TAS Tassie... happening?

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madmug

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That's a completely bad side.
Given the massive drop off in junior development done by AFLTas for over a decade now, & the period 2001-2012 when No AFL games were played in Hobart, then 2 North games came along which would interest no one, what would you expect?

Saw a tv report recently that said this year has seen a growth in junior numbers for the first time in ages. Both boys & girls. So it'll be a while before we start to see that filter up to the AFL.
 

Wayne Swan

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Who would want to be a player for a Tasmanian side. Absolute crap freezing all footy season, be asking for a trade north asap.

Meanwhile up in Qld they are wearing T shirts at training during winter, no beanie or gloves required.

Finances (next tv deal will be worth a lot less) and likely low attendances are the killer, plus we already have too many teams diluting the standard, couldn't possibly add another two teams.

Just thinking about it, "Tasmania" replaces "North Melbourne" perfectly in their song!
 

nobbyiscool

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Who would want to be a player for a Tasmanian side. Absolute crap freezing all footy season, be asking for a trade north asap.

Meanwhile up in Qld they are wearing T shirts at training during winter, no beanie or gloves required.
Yep, and the Qld teams have no trouble retaining players
 
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Who would want to be a player for a Tasmanian side. Absolute crap freezing all footy season, be asking for a trade north asap.

Meanwhile up in Qld they are wearing T shirts at training during winter, no beanie or gloves required.

Finances (next tv deal will be worth a lot less) and likely low attendances are the killer, plus we already have too many teams diluting the standard, couldn't possibly add another two teams.

Just thinking about it, "Tasmania" replaces "North Melbourne" perfectly in their song!
Maybe Tassie could get a cost of living cold allowance. All in the interests of a national competition of course.

Regards

S. Pete
 

Engimal v3

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Who would want to be a player for a Tasmanian side. Absolute crap freezing all footy season, be asking for a trade north asap.

Meanwhile up in Qld they are wearing T shirts at training during winter, no beanie or gloves required.

Finances (next tv deal will be worth a lot less) and likely low attendances are the killer, plus we already have too many teams diluting the standard, couldn't possibly add another two teams.

Just thinking about it, "Tasmania" replaces "North Melbourne" perfectly in their song!
What makes you think finances and attendances would be low, given that Tasmania has never, ever had professional representation at AFL level?

You couldn't be basing it off of North/Hawks games, because of course you'd be basing attendance/membership figures off of neutral fans attending games, and I don't think anyone is quite that stupid haha

Can you link the analysis that you're basing this off of?
 

Dr Awkward

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I would love to see a Tasmanian team, but I don’t think the numbers stack up financially. The AFL may have a license to print money and though it may look like NSW and QLD are money pits, they actually earn more for the AFL through broadcast rights per team, than Victoria and South Australia, due to having big populations and less teams.

Here are the numbers I looked at to come to my opinions (all sourced from the internet)

AFL Broadcast rights is on average $418 million per year. Divide that by 18 teams you get about $23 million per team.

Based on 2017 handouts per team average $15 million. GWS and GC getting $23 million; BRI $22 million; StK $19 million, and WB & NM $16 million. At the other end, wealthy clubs got less i.e.: COL $11 million.

The reason the AFL gets so much money from the broadcast rights is through advertising and sponsors in bigger states. Victoria, NSW and QLD.
Based on the 2017 AFL Grand Final viewers, Victoria on average supplies 40% of people watching AFL; 20% from NSW; 13% from WA and QLD; 10% from SA and 3% from Tasmania.

I used these viewer figures against the $418 million broadcast rights and found that the 10 Victorian teams translate to about $17 million per team; NSW 2 teams $43 million per team; WA $28 million per team; QLD $25 million per team; SA $21 million per team and if you went off the viewer figures Tasmania would be about $17 million if they had a team.

This shows me that QLD and NSW are pulling their weight in making the AFL money.

Only NSW could afford another team based on population and viewership, but I can’t see that happening or where they would put it.
I can see the AFL propping up teams with the broadcast rights through till 2023 where they could put a team in Tasmania, but at a cost.
Figures sourced from following sites

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl...ng-in-the-big-bucks/jotzvtk43bfe11kw1sfqqvqcp - income
http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=28301 – 2017 handouts
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7356-afl-grand-final-viewers-september-2017-201710020358 - 2017 AFL grand final
Good post.

