Tasmania

[The_Reaper]

In my mind the next two teams should be Tasmania and Albury/Wodonga

 

[madmug]

The league shouldn't have being an expanded VFL.

5-6 Victorian teams should have being promoted plus the West Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide, Port Adelaide- a team in Brisbane, Sydney.

Clubs like East Fremantle and Norwood are far greater football clubs than Footscray, North Melbourne, St Kilda etc.

Exactly my point. It just shows that the AFL is the VFL with a few ribbons attached. They made sure all the VFL clubs were looked after. then the tried to cull a couple but stopped after they destroyed Fitzroy. That was a disgrace & totally unnecessary.
Its been a real self interested haphazard process to start a national competition. They clearly wanted to keep the SANFL & WAFL out of it while looking after the Victorian clubs. they are now trying to have it both ways by expanding with the GWS/GC.
But even given that they still have a VFL competition they wont put some of the clearly failing Victorian clubs back in it to make room for a proper geographic expansion. Its a bloody disgrace.

 

[blaze036]

Exactly my point. It just shows that the AFL is the VFL with a few ribbons attached. They made sure all the VFL clubs were looked after. then the tried to cull a couple but stopped after they destroyed Fitzroy.

Contradictory much? Wonder what happened to south melbourne university and fitzroy... hmm oh and almost north melbourne (GC). Maybe there are just more clubs here becuase of the bigger support...

In my mind the next two teams should be Tasmania and Albury/Wodonga

Correction me if im wrong, but 100,000 people, no afl quality stadium and in the middle of no where doesnt sound like a great place for a new team. Surely newcastle/south sydney townsville/north queensland ect ect are way ahead

 

[madmug]

Contradictory much? Wonder what happened to south melbourne university and fitzroy... hmm oh and almost north melbourne (GC). Maybe there are just more clubs here becuase of the bigger support...

South Melbourne saw the writing on the wall & decided themselves to go to Sydney for the money & a future. Later on The AFL administration at the time of Fitzroy put money up for amalgamations etc because they wanted to expand ( bring in Port Adelaide) & knew they had too many Vic teams. They then changed tac because of the backlash & changes in administration saw them back track again to a VFL first stance.
Policy & circumstances have changed over time. The AFL have been inconsistent because they know they have a problem but no guts to fix it.
Too many clubs in Melbourne with hands out & selling games all over the place Proves they cant cut it.

 

[The_Reaper]

Contradictory much? Wonder what happened to south melbourne university and fitzroy... hmm oh and almost north melbourne (GC). Maybe there are just more clubs here becuase of the bigger support...



Correction me if im wrong, but 100,000 people, no afl quality stadium and in the middle of no where doesnt sound like a great place for a new team. Surely newcastle/south sydney townsville/north queensland ect ect are way ahead

100,000 people plus a massive catchment area of the entire Rivernia, southern NSW and northern VIC and a massive support of the sport.
In terms of nearby population Albury/Wodonga is way ahead of Townsville and Cairns.

The Ovens and Murray football league draws higher crowds than the former VFA.

Lavington could easily be made AFL quality esp considering some of the grounds AFL games have being played at, or proposed to be played at.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

100,000 people plus a massive catchment area of the entire Rivernia, southern NSW and northern VIC and a massive support of the sport.
In terms of nearby population Albury/Wodonga is way ahead of Townsville and Cairns.

The Ovens and Murray football league draws higher crowds than the former VFA.

Lavington could easily be made AFL quality esp considering some of the grounds AFL games have being played at, or proposed to be played at.

O&M is no longer the premier league it once was.
Back to Tassie, IMO the states greatest opportunity was to sustain prolonged domination within the VFL and TAC cup, unfortunately didn't happen predominately due to the lack of local support and unfortunately gave a clear indication that anything similar, such as an AFL side, wouldn't be supported by the locals.

