Tasmania set to apply for a provisional AFL licence (aiming to enter competition by 2025)

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Johnny Bananas

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Unless Victoria's population growth is 10/18ths of Australia's total population growth, then the Melbourne market is getting more overrepresented, not less.
It's not as simple as that. Some of that population growth is going to places that don't have a team right now (and won't for the foreseeable future) meaning the increase in those areas is irrelevant in terms of representation. Also, a population increase in Melbourne is more valuable to the game than an increase in Sydney, because the culture is much more geared towards AF, meaning it's much easier for migrants to be sucked into the AF orbit.

When you scale for these two things, perhaps Melbourne isn't overrepresented much, or not at all. Would you seriously argue Brisbane is underrepresented in terms of the appetite of the market for AF? Brisbane has 1/8 of total population growth in Australia, but there's no way in hell we have 1/8 of the nation's interest in AF. Melbourne is probably overrepresented in a direct comparison to Perth, but I've heard over and over from Perthlings that there's no appetite for a third team, so it's pretty irrelevant how represented they are.
 

madmug

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It's not as simple as that. Some of that population growth is going to places that don't have a team right now (and won't for the foreseeable future) meaning the increase in those areas is irrelevant in terms of representation. Also, a population increase in Melbourne is more valuable to the game than an increase in Sydney, because the culture is much more geared towards AF, meaning it's much easier for migrants to be sucked into the AF orbit.

When you scale for these two things, perhaps Melbourne isn't overrepresented much, or not at all. Would you seriously argue Brisbane is underrepresented in terms of the appetite of the market for AF? Brisbane has 1/8 of total population growth in Australia, but there's no way in hell we have 1/8 of the nation's interest in AF. Melbourne is probably overrepresented in a direct comparison to Perth, but I've heard over and over from Perthlings that there's no appetite for a third team, so it's pretty irrelevant how represented they are.
Having just 2 clubs in Perth may suit the vested positions of the supporters & officials of those two, but whats best for the game? What about the best interests for WA kids getting a chance in the AFL draft? What about maximising attendances & commercial interests. Even maximising the use of the new stadium they have.

WA3 & Tas1.;)
 

Rob

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It's not as simple as that. Some of that population growth is going to places that don't have a team right now (and won't for the foreseeable future) meaning the increase in those areas is irrelevant in terms of representation. Also, a population increase in Melbourne is more valuable to the game than an increase in Sydney, because the culture is much more geared towards AF, meaning it's much easier for migrants to be sucked into the AF orbit.
You're right, but that doesn't mean Melbourne's growth (over a longer term) is even close to justifying that many teams, because any growth is split (at least) 10 ways.
 

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Professor Knowall

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You're right, but that doesn't mean Melbourne's growth (over a longer term) is even close to justifying that many teams, because any growth is split (at least) 10 ways.
Actually, looking at those ABS projections, assuming Victoria's 10 clubs remain, then WA should (in theory) have either 3 or 4, SA stays at 2 and Tassie is a bit over represented with 1. Of course, there are inherent advantages in having long established historic existing clubs compared to starting up a brand new club (let alone 2) in a city with 2 pre-existing clubs.
 

Kwality

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Having just 2 clubs in Perth may suit the vested positions of the supporters & officials of those two, but whats best for the game? What about the best interests for WA kids getting a chance in the AFL draft? What about maximising attendances & commercial interests. Even maximising the use of the new stadium they have.

WA3 & Tas1.;)
Understand your view of the WA market, its always over represented in terms of the player pool.
Most West Australians cant see a new club being viable, as distinct from being vested interests. Note that the current WA footy model involves WAFC ownership of the licences & $millions have gone back into WA footy from that model. Proponents of another side pay scant respect to who funds the losses & even less respect/ignore the WA business model.

I reject the idea WA kids miss out currently, hark back to mid season draft ...

I'm no fan of more sides because, because .... more is not necessarily better, see Melbourne. Tas, YES !!

Maximising attendances, most games at Optus arent sell outs, if you want to take your kids to the footy you can.

As for ground utilisation, its time H & A as a concept got the sars, its a relic of the State League days & hasnt been true to itself even in Vic since the 60s, 50 years on & its regarded by many (generally the self interested) as a doctrine of faith. There is oversupply in Melbourne, there is demand in Perth, but the AFL ignores the commercial interests.
 
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Kwality

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You're right, but that doesn't mean Melbourne's growth (over a longer term) is even close to justifying that many teams, because any growth is split (at least) 10 ways.
& historically the BIG clubs attract the following. I well remember the claims that North would be big based on the 90s & that wasnt based on population growth.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Understand your view of the WA market, its always over represented in terms of the player pool.
Most West Australians cant see a new club being viable, as distinct from being vested interests. Note that the current WA footy model involves WAFC ownership of the licences & $millions have gone back into WA footy from that model. Proponents of another side pay scant respect to who funds the losses & even less respect/ignore the WA business model.

