Tasmania Tasmanian AFL Team, could it happen?

[madmug]

Tas has to be prepared to stand the AFL up, the failure of the AFL direct involvement in Tasmania has to be chronicled & publicised so the footy public are informed.
Two issues are in the hands of the Taswegians, paying AFL clubs to play there & the structure of Tas footy - put the AFL on notice that the current contracts will not be renewed & look to SA & WA support to return the admin of the game to Tasmania.
Being nice to big brother has failed, time for little brother to take control.

A quick look for the 2016 Annual Report for AFL Tas was unsuccessful.

It shouldn't require standing up anyone. Its really about fairness, equity & capacity.
Its about the AFL politics of decision making.
Great result today with Tassie u18s beating SA.

 

[Verdun]

It shouldn't require standing up anyone. Its really about fairness, equity & capacity.
Its about the AFL politics of decision making.
Great result today with Tassie u18s beating SA.

Yep in an ideal world there would be an AFL team here established at least 5 years ago, but the way the AFL has treated Tas is not fair or equitable. Should start by pulling the sponsorship money for North and Hawthorn and stop the talk of North / Tas alliance; should stand alone sick of subsidizing other clubs. Believe that the current AFL tas chief is a mouthpiece for the AFL not Tas

oh yeah- great win by the under 18s more demonstration of the state punching way above it's weight.

 

[Aramis]

Just relocate the proverbial frog in a pot of water slowly being brought to boil of a club that is Gold Coast down to Tasmania.
Problem solved... Hawks and Kangas go find other sponsors.

 

[madmug]

Yep in an ideal world there would be an AFL team here established at least 5 years ago, but the way the AFL has treated Tas is not fair or equitable. Should start by pulling the sponsorship money for North and Hawthorn and stop the talk of North / Tas alliance; should stand alone sick of subsidizing other clubs. Believe that the current AFL tas chief is a mouthpiece for the AFL not Tas

oh yeah- great win by the under 18s more demonstration of the state punching way above it's weight.

Quite right. If anyone thinks the AFL appointee manager of AFLtas has any other aim than pushing AFL policy here, they needs a reality check.

The TSL is the AFLs competition. They are responsible for the mess its been in for years. Clubs near insolvency. Clubs in & out. The internal interference in some clubs. All they've done is make a mess. Arrogant ignorance, inconsistent ad hoc decision making & a biased attitude for & against some clubs has been the management style of AFL Tas for years.

I actually think a fair & capable AFL Tas management should have an independent representative with good management & financial skills at each club, to HELP not hinder them.

I dont know if the current manager will be any different. So far 'Same' Auld has been no better then the previous suspect who 'managed' AFLTas. Sad to say.

The AFLs behavior within & in regard to Tasmania is simply confused, ad hoc & destructive because of that. I wish they'd actually show some of their claimed management skills. Really they just embarrass themselves with their actions/non actions here.

 

[Rob]

It shouldn't require standing up anyone. Its really about fairness, equity & capacity.
Its about the AFL politics of decision making.
Great result today with Tassie u18s beating SA.

Where was that result from? I thought the under 18's finished for Tassie a few weeks ago (where they held their own against the NSW and Qld Academies).

 

[madmug]

Where was that result from? I thought the under 18's finished for Tassie a few weeks ago (where they held their own against the NSW and Qld Academies).

Game was in SA. I saw result on Tasmanian football scores & news facebook site.

 

[Rob]

Game was in SA. I saw result on Tasmanian football scores & news facebook site.

Ah, OK. Must have been a practice match of some sort.

 

[madmug]

Ah, OK. Must have been a practice match of some sort.

They all are. Its junior footy. Its all practise to Impress the AFL meat market inspectors.

 

[Tigersman]

Quite right. If anyone thinks the AFL appointee manager of AFLtas has any other aim than pushing AFL policy here, they needs a reality check.

The TSL is the AFLs competition. They are responsible for the mess its been in for years. Clubs near insolvency. Clubs in & out. The internal interference in some clubs. All they've done is make a mess. Arrogant ignorance, inconsistent ad hoc decision making & a biased attitude for & against some clubs has been the management style of AFL Tas for years.

I actually think a fair & capable AFL Tas management should have an independent representative with good management & financial skills at each club, to HELP not hinder them.

I dont know if the current manager will be any different. So far 'Same' Auld has been no better then the previous suspect who 'managed' AFLTas. Sad to say.

The AFLs behavior within & in regard to Tasmania is simply confused, ad hoc & destructive because of that. I wish they'd actually show some of their claimed management skills. Really they just embarrass themselves with their actions/non actions here.

