north that is clearly not the case. I can see this definitely causing problems for Tasmania's AFL chances and I believe this needs to stop, people up are in the north need to realise this can not be done without the South and that comes from a Northerner.We need to work together to make this happen because any obstacles put in its way will derail everything.
Mate the same media that portrayed the vaccines as death in a needle? The same media that promotes hysteria on a regular basis? My advice is switch off msm like a lot of younger people do these days. They don’t report the news they sell fear.
 

Kwality

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Actually, the AFL is the only league that has put substantial funds into stadium upgrades (unlike the NRL or A-League who have never contributed a cent to any stadium) e.g. in the example you gave, yes, the Qld gov't provided the largest sum, followed by the Feds, but the AFL still contributed $13.3 million -
The local Council (ratepayers money) kicked in $23m, Carrara is not a good example of upgrades in terms of Tas.
With Cricket appearing 'spoken for' at Bellerive, it would need to be be 'on board' IF a Stadium development was to be successful.
 

The_Wookie

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The dilution of the draft is the same discussion as the depth of the player pool, its real.
Its a manufactured shortage though - teams getting rid of anyone who turns 30 and chasing after untried 18 year olds, most of whom burn out in the first 3 years. Despite some improvement, theres still a large number of experienced state league players who would be a better fit than many of the young kids coming through.
 

Kwality

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Its a manufactured shortage though - teams getting rid of anyone who turns 30 and chasing after untried 18 year olds, most of whom burn out in the first 3 years. Despite some improvement, theres still a large number of experienced state league players who would be a better fit than many of the young kids coming through.
Rubbish, the AFL 'churn' is mandated,& its been with us for as long as I can remember. The choice was once about the best 600 players, its now the best 800.
Lets not quibble about the exact numbers, people who wouldnt get a game will now be regulars & they arent limited to any one club.
Whether its kids developing or 2nd tier stalwarts is moot.
 

deanc

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I get your passion. And I get your aim to preserve footy history - that is extremely admirable. I hope your mate can find an avenue to preserve that history. Once its gone, its gone.

Footy clubs and matches I have seen in Tasy include North Hobart (so much history) and I have been to a match at Devonport-also a great footy ground. It is 100% a great footy state. With that you will get no dispute from me.

What I don't want to see is further dilution of the draft. It was a painful process when GWS/Gold Coast came in as it prevented the rise of other clubs whilst these clubs were being built and got the pick of the best players. If a Tasmanian team involves an existing team that seems fair enough, but 19 teams is just a bit too much - especially when the NRL/soccer and rugby already take a big chunk of the overall sports market. They have a war chest as well.
Concern noted, but the dilution of draft talent from expansion teams is largely a myth!

For one thing our population growth has far out paced the number of teams since the AFL expanded nationally. Another in the AFL's increasing International programs and the fact a lot of talented kids are either crossing over from another sport and/or choosing AFL to pursue professionally.

Only counterpoint, which has nothing to do with expansion teams, is due to the sports evolving aerobic style with focus on speed and endurance at the top level, has resulted in clubs preferring to recruit supreme 'athletes' that play football, rather than 'footballers' with athletic ability. Accordingly a former No.1, but fat/lazy kid from Colac called Hodge, would be lucky to even qualify in todays overall draft..!
It's also no surprise the increasing amount of later round draft pick players winning club B&F's in recent times vs former 1st rounders...
 
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The_Wookie

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Rubbish, the AFL 'churn' is mandated,& its been with us for as long as I can remember. The choice was once about the best 600 players, its now the best 800.
Lets not quibble about the exact numbers, people who wouldnt get a game will now be regulars & they arent limited to any one club.
Whether its kids developing or 2nd tier stalwarts is moot.
Its not the same though. the all youth all the time mantra clubs operate under wasnt a thing until the specialist under 18s comp was created. We ran a veterans allowance for years before it was disposed of. Clubs had access to reserves and under 19s that they ran and developed, they no longer do.
 

HPKS

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Its not the same though. the all youth all the time mantra clubs operate under wasnt a thing until the specialist under 18s comp was created. We ran a veterans allowance for years before it was disposed of. Clubs had access to reserves and under 19s that they ran and developed, they no longer do.
Your either up there contending with a battle hardened side, on the cusp of contending via youth, ready to move up the ladder via youth or rebuilding with youth. Atleast half the league is a development league these days & that’s being generous. The league lists are structured so different from the old days it’s not even comparable. I fully agree 100%.
 

BringBackTorps

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"The Tasmania challenge is one all clubs should meet
Peter Ryan

By Peter Ryan The Age August 25, 2021 — 11.49am


August 24, 2021, should be marked in modern football history as a red letter day for the game.
For the first time, the AFL has committed to clubs voting on whether a team based in Tasmania should be admitted to the competition.

Tasmania should have its own AFL team, not a joint venture.

Tasmania should have its own AFL team, not a joint venture.

That vote will occur at some stage early next year when the AFL’s funding model is more certain and the pathway out of the pandemic for clubs and the competition is (hopefully) clearer, with the return of crowds necessary to ease CEO and presidents’ minds.
Forget joint ventures or relocation. The easiest way forward is a standalone team.

