Tasmania Tasmanian AFL Team, could it happen?

[madmug]

That's why if the FFA set up a side in Hobart it will make them think about the Tassie market again.

AFL actually does very little for grass roots footy in established Aussie Rules areas. A lot of metropolitan clubs in Melbourne are struggling to stay afloat.

I guess I've been saying as much. The problem here is we dont have a club which interacts with local community AR clubs, the lack of trickle down of players, coaches, administration, interest from kids, it all adds up the the difference between what happens in each state & what doesnt happen here. At least they have that.
Kids leave here because some have the hope of being 'discovered' through VFL, NEAFL. Also as I said, AFL cashed & Pokies cashed clubs, but no clearance fees. I mean its like the AFL deliberately want to destroy the game here.

The AFL claim themselves as the minders of the game. What a frigging joke that is.

 

[Prudster]

They are focused on womens football! Geez talk about watching Rome burn.
I'm just aghast at their dumbness or wilful ignorance.

Surely not even you could argue that Tassie football even comes close to women's football in terms of importance or flow on effects for the general population.

 

[madmug]

Surely not even you could argue that Tassie football even comes close to women's football in terms of importance or flow on effects for the general population.

Well I'm saying that about AFL Tasmania's priorities & efforts of late.
Good luck to womens footy but its consumed so much AFL Tas's time when the rest of footy here is in strife. They are a branch of head office. I think it shows how warped their priorities are. They are more concerned with orders from Melbourne which bear SFA relationship to priorities here.
I mean they've got a state womens league with 5 teams. Its frigging crazy. Talk about sprint before you can crawl. They should just regionalise the game before thinking about travelling around the state. Its hard enough for TSL clubs at times.
Its just about Image with AFL/AFL Tas. Bugger the reality.

 

[Prudster]

Well I'm saying that about AFL Tasmania's priorities & efforts of late.
Good luck to womens footy but its consumed so much AFL Tas's time when the rest of footy here is in strife. They are a branch of head office. I think it shows how warped their priorities are. They are more concerned with orders from Melbourne which bear SFA relationship to priorities here.
I mean they've got a state womens league with 5 teams. Its frigging crazy. Talk about sprint before you can crawl. They should just regionalise the game before thinking about travelling around the state. Its hard enough for TSL clubs at times.
Its just about Image with AFL/AFL Tas. Bugger the reality.

And what do you think would have happened if the rest of Australia embraced women's footy and Tassie just ignored it? A state league with 5 whole teams?! Are you serious? How few teams would be acceptable to you? 2? 1? Maybe just two women playing kick to kick? There is demand for women's football teams, and it's much easier and less resource intensive compared to creating a Tassie men's team which would constantly need handouts and subsidies.

Bugger the reality.

The problem is that your sense of reality is so warped and you refuse to accept that just maybe you're wrong. Or just maybe you hold opinions that not many other people agree with, and that doesn't make them wrong. You talk about priorities in Tassie, but given the popularity of women's football, perhaps you don't actually know what the priorities are. You know what you want, but you're so close minded i'd be surprised if you fully understand what's important to a lot of other people.

 

[madmug]

And what do you think would have happened if the rest of Australia embraced women's footy and Tassie just ignored it? A state league with 5 whole teams?! Are you serious? How few teams would be acceptable to you? 2? 1? Maybe just two women playing kick to kick? There is demand for women's football teams, and it's much easier and less resource intensive compared to creating a Tassie men's team which would constantly need handouts and subsidies.



The problem is that your sense of reality is so warped and you refuse to accept that just maybe you're wrong. Or just maybe you hold opinions that not many other people agree with, and that doesn't make them wrong. You talk about priorities in Tassie, but given the popularity of women's football, perhaps you don't actually know what the priorities are. You know what you want, but you're so close minded i'd be surprised if you fully understand what's important to a lot of other people.

Apart from taking confused pot shots, whats your point.?
Do you live here? Do you know the state of TSL clubs? Do you know the state the womens game here? Do you understand what I meant by the womens game sprinting before it walks. Do you understand the AFLs priority of image before reality.
So womens teams need less volunteers? Less trainers, less management, less costs of insurances, ground costs, jumpers, equipment? . Where do clubs find more volunteers? Its the same across most regional/rural footy of Australia.
The AFL make demands on less & less volunteers. More people at desks in AFLtas office. More rules & edicts.
Any more comments?
Im talking the reality on the ground. I talk to volunteers at various clubs. Maybe if the office jocks actually did some work as a volunteer for a while, they might understand.