It's no different in Victoria. AFL taking over state and local football has been a disaster

 

[madmug]

It's no different in Victoria. AFL taking over state and local football has been a disaster

But the difference, a huge difference, is that they have 10 AFL clubs. That keeps a huge interest & money in the game in Victoria. Whilst here its been a huge flow of money & interest to the AFL. With nothing here to replace the flow of interest to the AFL, it represents a huge relative loss of interest & money into Tasmanian football.
Killing off the lower level community AF clubs in traditional footy areas will do the game no good in the long run.
I fail to understands the AFL's logic or strategy. Is their any?

 

[Tigersman]

But the difference, a huge difference, is that they have 10 AFL clubs. That keeps a huge interest & money in the game in Victoria. Whilst here its been a huge flow of money & interest to the AFL. With nothing here to replace the flow of interest to the AFL, it represents a huge relative loss of interest & money into Tasmanian football.
Killing off the lower level community AF clubs in traditional footy areas will do the game no good in the long run.
I fail to understands the AFL's logic or strategy. Is their any?

10 afl clubs in Victoria puts no money into local level football. The exact opposite. Money is siphoned out of local footy.

State level footy here is dead as well.

Anyway, I'm off topic.

 

[BringBackTorps]

But the difference, a huge difference, is that they have 10 AFL clubs. That keeps a huge interest & money in the game in Victoria. Whilst here its been a huge flow of money & interest to the AFL. With nothing here to replace the flow of interest to the AFL, it represents a huge relative loss of interest & money into Tasmanian football.
Killing off the lower level community AF clubs in traditional footy areas will do the game no good in the long run.
I fail to understands the AFL's logic or strategy. Is their any?

Re elite jnr. AF in Tas., care to comment on my suggestion in post#773 above?
Or your preferred alternative to resurrect the elite jnr. level? It is being predicted that, again in 2018, it is unlikely any Tas. players will be drafted.

 

[telsor]

10 afl clubs in Victoria puts no money into local level football. The exact opposite. Money is siphoned out of local footy.

State level footy here is dead as well.

Anyway, I'm off topic.

That is a valid point though...A Tas AFL team would probably kill off the state league by sucking up sponsors, supporters, etc.

It's hurt WAFL/SANFL (and as stated, there isn't really a 2nd tier comp in Vic, and no way one can realistically start up) and the TSL doesn't have anywhere near the size, financial strength or history that they do.

 

[telsor]

Re elite jnr. AF in Tas., care to comment on my suggestion in post#773 above?
Or your preferred alternative to resurrect the elite jnr. level? It is being predicted that, again in 2018, it is unlikely any Tas. players will be drafted.

The future directions document from AFLTas mentioned various options...most seem to boil down to 'give us more money so we can hire more people and thus expand our reach'.

 

[Verdun]

That is a valid point though...A Tas AFL team would probably kill off the state league by sucking up sponsors, supporters, etc.

It's hurt WAFL/SANFL (and as stated, there isn't really a 2nd tier comp in Vic, and no way one can realistically start up) and the TSL doesn't have anywhere near the size, financial strength or history that they do.

That is one way of looking it if you want to be totally negative, depends how it works. If it works like the AFL hiearachy maybe but it does not need to. May not have the size definetly has the financial strength and history of WA, SA and Vic. Bit of recent history that I was at and remember clearly:



Tasmania v Victoria North Hobart 1990


Mistakes have been made since then but most of those have been by the AFL

Reckon it would unify the state and more would be involved in the game.

Currently the local SEABL team(second tier basketball team) has gone through a strategic process of having a clear direction including involved in the community while growing the sport . This is working, the team is now playing in a larger venue with larger crowds more people are playing basketball - there is a clear pathway and connection between the elite club that is developing on a 3 year plan to get into the NBL and the local basketball community. Clubs and associations involved. Local players are playing along with players from inter state and imports, ex premier is now president and the club has clear direction. My young bloke went to a holiday clinic run by the team in the school holidays and one of the players talked to him, he had fun and got a ticket to the next game that we as a family went to - not rocket science but it works....invest in the community and it will work. AND the local competition is benefiting from the clear strategic direction becoming operational. The VFL team Tas had should have done the same instead of becoming a North team and then ceasing to exist.

There is no reason why an AFL team could not work the same; splitting the games between the North and South / working with the local community, having financial viability and having a developing and strong local competition.