The announcement should be celebrated as a major step forward for those who have pressed hard for a Tasmanian team, but much needs to be completed between now and when the vote occurs to create a platform of certainty for clubs voting on the issue.
Tasmania and the league must deliver on the assumptions the business case rested upon so the AFL – which has finally accepted the [Carter Report] vision of a team in the Apple Isle as good for the game – can sell that vision with confidence in the numbers.

Show me the money
Clearly a standalone team in Tasmania rests on annual government funding far into the future.
The number in the Carter report is $10 million per year from the state government, with AFL distributions at $11 million and then membership, merchandise, sponsorship and ticketing to carry the rest.

The league will need a guarantee that accessing that money won’t be an annual fight for cash with all the political implications that surround such commitments.
There is a strong argument – and Tasmania’s politicians are not ruling out the prospect – that legislation would be necessary to lock the state government’s contribution into place.

Colin Carter’s report made the case that a team in Tasmania would increase the talent pool.

Colin Carter’s report made the case that a team in Tasmania would increase the talent pool.

On the face of it, that would give the league the basis to tip in a similar amount each year via a re-aligned distribution model.
However, the AFL must dig into the devil in the detail to ensure future governments don’t give $10 million with one hand and then start clawing back money down the track through ancillary costs no one bothered to envisage at the time.

That will involve discussions on how clean stadiums will be for advertising and what contribution the team may be expected to make to the council for the lease and other parties for security, transport and police, variables that only become issues if they are loosely considered in the formation stage.

A place to call home
Where the team will play needs to be clarified too as the Premier Peter Gutwein’s initial discussions relate to upgrading UTAS Stadium in Launceston to hold between 25-30,000 people for a team based in Hobart.
The ideal scenario as outlined in the initial business case, is for a “clean sheet” roofed stadium at Macquarie Point on Hobart’s waterfront with capacity for 30,000 people that would work for spectators, players and broadcasters on those cold winter nights above the Southern Ocean.
Creating political cases for such stadiums is getting more difficult, particularly in a COVID-19 environment, but the AFL and Tasmanian government must establish a robust enough relationship to work towards this objective.

Again the proponents of a clean stadium will need to be wary, however, because although establishing trusts to run such stadiums seems good in theory, history suggests the need for such trusts to make profits means the biggest player in the stadium – the football club – eventually gets squeezed.
The AFL and clubs such as Geelong and the Gold Coast need to bring to life their experience running stadiums and getting government funding for stadium projects so Hobart’s stadium thrives and the potential social return on investment is well understood.

How deep is the talent pool?
One of the big questions existing clubs will ask will relate to talent acquisition and the pool of elite players available to each clubs. Colin Carter makes a sound argument based on Tasmania’s population and the business case’s proposition that a new team increases participation, and therefore the talent pool.

The clubs’ real concerns about the talent pool relate to the impact both COVID-19 lockdowns and what some see as the wanton restructuring of state and under-18 leagues along the eastern seaboard in recent years.

Therefore, the question about talent availability should be one directed at the AFL rather than Tasmania, whose local competitions have been decimated in the past decade. If the Tasmanians are given the right support, they have a fighting chance of playing their part in increasing the talent pool.
With professional cricketers, footballers and basketballers in a state that offers a great lifestyle, retention should be no bigger an issue in Tasmania than it is in South Australia or Western Australia.
Who won’t want to stay a few days longer in Hobart to visit Mona, Tasman National Park or Freycinet after they watch their team play down south?


Sign of the times: League branding at the Aurora stadium in Launceston.
Updated
AFL 2021


The case has been made and the numbers stack up.
The next six months to eight months will be vital to establishing the right foundation for a decision that will sit alongside AFLW as the best thing the league has done for decades (All my emphases)".
 
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Kwality

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Its not the same though. the all youth all the time mantra clubs operate under wasnt a thing until the specialist under 18s comp was created. We ran a veterans allowance for years before it was disposed of. Clubs had access to reserves and under 19s that they ran and developed, they no longer do.
IF there has been a change from recruiting kids, it has been as slow burn. We've been a national comp for long enough to know 'mature age' footballers are still the exception to the rule & still we refer to State League days to pick holes in our structure today.
I've not seen any analysis of success/failure rates & for me, its coloured by what I'm close to & thats WA/Subi in the 2nd tier. The likes of Podsiadly stand out from the crowd.

Unfortunately initiatives such as veterans allowances & rookie lists get abused by the clubs, when the AFL chooses not to stand firm as the 'white anting' weakens the intent.
 

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Walshawk

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Rubbish, the AFL 'churn' is mandated,& its been with us for as long as I can remember. The choice was once about the best 600 players, its now the best 800.
Lets not quibble about the exact numbers, people who wouldnt get a game will now be regulars & they arent limited to any one club.
Whether its kids developing or 2nd tier stalwarts is moot.
No really. In 1986 you had 12 teams with about 80% of those players coming from Victoria, and around 7% from Tasmania. You now have around 52% of Vic players over 18 teams. That is almost exactly the same number per teams, even though we have added 50% more teams. The pool of players from outside Victoria has filled those extra spots, so the standard of player remains unchanged. If you got a game then you would get a game now and vice versa.
 