 

[BringBackTorps]

If the Aleague was to stimulate a ground being built & a team to be started here, It would be the effective death of AF, in Southern Tasmania at least. As it is, its on its death bed.
Thanks Andrew & Gil.
It really started with the loss of the bulk of school football. Gary Davidson caused that in the mid 1990's. Making his footy pathway via clubs & his Mariners empire at the top.
That was the big start of the damage. Then as the AFL grew in media exposure, local football suffered as we had no real AFL here, unlike WA & SA which saw the AFL replace WAFL & SANFL in the peoples minds. All we got was FIFO carpetbaggers, & that was in Launceston, so Hobart had no AFL presence at all for some 15 years their abouts.
Never a plan for Tasmanian football, only a plan for the AFL to pillage. Even now clubs get no clearance fees when the pokie & AFL funded clubs come calling.
Its simply unsustainable.
The local state soccer league has 3 northern & 5 southern clubs, it should be 6 & 2 if performance was any guide. That shows the growth of soccer in the south. The mariners & cricket currently get most of their kids from the north.
How obvious a problem does it need to be to get the desk idiots to do their job? promote the game. They are focused on womens football! Geez talk about watching Rome burn.
I'm just aghast at their dumbness or wilful ignorance.

I have only been perusing BF regularly for a few months.
I am an AF "addict". I've played, been an Auskick co-ordinator & coach. Now on a club c'tee, got sons who play & field umpire, am a snr. field umpire myself, play over 50's AF each fortnight with the other silly old fools. I have read most of the 30 books on the general history of the game.
I was a strong supporter of the VFA & Fitzroy; despise post 2003 AFL flooding -yeah, I'm bitter. With Footscray's flag, & the growth of women's football, I'm starting to look at the AFL again.

Your post is the saddest & most disturbing BF post I have read.

The overpaid $8,000,000 pa salaries/ "bonuses" of c. 10 AFL executives are obviously undeserved (Absurdly high for a Not For Profit organisation, probably the highest NFP salaries in Aust. It is high even for private sector executives in For Profit companies with similar revenues to the AFL).

Demetriou stated several times during his tenure as AFL CEO, paraphrasing, "I want to ensure that football is in a better state when I leave, compared to when I started as CEO". He said in 2005 he was worried about the Swans'flooding & low scoring, congested ugly football -he failed!
Demetriou's total remuneration as CEO was c. $17,000,000, throughout his tenure.
Fitzpatrick, Chief Commissioner (but not on big$) said,after he retired, he tried to get the Commission to introduce a maximum of 30 interchanges per game, to improve the aesthetic of football -he also failed!

The wage of most AFL clubs'football departments'employees (army of coaches, sports'scientists, nutritionists, "welfare" managers etc) is c. $10,000,000 pa recently -usually HIGHER than their team player salary cap! Bizarre & objectionable!

With the major decline in crowds, tribal following, & media interest etc. in the proud TSL, WAFL, SANFL & death of the VFA, it can be argued that"football culture" and allegiance in the sthn. states is being diminished.

There has been a SIGNIFICANT diminution, per capita, of elite AF comp. attendances since the 70's (pop. has doubled since 1970 in Vic. & WA, less in SA & Tas.).
Probably, also, per capita male sthn.states AF regd. player nos. (Raw nos. at record highs). See how many soccer balls are being kicked around school yards at lunchtime now, cf. the 1970's; & school soccer teams are virtually in every primary & secondary school in Aust., & in almost every suburb.

In the nthn. states (excluding Canberra, where AF lost its pre-eminent position to RL in the late 80's) however, AF participation is at record levels on raw figures & per capita; & growing strongly on all metrics. AFL executives doing a good job.

The media sycophants generally decline to challenge the AFL executives on these failures (inc. Tas. AF decline) & their grotesque salaries; & the bloated AFL club football dept. salaries. Bartlett, Parkin, Sheedy, Walls (& Hafey), sometimes obliquely mention the AFL's failures(T.Lane directly). None comment on the salaries.
On flooding, many more media commentators are beginning to express their concerns.

Can you expand on your comments "..the loss of the bulk of school football...pathway..."?

 

[madmug]

I have only been perusing BF regularly for a few months.
I am an AF "addict". I've played, been an Auskick co-ordinator & coach. Now on a club c'tee, got sons who play & field umpire, am a snr. field umpire myself, play over 50's AF each fortnight with the other silly old fools. I have read most of the 30 books on the general history of the game.
I was a strong supporter of the VFA & Fitzroy; despise post 2003 AFL flooding -yeah, I'm bitter. With Footscray's flag, & the growth of women's football, I'm starting to look at the AFL again.