Tas needs to own some of this - stop sponsoring AFL clubs, invest in it's own community. Another (continuing) indication of how arrogant the AFL is when a local business offers (Bob Cheek who owns a heap of 24 hour gyms ZAP that have spread to Vic) to invest 1 million as a start up for a AFLW team and is then told it would not be listened to and we may get a couple of North games here if they get a game. The AFL takes Tas for granted while expecting us to prop up other clubs....damn wrong and beyond a joke.

It is not what Tasmania is doing wrong, if it happened in a thought out not tokenistic way and AFL and AFLW team would thrive here along with the game thrive but at the moment the starting point should be Tasmania to tell the AFL to get stuffed.

Do not have to convince others, do not give really care what some posters think but Tas is strong - the AFL will lose out by treating it the way it has and continues to do so.

 

[telsor]

That is one way of looking it if you want to be totally negative, depends how it works. If it works like the AFL hiearachy maybe but it does not need to.

In order to run an AFL team, you need to put tens of millions into it every year....That money wont come from nowhere and a decent proportion would come from other sports (particularly football) in the state. At it's most basic level, Joe Blogs goes down to the AFL match one weekend...he wont be going to the TSL match, because he doesn't have the time/money to do both, so the TSL loses his entry fee, and their share of the pie and beers he would have bought there. Multiply that by 10,000. Then add the 'big' TSL sponsors who switch over to the AFL team (they're only small sponsors there, but they still reach a bigger audience, and get to go to games/events, and their clients are more impressed with the corporate hospitality).

Sure, new sponsors will come in, but we're talking $10,000, not $50,000, which makes a hell of a difference to a bunch of clubs that are struggling already.

May not have the size definetly has the financial strength and history of WA, SA and Vic. Bit of recent history that I was at and remember clearly:



Tasmania v Victoria North Hobart 1990

Yeah, you beat the Vic 2nds, on your home turf, back when interest in interstate games was so low the Vic 1sts were struggling to attract players (no, really, there were just so many one week injuries that week...). Congratulations, you must be very proud.

Mistakes have been made since then but most of those have been by the AFL

Who else has done anything?

If only one group is doing anything, you'd kinda expect they'd make most of the mistakes.

Reckon it would unify the state and more would be involved in the game.

Currently the local SEABL team(second tier basketball team) has gone through a strategic process of having a clear direction including involved in the community while growing the sport . This is working, the team is now playing in a larger venue with larger crowds more people are playing basketball - there is a clear pathway and connection between the elite club that is developing on a 3 year plan to get into the NBL and the local basketball community. Clubs and associations involved. Local players are playing along with players from inter state and imports, ex premier is now president and the club has clear direction. My young bloke went to a holiday clinic run by the team in the school holidays and one of the players talked to him, he had fun and got a ticket to the next game that we as a family went to - not rocket science but it works....invest in the community and it will work. AND the local competition is benefiting from the clear strategic direction becoming operational. The VFL team Tas had should have done the same instead of becoming a North team and then ceasing to exist.

Then why didn't it?
Why didn't Tasmanian football take charge and make it happen?
Back then, the game was still run by 'Football Tasmania', which the AFL was just one stakeholder of. If the demand, support and money had supported the idea, it could have gone ahead...but instead they decided they wanted to have another crack at a state league (and didn't have the money to do both).

There is no reason why an AFL team could not work the same; splitting the games between the North and South / working with the local community, having financial viability and having a developing and strong local competition.

and where would the money come from for this?
$20M+ wont appear out of nowhere.

Tas needs to own some of this - stop sponsoring AFL clubs, invest in it's own community. Another (continuing) indication of how arrogant the AFL is when a local business offers (Bob Cheek who owns a heap of 24 hour gyms ZAP that have spread to Vic) to invest 1 million as a start up for a AFLW team and is then told it would not be listened to and we may get a couple of North games here if they get a game. The AFL takes Tas for granted while expecting us to prop up other clubs....damn wrong and beyond a joke.

Are there enough players down of sufficient quality for an AFLW team? Remember, it's at best semi-pro, most players have to be locals because very few will move for the little money on offer. There is also the problem that the AFLs model is to have womens teams associated with the current clubs (I don't agree with that, but it's impossible to deny it'd be a factor).

As for not sponsoring AFL clubs...It's not like the money would then go into local football....The sponsorships/game payments are about drawing in tourism, it's a different 'pot' from sports funding, and if they didn't spend on that, they'd probably redirect it into some festival or whatever.