But the AFL should not just be treated like a for-profit business. The AFL themselves are just custodians of a sport that exists for the people.

The arguments in favour of Tasmanian team go beyond economics. More about recognizing a great footballing state.
 

sobrave

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How soft do you have to be to think that Tassie is too cold for football?

Hobart where players would most likely live is drier than Melbourne and only a couple of degrees cooler in mid winter. Launceston can get cold but no colder than Canberra. It's not exactly Minnesota or Canada. Perfectly comfortable temperatures to be outside in if you're exercising.
 

Engimal v3

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How soft do you have to be to think that Tassie is too cold for football?

Hobart where players would most likely live is drier than Melbourne and only a couple of degrees cooler in mid winter. Launceston can get cold but no colder than Canberra. It's not exactly Minnesota or Canada. Perfectly comfortable temperatures to be outside in if you're exercising.
God forbid the temperature drops below.... 10 degrees Celsius!! :eek:
 

Kappa

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What makes you think finances and attendances would be low, given that Tasmania has never, ever had professional representation at AFL level?

You couldn't be basing it off of North/Hawks games, because of course you'd be basing attendance/membership figures off of neutral fans attending games, and I don't think anyone is quite that stupid haha

Can you link the analysis that you're basing this off of?
The low population in Tasmanian cities? The bad weather? The fact the state has no tourism pull to get many traveling visitors?
 

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ThirdLegUp

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The low population in Tasmanian cities? The bad weather? The fact the state has no tourism pull to get many traveling visitors?
Low populations is very much a GOOD thing for more and more people in modern times, especially when it comes to pro sport. the equivalent of getting away from a football mad state with 5 million and going north so to speak. Tassie is a football state, but not mad... and with 500k and only 2 main hubs... much more peaceful.

The bad weather? nah, It is honestly no better or worse then Victoria, At least launie and hobart have seasons, Melbourne no longer does, just a random spin the wheel for tomorrow.

Tasmanian tourism is currently kicking ass in terms of Australia, the increase has been very nearly as much as Victoria, NSW, QLD, SA and WA combined. Of interest is also that the vast majority of these tourists are coming from China,(i hear there is a lot of them) while Mainlanders are going in greater number.

So your analysis has as much merit as... "Queensland, **** that, may as well live on the surface of the sun!" Its just exaggerated catch phrases that you have taken to heart. If the AFL can dump endless cash into states that have very small footy interest and get them up, then they can get a few Tasmanians to follow their own state team. They are a football state and they have a larger base for membership then many victorian clubs do. They deserve to be represented in an AUSTRALIAN Football League.

I dare say quite a few Mainlanders who perhaps holiday there often, like myself, will be buying lower end memberships along side their normal club membership. 3 game membership is perfect for that.
 

Engimal v3

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The low population in Tasmanian cities?
I can understand the concern with low population. In fact, it's the only one of the claims that you made that is factual. However we can see that York Park regularly draws crowds of 15-20k for two interstate teams. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to assume that a home team could get much higher attendances.

The bad weather?
I think you're joking about this one, but I'll address it anyway. In the middle of winter (July), Hobart has an average minimum temperature that is 1.4° cooler than Melbourne's. Melbourne get 1.7° warmer.

As I said, I think you're joking because only a child would use this as a reason against a Tasmanian team, but I guess I had to bite.

The fact the state has no tourism pull to get many traveling visitors?
What an absolutely absurd comment.

No tourism pull? 16% of Tasmanians are employed to some extent by the tourism industry. 10% of the Tasmanian economy is contributed from tourism (highest in the country). Even last year, Tasmania's international visitors grew by 15%, 6% higher than any other state/territory.

Tasmania is unarguably the most beautiful state in Australia. Between its vast, untouched wilderness including incredible displays of temperate rainforest, it's unique flora and fauna, it's known high-quality seafood and its award winning dairy and alcohol, it is ridiculous to say that Tasmania has no tourism pull.

I think even the most pessimistic of posters in this thread would agree that Tasmania's tourism industry is one thing that Tasmania actually has going for it. The other points I can forgive, and even understand. Low population? Sure. Cold? Yeah, it's a bit cooler. But no tourism pull? You've just outed yourself as having no idea what you're talking about.

Good try though, fella.
 