 

[madmug]

O&M is no longer the premier league it once was.
Back to Tassie, IMO the states greatest opportunity was to sustain prolonged domination within the VFL and TAC cup, unfortunately didn't happen predominately due to the lack of local support and unfortunately gave a clear indication that anything similar, such as an AFL side, wouldn't be supported by the locals.

Sorry but Wrong assumptions IMO.

To run TAC cup & VFL teams from here cost a bloody fortune. Currently most VFL teams are bankrolled by AFL clubs. Some others run clubrooms & pokies for the necessary $$$. The Tassie devils had no clubrooms or proper base to fundraise. They weren't a proper club sad to say.

The local AFLTas tried to make that team all things to all men but in the end just buggered it up. The VFL team was actually doing well until they added the North Melbourne alliance & then had Daryn Cresswell at the helm eek. As far as support went, you forget they got near 11,000 for one semifinal they played in Hobart, before the North Melbn alliance.

You cant compare those VFL/TAC teams to the professional AFL game when it comes to media attention, sponsorship & membership support. Thats the difference when you are in a proper national competition. You cannot compare the Tassie Devils situation against having an AFL team here.
Once again people make up things to say why Tassie cant. Tassie CAN. the problem is once again simply the AFL & the bias toward Victoria, so we get ignored & things get said that are NOT TRUE. We are made to JUSTIFY why we want an AFL team, No one else does!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kwality]

In my mind the next two teams should be Tasmania and Albury/Wodonga

Recruiting U 14s ? Its supposed to be an elite comp & some appear to want to make it a paid version of the ammo's.

To many teams in Melbourne, send one to Tas - Mars have offered to sponsor a Tas team (tough luck Blues) - the Tas taxpayer kicks the can already (tough luck North, tough luck Hawks). The money is there already.

The issue is where the 3 Melbourne clubs find sponsors to replace those lost.

The AFL is protecting the Melbourne clubs & its the Taswegians paying here.

 

[madmug]

Recruiting U 14s ? Its supposed to be an elite comp & some appear to want to make it a paid version of the ammo's.

To many teams in Melbourne, send one to Tas - Mars have offered to sponsor a Tas team (tough luck Blues) - the Tas taxpayer kicks the can already (tough luck North, tough luck Hawks). The money is there already.

The issue is where the 3 Melbourne clubs find sponsors to replace those lost.

The AFL is protecting the Melbourne clubs & its the Taswegians paying here.

Why should Tassie put up with a failed Victorian suburban team to represent them in the AFL??? That would be the height of arrogance. Put that team back in the VFL. They keep their history, their location & supporters. Look at the pain caused by the South Melbourne & Fitzroy mess.
How much more obvious does this have to be????

 

[sherb]

To many teams in Melbourne, send one to Tas - Mars have offered to sponsor a Tas team (tough luck Blues) - the Tas taxpayer kicks the can already (tough luck North, tough luck Hawks). The money is there already.

May as well send one of the Melbourne teams off to WA as their third side. Makes as much sense.

 

[madmug]

May as well send one of the Melbourne teams off to WA as their third side. Makes as much sense.

How successful would a club be if it were relocated from Melbourne to Perth??. Wow wouldnt the locals drop the Weagles & Freo in droves just to get on board the old Victorian team as the new third WA team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Drazsyker]

I think the answer is obvious.


COPY AMERICA!!!!!!

One of the most successful sports, the NFL, has a conference system. I've met many people who want the state of origin back, this is a way to do it. Add in a Tassie side and a NT side. Two conferences, Victoria and Interstate. Finals are the top 6 teams from each conference. Top 2 from each get the first week off. First week(3 v 6, 4 v 5), second week, (1 v winner game 2, 2 v winner game 1), third week winner game 3 v winner game 4. Final is the winner of game 5 v the other conference's winner.


There's your state of origin and a way to expand to international markets, aswell as other states.

 

[The_Reaper]

I think the answer is obvious.