It is not what Tasmania is doing wrong, if it happened in a thought out not tokenistic way and AFL and AFLW team would thrive here along with the game thrive but at the moment the starting point should be Tasmania to tell the AFL to get stuffed.

Do not have to convince others, do not give really care what some posters think but Tas is strong - the AFL will lose out by treating it the way it has and continues to do so.

It really isn't.
2.2% of the national population, and 1.6% of the national economy isn't 'strong', and consider both of those figures are declining, it's getting even weaker.

 

[madmug]

Re elite jnr. AF in Tas., care to comment on my suggestion in post#773 above?
Or your preferred alternative to resurrect the elite jnr. level? It is being predicted that, again in 2018, it is unlikely any Tas. players will be drafted.

My understanding from someone who follows such things is that at least 2 players will be drafted. I'm afraid I dont know much about any of the current under 18's so I'll leave it to others to discuss.

Given that it adds nothing to Tasmanian football, why should I care. I mean good luck to them & any kid who gets a job they want to do.

#773 The current operation of the Tas u18's operates much as you suggest. They play a number of games then play TSL at either senior or reserve level ( reserves being an age limited competition anyway.)

The function in Melbourne was not for the HOF, it was the Tasmanian football foundation. Its about kids opportunity at both community football & the 'pathway' to the AFL.

I might correct you by saying football is still played by Penguin football club at Penguin & on the Queenbrough ground, albeit not by the sadly defunct Sandy Bay Seagulls whe were bankrupt 20 years ago.
The move of kids from football to soccer & basketball is accelerating.

 

[Verdun]

In order to run an AFL team, you need to put tens of millions into it every year....That money wont come from nowhere and a decent proportion would come from other sports (particularly football) in the state. At it's most basic level, Joe Blogs goes down to the AFL match one weekend...he wont be going to the TSL match, because he doesn't have the time/money to do both, so the TSL loses his entry fee, and their share of the pie and beers he would have bought there. Multiply that by 10,000. Then add the 'big' TSL sponsors who switch over to the AFL team (they're only small sponsors there, but they still reach a bigger audience, and get to go to games/events, and their clients are more impressed with the corporate hospitality).

Sure, new sponsors will come in, but we're talking $10,000, not $50,000, which makes a hell of a difference to a bunch of clubs that are struggling already.





Yeah, you beat the Vic 2nds, on your home turf, back when interest in interstate games was so low the Vic 1sts were struggling to attract players (no, really, there were just so many one week injuries that week...). Congratulations, you must be very proud.




Who else has done anything?

If only one group is doing anything, you'd kinda expect they'd make most of the mistakes.



Then why didn't it?
Why didn't Tasmanian football take charge and make it happen?
Back then, the game was still run by 'Football Tasmania', which the AFL was just one stakeholder of. If the demand, support and money had supported the idea, it could have gone ahead...but instead they decided they wanted to have another crack at a state league (and didn't have the money to do both).



and where would the money come from for this?
$20M+ wont appear out of nowhere.




Are there enough players down of sufficient quality for an AFLW team? Remember, it's at best semi-pro, most players have to be locals because very few will move for the little money on offer. There is also the problem that the AFLs model is to have womens teams associated with the current clubs (I don't agree with that, but it's impossible to deny it'd be a factor).

As for not sponsoring AFL clubs...It's not like the money would then go into local football....The sponsorships/game payments are about drawing in tourism, it's a different 'pot' from sports funding, and if they didn't spend on that, they'd probably redirect it into some festival or whatever.



It really isn't.
2.2% of the national population, and 1.6% of the national economy isn't 'strong', and consider both of those figures are declining, it's getting even weaker.

You really are obsessed with Tas and taking pot shots, Tigers disappointing you that much?

 

[telsor]

You really are obsessed with Tas and taking pot shots, Tigers disappointing you that much?

Just pointing out the FACTS.

Sorry if you don't like them.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You really are obsessed with Tas and taking pot shots, Tigers disappointing you that much?

Telsor doesnt need a form dump to rag on tassie

He thinks its an economic shithole and is worse than south sudan in terms of economic development

He thinks they should be grateful for tv broadcasts and fifo games they pay for, so not s**t he will always hate on them

 

[Verdun]

Just pointing out the FACTS.

Sorry if you don't like them.

Your posts are not facts, mainly dribble - Yep you have an opinion that I think is wrong. Can not understand your need to keep bangin on, you don't think Tas should have a team - on ya. Sad existence you must have. I respect others right to an opinion this post sums any lack of insight and the need to feel an opinion is fact.

My opinion is that Tas should stop sponsoring teams to play here. Why should the state subsidize clubs to play here?