Kappa

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Low populations is very much a GOOD thing for more and more people in modern times, especially when it comes to pro sport. the equivalent of getting away from a football mad state with 5 million and going north so to speak. Tassie is a football state, but not mad... and with 500k and only 2 main hubs... much more peaceful.

The bad weather? nah, It is honestly no better or worse then Victoria, At least launie and hobart have seasons, Melbourne no longer does, just a random spin the wheel for tomorrow.

Tasmanian tourism is currently kicking ass in terms of Australia, the increase has been very nearly as much as Victoria, NSW, QLD, SA and WA combined. Of interest is also that the vast majority of these tourists are coming from China,(i hear there is a lot of them) while Mainlanders are going in greater number.

So your analysis has as much merit as... "Queensland, **** that, may as well live on the surface of the sun!" Its just exaggerated catch phrases that you have taken to heart. If the AFL can dump endless cash into states that have very small footy interest and get them up, then they can get a few Tasmanians to follow their own state team. They are a football state and they have a larger base for membership then many victorian clubs do. They deserve to be represented in an AUSTRALIAN Football League.

I dare say quite a few Mainlanders who perhaps holiday there often, like myself, will be buying lower end memberships along side their normal club membership. 3 game membership is perfect for that.
Fact 1 https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/travel-insurance/research/tourism-statistics.html

Tas below NT for tourism.

Fact 2
Hobart on average 3 degrees colder than Melbourne, and Melbourne is often bloody cold.

Fact 3
Low population definitely is a bad thing for sponsors and many young players who want big crowds and a thriving night life.

With the cost of running a footy club skyrocketing, it's, obvious a Tasmanian team will be permanently one of the smallest and poorest in the AFL, constantly requiring AFL handouts just like GWS, except in 50 years GWS will be far far bigger than Tas and generate far more revenue. The only good argument for Tasmania is the romanticism of the move, and unfortunately a mutli billion dollar industry has to act with their head, not their heart.
 

Kappa

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Cold. Pffft.
You want cold? Spend a couple of winters in New York or London.
No comparison.
Might be cold by Northern Australian standards, but it doesn't stop people going out and doing stuff.
Errrr... I think you'll find really cold and windy days actually do deter some people from going out.. As crazy as that sounds...
 

telsor

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Tasmanian tourism is currently kicking ass in terms of Australia, the increase has been very nearly as much as Victoria, NSW, QLD, SA and WA combined. Of interest is also that the vast majority of these tourists are coming from China,(i hear there is a lot of them) while Mainlanders are going in greater number.
Source?

I ask because a quick look at the state government stats for Tas & Vic have tourism expenditure up 5.4% to $2.46 Billion in Tas (year to Dec 2018), while in Vic (year to Sep2018) it's up 8.4% to $28.2 Billion. (I didn't bother checking other states), so I'm curious where you're getting this surprising information from.

My sources are...
https://www.tourismtasmania.com.au/research/visitors
https://corporate.visitvictoria.com/news/visitor-statistics-hitting-new-heights-in-victoria
 

ThirdLegUp

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Fact 1 https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/travel-insurance/research/tourism-statistics.html

Tas below NT for tourism.

Fact 2
Hobart on average 3 degrees colder than Melbourne, and Melbourne is often bloody cold.

Fact 3
Low population definitely is a bad thing for sponsors and many young players who want big crowds and a thriving night life.

With the cost of running a footy club skyrocketing, it's, obvious a Tasmanian team will be permanently one of the smallest and poorest in the AFL, constantly requiring AFL handouts just like GWS, except in 50 years GWS will be far far bigger than Tas and generate far more revenue. The only good argument for Tasmania is the romanticism of the move, and unfortunately a mutli billion dollar industry has to act with their head, not their heart.
Here is the latest report on such matters

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...iven-by-chinese-tourists-report-says/10701274

Future mate, that is where we are going, not backwards. Tasmania has been ignored and untouched until only recently. The infrastructure work, hospitality industry, mainland and international investment... you name it is in full swing in TAS. Things are changing down there, shock horror i know, but it is true. Tasmania has a future, AFL is seeing this. Downplaying Tasmania behind the entire nations advertising of Ularu is very underhanded. SA was not exactly glowing in report you used either.

International visitor numbers
States and territories Growth
Tas 15 pc
ACT 9 pc
Vic 6 pc
Qld 5 pc
SA 4 pc
NSW 3 pc
WA 1 pc
NT -1 pc


your 2nd "fact" is hilarious... so tassie is warmer then Ballarat on average... an hour down the road from Melb? the nerve of anyone playing football in such an environment!

