Tasmania set to apply for a provisional AFL licence (aiming to enter competition by 2025)

Walshawk

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Would be a good opportunity to transition the season to an 18 round H & A system with every team playing every other team once too (alternating years between home and away fixtures). Will be the closest thing we've seen to a fair competition.
Why would you want less games. Less games would suck.
 

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madmug

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I swear every day on BF someone with no clue about the Gold Coast makes sweeping declarations as though they're an expert. No "good times" have rolled. The Gold Coast has never had a winner to back, in any sport besides motor racing. Every team gets bigger crowds when they're doing well and smaller crowds when they're not. Richmond certainly wouldn't have got 75 000 to a game against an interstate team back in 2006 when they were struggling. And this is especially true for Queensland, which is a bandwagon state in terms of supporting any sport.

When you consider all that, why would Gold Coast be getting big crowds? The fact they're regularly getting crowds over 10 000 with a horrendous team in rugby league territory is impressive. It shows they have a number of hardcore supporters, probably stemming from the strong football culture in local clubs like Southport, Labrador etc.

You're also clearly ignorant of the smaller stuff too, if you think they hand out lots of free tickets. They hand out barely any of them, especially to adults. Just talk to a regular Suns match goer instead of making uninformed assumptions, there are plenty of them on BF who can tell you the facts. Plus the ground can be very annoying to get to with its lack of parking and distance from any population centre. That limits crowds too, and it will until the government pull their finger out and provide adequate public transport or parking.
It hardly seems like fertile RL territory either. The GC has chewed through a few RL clubs as well.

So if its not really generational, but they'll only go if they're winning, where's the longevity in that?
 

madmug

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You honestly think if your lot get flogged for 9 years in a row you will be packing them in?

I guarantee they'll pack 'em in on day one.

Longer term they'll be up & down a bit, no doubt.

This IS a footy state. The footy culture, although dented some what, already exists here. You don't have to build it, or hope to build it.
 

Johnny Bananas

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It hardly seems like fertile RL territory either. The GC has chewed through a few RL clubs as well.
Once again, no winners to back, and a stadium that is well connected to Brisbane but poorly connected to the rest of the Gold Coast.

So if its not really generational, but they'll only go if they're winning, where's the longevity in that?
You're making a false assumption. I've explained to you have they have a bedrock support of close to 10 000 fans, and this will be generational. Nobody should be expecting more than that from a new team in Queensland that has struggled on the field. You seem to have the perspective of someone who has grown up and lived most of their life in Aussie rules heartland, and doesn't understand the northern states in general and Queensland in particular. This state has a few diehards for a lot of things, but won't back a perennial loser. That's one reason I'll always have some respect for St Kilda, their fans still turn up despite very little success in their existence. They wouldn't have survived in Queensland.
 
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Tasmanian saint

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It hardly seems like fertile RL territory either. The GC has chewed through a few RL clubs as well.

So if its not really generational, but they'll only go if they're winning, where's the longevity in that?
100 % agree mate don’t think I’ve ever herd anybody repeat the same point over and over again as Johnny Bananas 😂
 

madmug

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Once again, no winners to back, and a stadium that is well connected to Brisbane but poorly connected to the rest of the Gold Coast.


You're making a false assumption. I've explained to you have they have a bedrock support of close to 10 000 fans, and this will be generational. Nobody should be expecting more than that from a new team in Queensland. You seem to have the perspective of someone who has grown up and lived most of their life in Aussie rules heartland, and doesn't understand the northern states in general and Queensland in particular. This state has a few diehards for a lot of things, but won't back a perennial loser.
As a matter of interest I've worked a few years in each of Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane. About 12years in all, with regular trips back to Tassie for work & holidays, catching up with local footy & my family & friends. In each I watched AFL footy & local footy. I had lots of workmates, many of whom attended local & AFL/NRL games. I went to quite a few games, AFL, NRL, VFA, QAFL, SFL. So I had a reasonable feel of where footy was at that time. You learn a lot when having a beer & talking to people about footy & stuff.