Your post is the saddest & most disturbing BF post I have read.


The media sycophants generally decline to challenge the AFL executives

Can you expand on your comments "..the loss of the bulk of school football...pathway..."?

In the Mid 1990s School football was gutted in the desire to align young players through junior football clubs. It was the first effort at that pathway crap. Government school football virtually ground to a halt. Private school footy continued on.
Its taken ages for AFLTas to realise the mess they made & try to increase school football again.
Too little too late.
AFLTas have focusses so much on the elite pathway they've forgotten that more kids at the bottom means more kids at the top end.

I dont know where they get their participation figures from, but anecdotally they look a bit rubbery.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I'm in no position to dispute any of madmug's assertions (it's been a while since I've been to Tasmania), but i see that in the under 18 championships, Tasmania handed out a hiding to the N.T. (88-39) on the weekend. It seems there's still some talent coming through.

 

[Garlic muncher]

I'm in no position to dispute any of madmug's assertions (it's been a while since I've been to Tasmania), but i see that in the under 18 championships, Tasmania handed out a hiding to the N.T. (88-39) on the weekend. It seems there's still some talent coming through.

Wet weather apparently

 

[Professor Knowall]

Wet weather apparently

NT footy is played in the wet season - and it's a whole lot wetter up there than Tasmania.

 

[Garlic muncher]

NT footy is played in the wet season - and it's a whole lot wetter up there than Tasmania.

Yes, but it is not physical footy like South in the wet, anyway i don't know, i am just assuming, i would have thought NT like dry open fast football, whereas the bigger bodies of Tassie would be better off in wet close in type football.

But as i said i am just assuming.

Also if NT ovals are like Perth ovals, it can bucket down in winter and the ground dry in 20 minutes.

 

[madmug]

Hobart is the 2nd driest capital city next to Adelaide.
As I said, some people work on preconceived ideas & generalisations
Right now the place is very brown, despite a bit of rain late this arvo. A bit of that NQ rain would be nice.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Yes, but it is not physical footy like South in the wet, anyway i don't know, i am just assuming, i would have thought NT like dry open fast football, whereas the bigger bodies of Tassie would be better off in wet close in type football.

But as i said i am just assuming.

Also if NT ovals are like Perth ovals, it can bucket down in winter and the ground dry in 20 minutes.

Perhaps it was as you assumed - FWIW the game was at the Blacktown Sports Park on Sunday and you may know more about the conditions therein. However a photo on the AFL website appears to show sunshine and the scoring was relatively high for an U18 game indicating perhaps conditions weren't so bad. Anyway regardless, Tasmania gave the NT a hiding - so there must still be some junior talent coming through.

Edit - madmug is also right about Hobart not really being a wet place at all.

 

[NoobPie]

Perhaps it was as you assumed - FWIW the game was at the Blacktown Sports Park on Sunday and you may know more about the conditions therein. However a photo on the AFL website appears to show sunshine and the scoring was relatively high for an U18 game indicating perhaps conditions weren't so bad. Anyway regardless, Tasmania gave the NT a hiding - so there must still be some junior talent coming through.

Edit - madmug is also right about Hobart not really being a wet place at all.

So Tassy won because of the dry conditions

 

[Garlic muncher]

Perhaps it was as you assumed - FWIW the game was at the Blacktown Sports Park on Sunday and you may know more about the conditions therein. However a photo on the AFL website appears to show sunshine and the scoring was relatively high for an U18 game indicating perhaps conditions weren't so bad. Anyway regardless, Tasmania gave the NT a hiding - so there must still be some junior talent coming through.

Edit - madmug is also right about Hobart not really being a wet place at all.

Fair enough, i actually thought it was up on the Gold coast, so i am probably well off the mark

 

[BobbyMorri]

we dont get heavy rain. but we do get a lot of rainy days.

plus the frost is like wet weather footy on some days. especially for juniors who are on the ground first.

 

[madmug]

we dont get heavy rain. but we do get a lot of rainy days.

plus the frost is like wet weather footy on some days. especially for juniors who are on the ground first.