Your Fact 3 is apparently trapped in 1970. Sponsors will be any and every business in Tasmania who can get their name on TV as part of the new club, you know that black box in every home?

Big crowds? they will get a bigger average crowd then GC or GWS have, without even trying.

The nightlife is fine in Hobart, i assume you mean the lines of cafe's where the modern pretentious soy drinking tossers/footballer hang out? Hobart has that to acceptable levels, with better food to boot.
 

telsor

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I can understand the concern with low population. In fact, it's the only one of the claims that you made that is factual. However we can see that York Park regularly draws crowds of 15-20k for two interstate teams. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to assume that a home team could get much higher attendances.
a) ~20K is capacity, so yeah, without significant work, it is unreasonable to expect much more.
b) 20K is still a really low crowd by AFL standards, and teams that only get those sorts of numbers (sub 30K really) generally need to be propped up.
 

ThirdLegUp

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Source?

I ask because a quick look at the state government stats for Tas & Vic have tourism expenditure up 5.4% to $2.46 Billion in Tas (year to Dec 2018), while in Vic (year to Sep2018) it's up 8.4% to $28.2 Billion. (I didn't bother checking other states), so I'm curious where you're getting this surprising information from.

My sources are...
https://www.tourismtasmania.com.au/research/visitors
https://corporate.visitvictoria.com/news/visitor-statistics-hitting-new-heights-in-victoria
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...iven-by-chinese-tourists-report-says/10701274
 

telsor

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Here is the latest report on such matters

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...iven-by-chinese-tourists-report-says/10701274

Future mate, that is where we are going, not backwards. Tasmania has been ignored and untouched until only recently. The infrastructure work, hospitality industry, mainland and international investment... you name it is in full swing in TAS. Things are changing down there, shock horror i know, but it is true. Tasmania has a future, AFL is seeing this. Downplaying Tasmania behind the entire nations advertising of Ularu is very underhanded. SA was not exactly glowing in report you used either.

International visitor numbers
States and territories Growth
Tas 15 pc
ACT 9 pc
Vic 6 pc
Qld 5 pc
SA 4 pc
NSW 3 pc
WA 1 pc
NT -1 pc


your 2nd "fact" is hilarious... so tassie is warmer then Ballarat on average... an hour down the road from Melb? the nerve of anyone playing football in such an environment!

Your Fact 3 is apparently trapped in 1970. Sponsors will be any and every business in Tasmania who can get their name on TV as part of the new club, you know that black box in every home?

Big crowds? they will get a bigger average crowd then GC or GWS have, without even trying.

The nightlife is fine in Hobart, i assume you mean the lines of cafe's where the modern pretentious soy drinking tossers/footballer hang out? Hobart has that to acceptable levels, with better food to boot.
Percentages don't mean much by themselves...percentage off what base? going to 115 from 100 is a 15% jump, which looks impressive, but I think most would prefer to go to 106,000 from 100,000.

Also, those numbers are for international tourists...not likely to pump up AFL crowds too much, especially in Tas.
 

telsor

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Thank you.

Do you really think international tourists are going to buy a lot of tickets to AFL games in Tas?
If not, it's not especially relevant.....except to point out the really low base we're talking about.

To dissect the numbers...
Tas 307K, up 15% or 40K (from your article) and it's a big boom.
Vic 3Million, up 5.4% (by my source, yours says 6%) which would be something around 150K.

https://www.business.vic.gov.au/tourism-industry-resources/research/international-research
 

Engimal v3

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a) ~20K is capacity, so yeah, without significant work, it is unreasonable to expect much more.
b) 20K is still a really low crowd by AFL standards, and teams that only get those sorts of numbers (sub 30K really) generally need to be propped up.
I'd be surprised if a Tasmanian side wasn't packaged with some stadium upgrades in terms of capacity, especially given that it'd become a finals venue. Liberal/Labor are already using a potential AFL team as a bargaining chip, so an actual one would no doubt bring upgrades.

With the 30k Breakeven number, I gather than you're talking about Etihad. It's true that, until the AFL takeover, a home team needed ~30k in attendance at Etihad to even break even. However at interstate grounds, and even the MCG, you need nowhere near as much. North makes more money from 12k at Blundstone than 30k at Etihad.
 
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