I reject the idea WA kids miss out currently, hark back to mid season draft ...

I'm no fan of more sides because, because .... more is not necessarily better, see Melbourne. Tas, YES !!

Maximising attendances, most games at Optus arent sell outs, if you want to take your kids to the footy you can.

As for ground utilisation, its time H & A as a concept got the sars, its a relic of the State League days & hasnt been true to itself even in Vic since the 60s, 50 years on & its regarded by many (generally the self interested) as a doctrine of faith. There is oversupply in Melbourne, there is demand in Perth, but the AFL ignores the commercial interests.
Noone is agreeing to forcing Vic clubs to play home games in wa
 

Kwality

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Noone is agreeing to forcing Vic clubs to play home games in wa
The old home game concept, e.g the Saints play one in China (tried NZ), the Tiges, Hawks, North, Melbourne - come on, the AFL wont allocate one to Perth or Adelaide, its OK to play the GF at the G when you earn every other final location ..... there is demand in Perth, oversupply in Melbourne ..... some inconsistency there Ned.
 

JohnZ

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6 new teams, 2 divisions of 12 teams. Relegation system to switch bottom 4 of div 1 with top 4 of div 2. Makes the 22 game season valid again (full H+A) plus it gives an additional 3 games per week to sell to FTA/Netflix/Foxtel

New teams:
Hobart, Launceston, SA3, WA3, Canberra and Auckland.
 

Ned_Flanders

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The old home game concept, e.g the Saints play one in China (tried NZ), the Tiges, Hawks, North, Melbourne - come on, the AFL wont allocate one to Perth or Adelaide, its OK to play the GF at the G when you earn every other final location ..... there is demand in Perth, oversupply in Melbourne ..... some inconsistency there Ned.
You say there is demand in WA, but you veto a third team

You're a hypocrite Kwal

I would genuinely stop supporting AFL if we only had eight home games while you get 14 (because you will be able to attend all of those, good luck attending a cats/dons/pies home game if youre not AFL/MCC)
 

Professor Knowall

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The pledge number has just passed the 60,000 landmark! Given the original target was 50,000 then this first phase of the Tasmanian Club project must be marked as a big success. Now for the financials to come together ...
 

Kwality

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You say there is demand in WA, but you veto a third team

You're a hypocrite Kwal

I would genuinely stop supporting AFL if we only had eight home games while you get 14 (because you will be able to attend all of those, good luck attending a cats/dons/pies home game if youre not AFL/MCC)
Veto hardly, make the case. The comp does not need a team in WA bleeding money as it will. Give it to Tas, not that they'll need it.

As for home games, you need to get your head around travel, things changed as far back as the VFL days ... the Tiges to the G, South to Sydney then the close of Waverley, Windy Hill, Vic Park but :'( the same old ... the inequity of the finals was first addressed after the 1990 finals series, we've made progress but ... fighting a good fight?

good luck attending a cats/dons/pies home game if youre not AFL/MCC) ... .......... 2019, biggest H&A crowd was 92k, there is room if you want to go ... harder to get to an Eagles game?

I'd suggest Ned, you are well aware of the inequities of H&A in the national comp, but the addressing them is not palatable. :)
 

Ned_Flanders

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Veto hardly, make the case. The comp does not need a team in WA bleeding money as it will.

As for home games, you need to get your head around travel, things changed as far back as the VFL days ... the Tiges to the G, South to Sydney then the close of Waverley, Windy Hill, Vic Park but :'( the same old ... the inequity of the finals was first addressed after the 1990 finals series, we've made progress but ... fighting a good fight?

good luck attending a cats/dons/pies home game if youre not AFL/MCC) ... .......... 2019, biggest H&A crowd was 92k, there is room if you want to go ... harder to get to an Eagles game?

I'd suggest Ned, you are well aware of the inequities of H&A in the national comp, but the addressing them is not palatable. :)
I'm not AFL or MCC and I'm too ******* old to join the queue ;)

You want it both ways for obvious reasons. You say wa3 will lose money, but Vic clubs must be forced to play home games in WA because there isn't enough footy in WA.

Make up your mind, or is this just a blatant troll ;)
 

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Kwality

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I'm not AFL or MCC and I'm too ******* old to join the queue ;)

You want it both ways for obvious reasons. You say wa3 will lose money, but Vic clubs must be forced to play home games in WA because there isn't enough footy in WA.

Make up your mind, or is this just a blatant troll ;)
Sorry to tell you my grandkids are on the MCC books. I'm in the far queue, GA standing room & enjoy.

North/the Dogs/the Saints need a crowd from its opposition to make $money, play the game in Perth not Melbourne, yep someone travels more, we do now & thats fair ... so WA clubs play at home 14 times say, still less than Vic clubs.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Sorry to tell you my grandkids are on the MCC books. I'm in the far queue, GA standing room & enjoy.