Although back in Tassie for 20yrs now, I still remain in contact with some of those guys & have been over on holidays a few times & caught up with some of them. They nearly all lament the demise of local footy. Some are dyed in the wool supporters of Lions & Swans & go regularly no matter what the ladder position is. Some still go to local games.

So I think I have some idea at least.
 

madmug

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And yet you seem to have little understanding about the Gold Coast and their support of the AFL. Perhaps you didn't learn as much as you think you did.
None of us do really.

Don't make the assumption that I don't want any teams to fail. It just seems some places get the silver spoon treatment.

You value things more if you have to work for them.
 

Johnny Bananas

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Don't make the assumption that I don't want any teams to fail. It just seems some places get the silver spoon treatment.
This is confusing. So you do want teams to fail? That's what I'm reading here. I didn't assume that, I was simply explaining why your assumptions about the Gold Coast were incorrect.

It sounds like you're quite resentful that other cities have more people and businesses than anywhere in Tasmania, and that the AFL wants to market to them. But capitalists all want to hawk their goods to the most people possible, this isn't a new phenomenon. I'm supportive of a Tasmanian team and think it should happen soon, but it has to be proven to stack up financially, part of which is ensuring there is enough support. I imagine people in the NT would be no less enthusiastic at the prospect of their own AFL team, but that'll never happen, it would never make financial sense.
 

telsor

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This is confusing. So you do want teams to fail? That's what I'm reading here. I didn't assume that, I was simply explaining why your assumptions about the Gold Coast were incorrect.

It sounds like you're quite resentful that other cities have more people and businesses than anywhere in Tasmania, and that the AFL wants to market to them. But capitalists all want to hawk their goods to the most people possible, this isn't a new phenomenon. I'm supportive of a Tasmanian team and think it should happen soon, but it has to be proven to stack up financially, part of which is ensuring there is enough support. I imagine people in the NT would be no less enthusiastic at the prospect of their own AFL team, but that'll never happen, it would never make financial sense.
Don't bother.

I've pointed this stuff out any number of times, and just get told I hate Tasmania or something...

70-80% of the 'give Tas a team' arguments are just sentiment that applies equally to any regional 'football' area. (and many of the rest are meaningless ... 'but we're a state'...big deal ).


In the end, it'll come down to $$$. That's money the AFL gets, not what Tas gets, and the case there is tight at best (and the further you look into the future, the worse it probably gets).

If this provisional case can prove otherwise, then more power too them, although even if they do, I wonder at the benefit of applying for a provisional licence when those who would be issuing such a licence (the AFL) don't seem to have said there is one available.
 

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madmug

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This is confusing. So you do want teams to fail? That's what I'm reading here. I didn't assume that, I was simply explaining why your assumptions about the Gold Coast were incorrect.

It sounds like you're quite resentful that other cities have more people and businesses than anywhere in Tasmania, and that the AFL wants to market to them. But capitalists all want to hawk their goods to the most people possible, this isn't a new phenomenon. I'm supportive of a Tasmanian team and think it should happen soon, but it has to be proven to stack up financially, part of which is ensuring there is enough support. I imagine people in the NT would be no less enthusiastic at the prospect of their own AFL team, but that'll never happen, it would never make financial sense.
I'm quite able to discuss my disappointment over how blessed one place is over another, especially given the situation. BF is about discussion after all. More people doesn't seem to have helped, nor businesses when looking at the GC balance sheet. So good luck to 'the next generation'.

The AFL's rude & arrogant dismissal of Tasmania was just that. Those 2 c&^%s have gone. left the mess for others to fix.

I simply point out the obvious history of sports clubs. If it gets down to only supporting already successful teams, then the GC is in for a long sad trip.

Its not good for the game to have such a drag on the competition so one hopes they do pick up & show the potential people keep talking about.

I have said I believe GWS has a better chance of success. At least internally they seem to have a better culture in place. I could never figure why the GC seems such a mess internally for so long. They started at the same time by the AFL itself. Anyway GWS is in large established, stable area. Its a huge area that doesn't have a history of large crowds at sports events. Never the less I'm sure it'll go ok. With GC it seems all about hoping it'll succeed. For the betterment of the game, I hope it does.
 

Guido

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Main questions.