Yes the odd shower is a common occurrence. Just not enough to do much. Yes lots of winter cool cold & & some real chilly days but also a lot of clear & sunny footy days too.
I dont think we get many frosty mornings these days, certainly not like years ago when I was young. Junior footy was often on crunchy frosty grounds. Thats getting quite rare with the weather changes we're having more & more often. The grounds are all better too. The grounds with turf cricket pitches can get cut up. they can also be like concrete as well.
I had a few years in Melbourne in the 80's & 90's & I'd never seen mud like the VFA grounds consistently had. I guess those grounds gave changed too.

 

[Professor Knowall]

So Tassy won because of the dry conditions

lol - mustv'e been the reason

Now the thread has destroyed the 'it rains a lot in Hobart' myth, I'd like to get back to the point about Tasmania U18 giving the NT a flogging on Sunday (regardless of weather) and trying to reconcile this with madmugs doom and gloom outlook on the present state of Tasmanian footy. It still seems some talent is coming through.

 

[madmug]

lol - mustv'e been the reason

Now the thread has destroyed the 'it rains a lot in Hobart' myth, I'd like to get back to the point about Tasmania U18 giving the NT a flogging on Sunday (regardless of weather) and trying to reconcile this with madmugs doom and gloom outlook on the present state of Tasmanian footy. It still seems some talent is coming through.

Maybe you could give us an Idea how to reconcile the difference between an 'elite' pathway & the health of AR?.

Being a smaller population you'll get rises & falls in the quality/ability of kids. Last year the experts said this years group will be better. How much better I wouldnt know. I am told by some that the overall numbers of kids is not what it was. My soccer mate however tells me the juniors are full of kids.
Anecdotal I know. As I said their is an obvious difference between the north & south of the state.
I do have much more intel about Club footy.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Maybe you could give us an Idea how to reconcile the difference between an 'elite' pathway & the health of AR?.

Being a smaller population you'll get rises & falls in the quality/ability of kids. Last year the experts said this years group will be better. How much better I wouldnt know. I am told by some that the overall numbers of kids is not what it was. My soccer mate however tells me the juniors are full of kids.
Anecdotal I know. As I said their is an obvious difference between the north & south of the state.
I do have much more intel about Club footy.

Fair enough - and if you're saying (as I think you are) that an 'elite' pathway doesn't necessarily indicate the health of AR, then yeah, I wouldn't disagree. I've found your views on Tasmanian footy in general to be interesting (even if it is often a gloomy read - at least about the South).

 

[madmug]

I am generally an up beat person. I manage people & contracts & situations all day. I much prefer to accentuate the positive things in my day & with work colleagues & public. And with my footy mates.

I hate where footy here has come to. Its not necessary. Simple really.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I am generally an up beat person. .... I much prefer to accentuate the positive things in my day & with work colleagues & public. And with my footy mates.

I hate where footy here has come to. Its not necessary. Simple really.

So is it still fixable? Putting on your "positive" hat, what should/could now be done to repair the situation in Tasmania at grassroots (setting aside, just for now, the topic of having its own AFL team). ... and apologies if you've already done this way back in this thread.

 

[madmug]

At the AFL level. the thought that a Tasmanian team could only come at the expense of a Melbourne team came out because a number on BF believed 18 to be the maximum number of teams. Also that no Vic teams should be lost to the AFL. The fact that Melbourne has 10, & WA has 2 should be patently embarrassing to AF followers. It shows what the league is really run for. The benefit of the old VFL & its value to the Victorian economy. Not the real health of AR nationally.
I said in an 18 team comp, not having a proper Tasmanian team is a disgrace.
So in that regard WA3 & Tas1 is in play. (In my view it is
Locally, Tas club football is very amateur compared to its relative position, even 20 years ago. Every other 'football' state saw its local league go down in its relative strength due to the AFL, they gained AFL clubs so it could be argued that some sort of balance in the game was established. That never happened here. Indeed what we got was worse for the game here. FIFO clubs contribute nothing, take attention, sponsorship, gates etc etc. All to the detriment to our own local AF. Its all one way with the AFL. Even worse than the old VFLs behaviors.
AFL fund & employ AFLTas. they contribute to the TSL. But not anywhere near what is required to redress the above, nor even run it properly. Some clubs are known to be trading insolvent. We lost one TSL club last year, its not sustainable. I've lost count of what clubs are in/out of TSL since it started as TSL 1 in 1986. A hiatus in 2001. The Devils VFL in/out. Then TSL 2 in 2009. Its a pathetic situation, all run by & for the AFL.
The crap about costs to run a club are so biased against Tasmania that its ridiculous. Tasmania was the 2nd place to play AR after Victoria. Our relative strength & capacity has been decimated by the AFLs actions & behaviors over 20+ years.
At least with a local AFL team you get the professional rub off of coaches, players, administrators. You would think that AFLTas would have helped with whats happening. Clearly not. With them its do what HQ says. Clearly local AR is irrelevant. They all pile off to AFL games played here. Probably sucking up for a promotion to Melbourne, & golf on wednesday
So much for the keepers of the game.
Anything is fixable.
What isn't is the AFLs geographically self centred attitude.