North/the Dogs/the Saints need a crowd from its opposition to make $money, play the game in Perth not Melbourne, yep someone travels more, we do now & thats fair ... so WA clubs play at home 14 times say, still less than Vic clubs.
Pies and co get SFA standing room. That's the point. Most of these games it's the members or AFL/MCC that have the gaps

Fwiw I can't remember the last time I rocked up for any of the six bigger clubs as a ga in Melbourne

So please tell me how me playing Essendon is a home game, when I can't even attend as a ha16 member?
 

Kwality

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Pies and co get SFA standing room. That's the point. Most of these games it's the members or AFL/MCC that have the gaps

Fwiw I can't remember the last time I rocked up for any of the six bigger clubs as a ga in Melbourne

So please tell me how me playing Essendon is a home game, when I can't even attend as a ha16 member?
Benny a magician, fixed the finances, get him to find you a seat ... those bandwagoneers @ Richmond. I do understand why you are so confused over the difference between a home & an away ground is, you havent had a home game in 50+ years, how hard is that.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Benny a magician, fixed the finances, get him to find you a seat ... those bandwagoneers @ Richmond. I do understand why you are so confused over the difference between a home & an away ground is, you havent had a home game in 50+ years, how hard is that.
our home ground is the mcg, just we share it

fwiw wce fans have convinced me the only way the league will be fair for wa teams is if they break away. congrats, you have made me join that group, because im sick of it

if you dont think any flag won by a vic club is worthy, make your own league
 

Kwality

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our home ground is the mcg, just we share it

fwiw wce fans have convinced me the only way the league will be fair for wa teams is if they break away. congrats, you have made me join that group, because im sick of it

if you dont think any flag won by a vic club is worthy, make your own league
Sadly that attitude is not in the best interests of the game IMHO. We will continue to play by the rules of the day. We will continue to make our views known, recognising many will try to keep their current advantages.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Sadly that attitude is not in the best interests of the game IMHO. We will continue to play by the rules of the day. We will continue to make our views known, recognising many will try to keep their current advantages.
there is a difference between expressing desires for a more balanced fixture (which i share), and demanding a chronic imbalance in the fixture that will benefit your club onfield and financially.

the joke of all this is any onfield advantage IMO isnt about postcode, its about game style. Geelong used to rock the G but they dont now, why? Richmond used to play perth and adelaide pretty well, and they dont now, why?

for us, we need wings. fatter grounds like the G, SCG, Gabba and so on we are cool. its why we weren't freaking about the QF up there (even though everyone said we would). kat park, etihad, and AO are narrower and longer in comparison, and they allow our game style to be locked up.

this isn't just with us. you have teams who rule etihad and struggle at the g. people massively underestimate the impact game style has on the particular park you are on.

you're plan to force vic teams away from the G, and onto etihad, AO, and Perth, the Doggies for example will love that (but thats not what you want of course ;))

This is why I want the WA teams out. Unless we agree to your stupid idea of flying around melbourne for 5 hours before and after every game, you guys will always be complaining. You are the most remote city in Australia, one of the most remote in the world. Thats not the AFL's fault, and its not a vicco conspiracy. its geography
 

Kwality

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Its a competition in which we all compete, fairness is a something we aim for in sport.
Many clubs now have training grounds that replicate the dimensions of the MCG, we all know why.

Good clubs win everywhere, you dont earn home finals unless you can, GF excluded. Home is a State, not a venue.

We all know the FIXture is there, you want to continue the inequity, thats why you dont want to travel, where would you be if you had to play the GF in Perth, I know you dont.

I'm saying chuck the H&A, its well past its use by date, start again.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Its a competition in which we all compete, fairness is a something we aim for in sport.
Many clubs now have training grounds that replicate the dimensions of the MCG, we all know why.

Good clubs win everywhere, you dont earn home finals unless you can, GF excluded. Home is a State, not a venue.

We all know the FIXture is there, you want to continue the inequity, thats why you dont want to travel, where would you be if you had to play the GF in Perth, I know you dont.

I'm saying chuck the H&A, its well past its use by date, start again.
i want an equal draw, you dont. thats why I now want wa out of the league so they can run their own stand alone arrangement

you can travel where you like, and have all the equity you like. win win

in tassie and canberra, out eagles and freo
 

Kwality

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i want an equal draw, you dont. thats why I now want wa out of the league so they can run their own stand alone arrangement

you can travel where you like, and have all the equity you like. win win

in tassie and canberra, out eagles and freo
You need less clubs for fairness to get a gig. A draw is my preference too, BUT I'm working with what we've got, which leaves much to be desired. The FIX is in.

Its the travelling team that is at a disadvantage, not the old style away team. Good teams win on the road.
 

Ned_Flanders

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You need less clubs for fairness to get a gig. A draw is my preference too, BUT I'm working with what we've got, which leaves much to be desired. The FIX is in.

Its the travelling team that is at a disadvantage, not the old style away team. Good teams win on the road.
and my solution fixes that - gets rid of the two teams with an unfair travel burden so they can form their own breakaway league
 

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