Are they viable? They'll probably have 30k members from Launceston and Hobart, stadiums that will sell out (demand exceeding supply typically equates to higher revenue per member), ready to go sponsors, and if the government is willing to make a 25, 30 year commitment to tipping in the sponsorship money currently going to Hawks/North directly into the new club, then yes, IMO they're viable and should be given a shot.

19 team comp - I'd probably just add Canberra as well and go with a 20 team comp for the long haul. However I'd have much more concern with long term viability of Canberra, especially if it doesn't have the state gov support that Tassie would have.

But if not, a bye a week is manageable.

Will it dilute the comp? On average, one player from every club's starting 18 will be poached, and will be replaced by player 23 on that list. Given your typical list will have 5-6 guys out of form or injured at any point, I look at it as a non critical argument against. Looking back, I don't think the game was of a higher general quality under a 16 team comp 10-15 years ago than it is now.

And I actually have a theory that youngsters get developed earlier and to higher ceilings with the more list spots available than they otherwise would.

It's another code, but I look at the elite soccer players developed in a 14, 15 or 16 team NSL in the 90s (Culina, Viduka, Bresciano, Grella, Schwarzer, Emerton, Simunic), and so many of them simply wouldn't have got the development/ minutes/ exposure at the top level as 17/18/19 year olds and developed into the great players they did in an 8 or 10 team A-League in the last 15 years (with games on the line, coaches will typically go with the more physcially developed, battlehardened 24-29 year old over the developing youngster, to the detriment of the kid's development/ceiling).

Might not apply to footy, but just an alternative view to more clubs/list spots across a league automatically = worse outcomes.

TL; DR: I'm 100% on board for them to be admitted.
 

RedmanWasHere

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Professor Knowall

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Just noticed this posted on the 'Introductions Board' by a brand new poster - seemingly by someone on the bid team (perhaps Nick himself?). Unfortunately it won't get that many views being on that board but at least they're trying-

Yesterday at 12:31 PM
We need your support for a TASMANIAN AFL & AFLW TEAM. 1 minute to SIGN UP - IT’S FREE at unitedwestand.com.au

The home of Baldock, Hudson, Richo, both Riewoldts and countless other footy legends is making a push to finally have its own teams in the AFL and AFLW. But first, we need to prove we have the support of the community. We need your help.

Attachments
 

BringBackTorps

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1. Peter Gordon, Footscray President, on 19.3.19, called for the introduction of a 19th team in Tasmania- AND a 20th team elsewhere.
I only have just become aware of his comments in the Herald Sun- & am not aware of any other senior AFL figures being so "outspoken/bullish" on this expansion issue.

There has been much speculation that the next AFL Broadcast Rights $, from 2023, may not be as strong as the last, due to the general rating's decline (of sporting & non-sporting programs) in all FTA/Foxtel ratings; & uptake in ratings of "less profitable" Kayo.
One would assume that senior AFL figures would only comment very cautiously, at least publicly, re expansion- particularly to 20 teams. A big call by P. Gordon- perhaps he has some "insights" into the AFL Executive & Commision's views


Behind a paywall- can anyone open this?

Alternatively, Peter Gordons' comments re new 19th & 20 th teams can be found here, in The West: Also behind a paywall- can anyone open this?



2. On a different issue in the Melb. mass-circulation Herald Sun a few days ago, I understand there was an Editorial supporting the imminent introduction of a 19th team, Tasmania, into the AFL.
The Murdoch Press/Herald Sun are pro Tasmanian entry; & are pushing strongly for a 19th team in Tasmania. This can be expected for their Tasmanian media- but not, necessarily, for Melbourne media. They are usually, but not always, adept at "reading the public's mood".

Can anyone post the Editorial here?

EDIT:
Herald Sun Editorial supporting 19th team in Tasmania was in yesterday's H./Sun- Sat. 7.9.19
 
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Professor Knowall

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The pro-Tasmanian editorial was in yesterday's HS (which I read at a local hamburger cafe). Unfortunately I can't access it on-line. I agree that any 20th team looks unlikely in the short/medium term (within the next 5-10 years).
 