Telsor doesnt need a form dump to rag on tassie

He thinks its an economic shithole and is worse than south sudan in terms of economic development

He thinks they should be grateful for tv broadcasts and fifo games they pay for, so not s**t he will always hate on them

Classy post this, sums it up the posting that creates contempt for discussion and my point on other posters having pot shots for no reason.

 

[telsor]

Telsor doesnt need a form dump to rag on tassie

He thinks its an economic shithole and is worse than south sudan in terms of economic development

He thinks they should be grateful for tv broadcasts and fifo games they pay for, so not s**t he will always hate on them

More just that every time I come in here, I keep seeing the same lies...sorry, 'overly optimistic views'...backed up with absolutely nothing.

If by correcting them, using actual facts and figures, I seem like I'm Anti-Tas, it's a false view, but so be it.

As I've said for a long time, if people want to stop me, try using facts instead of regurgitating the same old unsubstantiated bullshit.

 

[Verdun]

More just that every time I come in here, I keep seeing the same lies...sorry, 'overly optimistic views'...backed up with absolutely nothing.

If by correcting them, using actual facts and figures, I seem like I'm Anti-Tas, it's a false view, but so be it.

As I've said for a long time, if people want to stop me, try using facts instead of regurgitating the same old unsubstantiated bullshit.

Time to move on and get another hobby - they are not facts they are opinions

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Your posts are not facts, mainly dribble - Yep you have an opinion that I think is wrong. Can not understand your need to keep bangin on, you don't think Tas should have a team - on ya. Sad existence you must have. I respect others right to an opinion this post sums any lack of insight and the need to feel an opinion is fact.

My opinion is that Tas should stop sponsoring teams to play here. Why should the state subsidize clubs to play here?








Classy post this, sums it up the posting that creates contempt for discussion and my point on other posters having pot shots for no reason.

You havent been reading the same posts from him on repeat fir years

Essentially every argument us no matter how good it would be in tassie, melbourne teams (all 9 of them) are better

 

[telsor]

Your posts are not facts, mainly dribble - Yep you have an opinion that I think is wrong. Can not understand your need to keep bangin on, you don't think Tas should have a team - on ya. Sad existence you must have. I respect others right to an opinion this post sums any lack of insight and the need to feel an opinion is fact.

Yeah, but I back up my opinions with facts from reputable sources rather than repeating the same crap in the face of such sources.

For example...where I said above that Tas is only 1.6% of the national economy, that was from a Tasmanian government document.

http://www.treasury.tas.gov.au/Documents/State-Accounts.pdf

BTW. If you do the numbers, I actually rounded up a bit...it's closer to 1.5669%

My opinion is that Tas should stop sponsoring teams to play here. Why should the state subsidize clubs to play here?

and you're welcome to that view. I doubt it'll hold much sway considering, as I quoted before, the Hobart Council thinks they get around $45Million in economic activity from the 3 North games there, and thus a pretty good return on their investment. I think you need to recognise that their aims from that investment may not correspond with yours.

(figures taken from the AFLTas future directions document).
http://www.afltas.com.au/wp-content...Tasmanian-Football-Project_Summary-Report.pdf

Mind you, if you want another opinion, more expert than either of us presumably, on the state of the game in Tas, here are the major findings from that document.

Major Findings
–
Community Football;

Football below the national game has changed from what are sporadically referred to as the ‘glory days’ of Tasmanian Football of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
Significant demographic, social and economic changes and challenges across the State have coincided with changes in participation, engagement
and viewing habits in relation to the local game.

Tasmania’s unemployment is amongst the highest in the nation, its education level amongst the lowest and a high number of its suburbs the poorest (Skills Tasmania analysis of Census data reports). Add to that an ageing population and an excessive dependence on Government assistance and there are clearly some factors impacting social growth and cultural change within the State.

Community and State League football in Tasmania has also gone through an extended period of change and instability over the last 30 years.
Most recently the establishment of a revamped State League competition known as the Tasmanian State League (TSL) occurred and the AFL formally
became the pre-eminent governing body for the game when AFL Tasmania became a wholly owned subsidiary of the AFL in 2014.
At this time, the Tasmanian Football Council (TFC) was also established as the governing body for community football below the TSL competition.

While data indicates that overall participation is slightly increasing in Tasmania over recent years,participation in the key segment of Club participants is actually declining. Total Club football (junior, youth, senior, veterans) participation has decreased from 13,100 in 2014 to be 12,125 in 2015, in
contrast to the growth of the other States.