COPY AMERICA!!!!!!

One of the most successful sports, the NFL, has a conference system. I've met many people who want the state of origin back, this is a way to do it. Add in a Tassie side and a NT side. Two conferences, Victoria and Interstate. Finals are the top 6 teams from each conference. Top 2 from each get the first week off. First week(3 v 6, 4 v 5), second week, (1 v winner game 2, 2 v winner game 1), third week winner game 3 v winner game 4. Final is the winner of game 5 v the other conference's winner.


There's your state of origin and a way to expand to international markets, aswell as other states.

But if we were going to do that we should have stuck with the WAFL, SANFL etc.

 

[Kwality]

Why should Tassie put up with a failed Victorian suburban team to represent them in the AFL??? That would be the height of arrogance. Put that team back in the VFL. They keep their history, their location & supporters. Look at the pain caused by the South Melbourne & Fitzroy mess.
How much more obvious does this have to be????

No probs. Take the licence & the playing list to set a new Tas entity.

Send the remains, history intact, to the VFL.

 

[kid_a]

I think the answer is obvious.


COPY AMERICA!!!!!!

One of the most successful sports, the NFL, has a conference system. I've met many people who want the state of origin back, this is a way to do it. Add in a Tassie side and a NT side. Two conferences, Victoria and Interstate. Finals are the top 6 teams from each conference. Top 2 from each get the first week off. First week(3 v 6, 4 v 5), second week, (1 v winner game 2, 2 v winner game 1), third week winner game 3 v winner game 4. Final is the winner of game 5 v the other conference's winner.


There's your state of origin and a way to expand to international markets, aswell as other states.

yeah because that'd be fair, clubs in one conference having to fly around the continent every other week, whilst clubs in other only have to cross town

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Sorry but Wrong assumptions IMO.

To run TAC cup & VFL teams from here cost a bloody fortune. Currently most VFL teams are bankrolled by AFL clubs. Some others run clubrooms & pokies for the necessary $$$. The Tassie devils had no clubrooms or proper base to fundraise. They weren't a proper club sad to say.

The local AFLTas tried to make that team all things to all men but in the end just buggered it up. The VFL team was actually doing well until they added the North Melbourne alliance & then had Daryn Cresswell at the helm eek. As far as support went, you forget they got near 11,000 for one semifinal they played in Hobart, before the North Melbn alliance.

You cant compare those VFL/TAC teams to the professional AFL game when it comes to media attention, sponsorship & membership support. Thats the difference when you are in a proper national competition. You cannot compare the Tassie Devils situation against having an AFL team here.
Once again people make up things to say why Tassie cant. Tassie CAN. the problem is once again simply the AFL & the bias toward Victoria, so we get ignored & things get said that are NOT TRUE. We are made to JUSTIFY why we want an AFL team, No one else does!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firstly, if Tasmania couldn't generate the revenue to run a VFL club it has no hope to do so for a AFL club .
Media attention, sponsorship and membership no doubt would be greater within the AFL than the VFL , but so are the costs . The issue in Tasmania is that there just isn't the population and therefore commercial interests within the state to generate the $$$ required .
The fact that the VFL side , in your opinion , couldn't survive ' The north Melbourne alliance ' or ' Daryn Creswell ' is further evidence that the support just isn't there when things aren't going great .
Victoria has 13 VFL sides and 11 TAC sides & 10 AFL sides , in contrast Tassie AFL Footy currently has no other competitor, yet has struggled for the support to produce 1 TAC or VFL side .
Why do you think that AFL clubs prop up VFL clubs ?
As I said previously, IMO, Tassie needs to prove it can generate the income to subsidize a VFL and TAC cup side, before I think it should or will ever be considered for AFL licence ?
Don't overlook the fact that GC and GWS have been formed in areas which already have professional football organizations, the AFL are trying to convert supporters and commercial sponsorship $$$'s , which already exist, not invent them !
I appreciate that some Tasmania's are passionate and feel victimized by not being already granted a AFL licence .
However, I'd suspect the majority of the state's population would be even more pissed and against subsidizing a AFL side should it fall over ??