Aucklander

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Western Bulldogs boss Peter Gordon believes the AFL should consider expanding to 19 or 20 teams.
The Dogs president has backed the formation of a stand-alone Tasmanian club and is adamant the $200 million Gold Coast Suns “will come good” eventually.

A 20th AFL team could be established in Adelaide or Perth, he said.

“I’d like to see the competition expand again,” Gordon told the Herald Sun.

“In the NFL there are 32 teams and in the NBA and Major League Baseball there are 30. Australian football and the AFL and Tasmania are crying out for a Tasmanian team.”

A move to 20 clubs could open the door to a more pure fixture in which teams play each other once in the home and away season.

But Gordon said a rolling bye in a 19-team competition would also have benefits.

“The best model for growing the game is to support all of these clubs, including the Gold Coast Suns, and the people who volunteer like (president) Tony Cochrane and his board do,” Gordon said.

Asked whether he supported making a Tasmanian team the 19th in the competition, Gordon said: “Yeah, I do. And I think it’s a matter that ought to be legitimately canvassed by a future AFL commission.

“I don’t mean to cut across any of the good work that Hawthorn or North Melbourne are doing in that space.

“But when you see the continued cries for help of local footy clubs in Tasmania, when you look at the history of what Tasmania has contributed to football in the past 100 years and you think about the best ways to reinvigorate and assist that state and junior footy in that state, it’s certainly something that the AFL commission should consider.”

Regarding the location of a 20th team, Gordon said: “I think Adelaide and Perth will both have sufficient scale, population and passion to come under consideration for a third club in the future.

“But the one stand out at the moment is Tasmania. I believe they are entitled to their own team.”
 

BringBackTorps

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^
Herald Sun "...But it is time for a home-state club....If the numbers add up, now is their time".







Most, probably, believe the AFL is "out of time" in its excuses not to agree to, & plan for, an imminent stand-alone, financially sound Tasmanian 19th club in the AFL- to restore the traditional, glorious Tasmanian assembly line of champions.






The AFL seems likely to expand to a 19th team in Tasmania by c. 2025- & later, a 20th club/10 games pw must inevitably occur.
(By c. 2035, will GWS regularly have lock-out games- therefore, South Sydney Canberra Cannons- or 'Burra's?)
Many will be closely analysing/predicting/denouncing the Expansion Of The AFL Empire- is it "to be, or not to be" a success; or the AFL's financial demise, its "Stalingrad".
Many NRL officials & RL commentators, c. 2011, said the creation of GWS will be the "AFL's Vietnam".



 
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BringBackTorps

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Sydney 2GB Radio R. Greenwood Program- John Stanley filling in. Money Matters Program 4.9.19

In this podcast, J. Stanley, a RL fan & expert, & finance expert, speaks to GWS CEO D. Mathews.

Matthews told Stanley that the 9th game pw (created by entry of GWS & GC) "...9th game is valued at about $60,000,000 per year, so they're actually making money off the investment (ie AFL funding pa, for the 2 expansion clubs- my words)...".

I was not aware, prior to this podcast, of any AFL Executive ever specifying what the 9th game pw delivered to the AFL in Broadcast Rights $, & other funds- but now we know.
Does anyone know if an AFL executive has, before, ever publicly disclosed the specific value of the 9th game pw?

I have included this here- as it strengthens "the hand"/negotiating strength of Tasmania, seeking a 2025 entry into the AFL (& there will be the inevitable 20th team sometime later created).
By adding Tasmania as a 19th team (despite its small population, & not being an A Grade advertising market), its entry will directly contribute to a 20th AFL team in the future/10 broadcast games pw. Tasmania is significantly adding to AFL funds eventually.

(For GWS, go to 51 minutes 25 seconds mark)


I have included both,they are IDENTICAL. I'm not certain, however, how long each podcast will remain on their respective sites.


(then click on podcast of "Giants"- Dave Matthews Money News)

It is also my understanding that the GWS obtained significant support from sponsors, after they announced they intended to have an AFLW team. GWS has approx. $27,000,000 private sponsorship pa- & many sponsors value very highly "the female demographic", which can be advertised on a national level, through the AFLW. Tasmania, fast track your own AFLW team also!
 
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