Kwality

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No really. In 1986 you had 12 teams with about 80% of those players coming from Victoria, and around 7% from Tasmania. You now have around 52% of Vic players over 18 teams. That is almost exactly the same number per teams, even though we have added 50% more teams. The pool of players from outside Victoria has filled those extra spots, so the standard of player remains unchanged. If you got a game then you would get a game now and vice versa.
Starting in the VFL days would certainly be interesting given the strength of both the SA & WA Origin teams of that era.
Has anyone ever done a graph to record the influence of Vic footy on the national comp *?

I look at Queensland as the best indicator of what expansion of our game nationally can offer.
Tasmania is heartland that appears to have been routed & is now underperforming its best in the player pool. It can be returned to the days when Tasmanians were a strength for clubs lucky enough to have them on their list, lesser lights (sic) such as Darrin Pritchard. :'(

* for anyone dinkum to know, see here as a start: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/list-sizes.1275838/
 
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sherb

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I get your passion. And I get your aim to preserve footy history - that is extremely admirable. I hope your mate can find an avenue to preserve that history. Once its gone, its gone.

Footy clubs and matches I have seen in Tasy include North Hobart (so much history) and I have been to a match at Devonport-also a great footy ground. It is 100% a great footy state. With that you will get no dispute from me.

What I don't want to see is further dilution of the draft. It was a painful process when GWS/Gold Coast came in as it prevented the rise of other clubs whilst these clubs were being built and got the pick of the best players. If a Tasmanian team involves an existing team that seems fair enough, but 19 teams is just a bit too much - especially when the NRL/soccer and rugby already take a big chunk of the overall sports market. They have a war chest as well.
Maybe a Tasmanian team would get talent flowing from Tassie again?
 

sherb

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A rather ignorant take given that unlike NSW and specifically QLD, Tasmania are a traditional footy heartland with a state league being founded in 1879.

I can't be faaarked listing all the current players or the huge list of former Brownlow medalists/Coleman medalists and other past champions but please note these include current Blues players Levi Casboult/Liam Jones and past icons such as Peter Jones/Brett Crosswell.

Absolutely shameful of the AFL to grant operating licenses to GWS and the Suns ahead of a traditional AFL state that has been in constant decline for decades.

It's just criminal former clubs and leagues I played for and in (during the late 70's and 80's) are now defunct, with the remnants of one my former clubs (founded in 1905) now stored in four boxes in a mates garage...

This allowed to take place while the AFL morons try to sell the game into 'new markets' such as QLD where the locals are still getting used to the no offside rule and the reason for two extra conversion posts...

View attachment 1216409
Don't forget that the 4 club warrior Craig Davis, cousin of Brent Crosswell, was originally recruited by the Blues. He only left because of a serious eye injury that he sustained which put his career in jeopardy, but North picked him up.

100 game ruckman Maurie Sankey played 100 games for the Blues by the age of 25, before he was tragically killed in a car accident. Berkley Cox also played 100 games for the Blues around the same era.

Michael Young played in the 79 Premiership side. Tony Pickett played 4 seasons in the late 70s. Mitch Robinson is Tasmanian. And so on.

It is really disappointing to see the lack of acknowledgment of Tasmania's contribution to the clubs of some posters here. As if, it's been okay over the years to take what talent we can from you, but we don't feel any obligation in return.
 
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footytalk_AU

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One of the biggest issues ie Talent Pool is not that the pool doesn’t exist in Tasmania, but that they are leaving for sports that allow them to represent their state or go on further (Cricket, Basketball etc etc). With a Tassie team more kids will come through the system. Talent pool is never the issue. It’s access to pathways/elite coaching. Even look at Victoria, where kids struggle to develop elite skills if they can’t afford Private Schooling.
 

threenewpadlocks

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Its a manufactured shortage though - teams getting rid of anyone who turns 30 and chasing after untried 18 year olds, most of whom burn out in the first 3 years. Despite some improvement, theres still a large number of experienced state league players who would be a better fit than many of the young kids coming through.
It's not so much about talent pool the point that's trying to be made but the fact that it depresses the cyclical nature of bad teams getting good picks. Bad teams like Brisbane who had 4 wins in 2011 got the 12th or so best draft prospect in Billy Longer (pick 8 + Treloar, Shiel, Cameron prelisting, minidraft influence etc). only when they would have had the 2nd best player without them and would have been able to get a Coniglio etc. in their team, rather than being bad for the next 5-6 years and a basket case that the AFL had to fix. On the other hand teams like Sydney and Hawthorn, whose picks were already bad so moving them down a dozen or so more didn't really make a difference. Moving from pick 2 to 12 a lot more damaging than moving from pick 15 to 30, clealry.

The idea being is that if Tassie come in, they can't do the same tihng as it will lock other teams down at the bottom with them too.
 

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