 

[sverik25]

At the AFL level. the thought that a Tasmanian team could only come at the expense of a Melbourne team came out because a number on BF believed 18 to be the maximum number of teams. Also that no Vic teams should be lost to the AFL. The fact that Melbourne has 10, & WA has 2 should be patently embarrassing to AF followers. It shows what the league is really run for. The benefit of the old VFL & its value to the Victorian economy. Not the real health of AR nationally.
I said in an 18 team comp, not having a proper Tasmanian team is a disgrace.
So in that regard WA3 & Tas1 is in play. (In my view it is
Locally, Tas club football is very amateur compared to its relative position, even 20 years ago. Every other 'football' state saw its local league go down in its relative strength due to the AFL, they gained AFL clubs so it could be argued that some sort of balance in the game was established. That never happened here. Indeed what we got was worse for the game here. FIFO clubs contribute nothing, take attention, sponsorship, gates etc etc. All to the detriment to our own local AF. Its all one way with the AFL. Even worse than the old VFLs behaviors.
AFL fund & employ AFLTas. they contribute to the TSL. But not anywhere near what is required to redress the above, nor even run it properly. Some clubs are known to be trading insolvent. We lost one TSL club last year, its not sustainable. I've lost count of what clubs are in/out of TSL since it started as TSL 1 in 1986. A hiatus in 2001. The Devils VFL in/out. Then TSL 2 in 2009. Its a pathetic situation, all run by & for the AFL.
The crap about costs to run a club are so biased against Tasmania that its ridiculous. Tasmania was the 2nd place to play AR after Victoria. Our relative strength & capacity has been decimated by the AFLs actions & behaviors over 20+ years.
At least with a local AFL team you get the professional rub off of coaches, players, administrators. You would think that AFLTas would have helped with whats happening. Clearly not. With them its do what HQ says. Clearly local AR is irrelevant. They all pile off to AFL games played here. Probably sucking up for a promotion to Melbourne, & golf on wednesday
So much for the keepers of the game.
Anything is fixable.
What isn't is the AFLs geographically self centred attitude.

I'll preface this by saying that I support a Tasmanian team in the AFL and I agree that the AFL's treatment of Tassie is terrible.

I just wanted to pick up on a few things that you said. Unless it is deemed absolutely unfeasible to expand to more than 18 teams, then I hardly see the point of getting rid of multiple Victorian teams to replace them with WA3 and Tas, especially WA3, when you have a situation where the popular demand for another team is not really there in WA. Besides, the AFL is committed to all 10 of the Victorian teams (regardless of whether people think that's right or not) for at least the foreseeable future and the negative PR generated by destroying up to two clubs would be huge for the AFL.

The only current teams I would support a relocation/merger etc. of are GWS and Gold Coast, but of course we know the AFL is also absolutely determined to do whatever necessary to make them work. If things don't improve for GC, then they may be susceptible to being replaced, in which case I would hope that Tasmania is first cab off the rank, but I have absolutely no faith in the AFL doing this, and as I've already said it still seems very unlikely that the AFL will allow GC to go under.

If there were an expansion to 20 or more teams (which I believe would definitely be feasible) then I would absolutely support a Tasmanian bid, and I think some of the concerns regarding a Tasmanian team's viability and logistics are overplayed, especially in a larger competition where the necessary off-field standards would be lower. But I won't support a Tasmanian team at the expense of a club with over 100 years of history.

 

[madmug]

I've read opinions on BF for long enough to realise the regionalism involved in the AFL.
When one looks at it, the difference between a city having say 3 or 4 teams is noticeable. Between 10 or 11 is very minimal. But from zero to one is immense.
Saying teams shouldnt be cut from a competition no matter how poorly run or how poor its finances are is really asking for trouble. If they've been poor for most of 100 years, defending them because of the region they come from is really poor business & petty parochialism at its worst.. Its pure politics.

Anyway their is no guarantee we'll ever get a look in. In the meantime out football becomes even more decimated & devalued.