 

[madmug]

Firstly, if Tasmania couldn't generate the revenue to run a VFL club it has no hope to do so for a AFL club .
Media attention, sponsorship and membership no doubt would be greater within the AFL than the VFL , but so are the costs . The issue in Tasmania is that there just isn't the population and therefore commercial interests within the state to generate the $$$ required .
The fact that the VFL side , in your opinion , couldn't survive ' The north Melbourne alliance ' or ' Daryn Creswell ' is further evidence that the support just isn't there when things aren't going great .
Victoria has 13 VFL sides and 11 TAC sides & 10 AFL sides , in contrast Tassie AFL Footy currently has no other competitor, yet has struggled for the support to produce 1 TAC or VFL side .
Why do you think that AFL clubs prop up VFL clubs ?
As I said previously, IMO, Tassie needs to prove it can generate the income to subsidize a VFL and TAC cup side, before I think it should or will ever be considered for AFL licence ?
Don't overlook the fact that GC and GWS have been formed in areas which already have professional football organizations, the AFL are trying to convert supporters and commercial sponsorship $$$'s , which already exist, not invent them !
I appreciate that some Tasmania's are passionate and feel victimized by not being already granted a AFL licence .
However, I'd suspect the majority of the state's population would be even more pissed and against subsidizing a AFL side should it fall over ??

READ THE GEMBA REPORT which shows the economic veracity of the Tasmanian case. Saul Eslake & Bruce Felmingham are expert economists who agree that Tasmania is well able to support a team. Whats your problem with expert advice???????????????????????????????????????
I Know the answer. it doesnt fit with the Victorian ignorant assumption that they know better than anyone that Tasmania couldnt possibly support a team. Forget economic advise to the contrary, that must be wrong, because we know it all.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

READ THE GEMBA REPORT which shows the economic veracity of the Tasmanian case. Saul Eslake & Bruce Felmingham are expert economists who agree that Tasmania is well able to support a team. Whats your problem with expert advice???????????????????????????????????????
I Know the answer. it doesnt fit with the Victorian ignorant assumption that they know better than anyone that Tasmania couldnt possibly support a team. Forget economic advise to the contrary, that must be wrong, because we know it all.

I'll take past experience over a report any time , as I said if Tassie are fair dinkim, IMO they should start by proving they can economically sustain TAC and VFL sides .
Where are the sporting followers going to come ?

 

[madmug]

I'll take past experience over a report any time , as I said if Tassie are fair dinkim, IMO they should start by proving they can economically sustain TAC and VFL sides .
Where are the sporting followers going to come ?
I'd suggest that AFL Tassie recieve more, than the $500k the VCFL receive, from the AFL coffers, despite dwarfing AFL in affliates ?

1)Please yourself. You obviously far more expert than others.
2)The word in 'dinkum'
3)I have no idea what the VCFL or AFL tas receive from the AFL. What the F thats got to do with this thread I have no F idea

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

1)Please yourself. You obviously far more expert than others.
2)The word in 'dinkum'
3)I have no idea what the VCFL or AFL tas receive from the AFL. What the F thats got to do with this thread I have no F idea

Thanks for the spell check .

 

[Kwality]

1)Please yourself. You obviously far more expert than others.
2)The word in 'dinkum'
3)I have no idea what the VCFL or AFL tas receive from the AFL. What the F thats got to do with this thread I have no F idea

The AFL support clubs financially, some clubs that have had 100+ years to make a go of it & cant.
Tassie taxpayers are putting in $mils every year to pump up Vic clubs.
Mars were supportive of a club from Tas & only went with the Blues after the Tas club was off the agenda.

So, & with due respects to the money men, a Tas club supported by these 3 revenue sources would be every bit as viable as those supported by the AFL today.

Cant get away from it though, keeping Vic clubs from death remains an AFL priority. Yet another example of the Vic-centric control freaks running our national game.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The AFL support clubs financially, some clubs that have had 100+ years to make a go of it & cant.
Tassie taxpayers are putting in $mils every year to pump up Vic clubs.
Mars were supportive of a club from Tas & only went with the Blues after the Tas club was off the agenda.

So, & with due respects to the money men, a Tas club supported by these 3 revenue sources would be every bit as viable as those supported by the AFL today.

Cant get away from it though, keeping Vic clubs from death remains an AFL priority. Yet another example of the Vic-centric control freaks running our national game.

Don't mean to be blunt, but your dreaming if you think those 3 means alone are enough to justify long term sustainability !
1. The AFL is a multi million dollar industry , clubs being propped up currently are done so on the belief that the short term lending will be redeemed with some .
2. 1 sponsor showing interest doesn't equate to a signed deal nor does it justify granting a licence with the knowledge that , that one sponsorship, who will generate a very minor percentage of the $$$$'s required to be sustainable, is on board .
3. I strongly doubt 100% or even 50% of the 'Tassie tax payers ' who are ' propping up Vic clubs ' as you put it would support a Tassie side . I think its fair to say that should there have been enough support from Tasmania's for their own side , then not only would have the TAC cup and VFL affiliates been sustainable, but the licence into the AFL would have been more strongly considered ?

I suspect the cost , to the AFL, to run football in Tasmania , per participant, would be astronomically higher in comparison to other traditional Australian Rules states , SA, WA and VIC, in most part for the lack of interest or availability of sponsor $$$'s .
Out of interest, what would be a rough estimate of what the highest spending club in Tasmania would be spending on player payments ?

 

[Rob]

READ THE GEMBA REPORT which shows the economic veracity of the Tasmanian case. Saul Eslake & Bruce Felmingham are expert economists who agree that Tasmania is well able to support a team. Whats your problem with expert advice???????????????????????????????????????
I Know the answer. it doesnt fit with the Victorian ignorant assumption that they know better than anyone that Tasmania couldnt possibly support a team. Forget economic advise to the contrary, that must be wrong, because we know it all.

In all fairness, that was a report commissioned by Tassie people, and Saul Eslake is a prominent supporter of AFL in Tasmania.

Whether it's accurate or not I can't tell you, but the economic advice you're quoting is biased as all ****.

 

[finders]

So we are good enough to supply players to the AFL, good enough to host two AFL clubs who couldnt make it in the Victorian market, but not good enough to have our own team. I'd rather piss both Hawthorn & North Melbourne off & say stuff the Victorian game. When the AFL become mature enough to be considered a proper national competition then we would get a fair hearing. Right now its still the VFL with some tarting up around the edges. Its all about keeping the old suburban identities happy. How quaint, how pathetic.

Where is the $30- 50 million to run a club going to come from.I cant see a population of less than 600,000 being able to support a club to that extent and the State govt wouldnt tip in tens of millions.

The AFL have done their homework and it shows that a Tassie team is not viable.End of story.

 

[madmug]

In all fairness, that was a report commissioned by Tassie people, and Saul Eslake is a prominent supporter of AFL in Tasmania.

Whether it's accurate or not I can't tell you, but the economic advice you're quoting is biased as all ****.

Gemba are an international company & dont submit rubbish. It at least is a rational review. Saul Eslake too is a professional & not prone to write emotional crap. All I get from Victoria is 'I suspect' or I believe. Thats not a fair basis for discussion or analysis. You just dismiss respectable analysis because it doesnt suit you. You ignore the fact that many clubs currently sell games interstate because thet cant cut it in a national competition. You ignore the fact that Tasmania now has TWO teams sucking on the financial teat down here.
ARGUE THAT