News Taylor Adams coming to Pies? Hine: "Yeah, I think so"

What do you reckon about this drawn out trade?


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year of the cat

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Yes you can, its called a contract, both parties have to agree and if we don't he stays.

Happened with Wayne Campbell at the Tiges when he was their skipper, played his career out with no issues.

More recent example was Ryan OKeefe trying to go to the Blues, fell over, stayed and no problems.
Those two situations were different to the Shaw one though. Neither Richmond nor Swans wanted Campbell or O'Keefe to leave. In this case Buckley can't wait to see Shaw pack his bags.
 

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MarkT2

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Yes you can, its called a contract, both parties have to agree and if we don't he stays.

Happened with Wayne Campbell at the Tiges when he was their skipper, played his career out with no issues.

More recent example was Ryan OKeefe trying to go to the Blues, fell over, stayed and no problems.
The difference between the Shaw situation and the others is fundamental. We have told Shaw he must go and we have publicly aired culture issues which very clearly link back to Shaw (amoung others).

There is no turning back. Tactically, as usual, we have shot ourselves in the foot. We FARKNING stink at this stuff. A handful of good deals in more than 20 years. Buckley, Rocca, Clement and I can't think of another. Sydney and Hawthorn leave us for dead.

What Sydney did with O'Keefe and back in time Hawthorn did with Buckanara we should have done with Paul Williams (and we didn't trade Willaims for Clement & Holland).
 

dubber

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Those two situations were different to the Shaw one though. Neither Richmond nor Swans wanted Campbell or O'Keefe to leave. In this case Buckley can't wait to see Shaw pack his bags.
I am amazed at people making these statements as if they are being told so by Heath or Buckley themselves.
Do you know Shaw was given time to think about if he wanted to leave? He decided might be best to change the scenery. paraphrasing his manager here.
 

morgoth

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Those two situations were different to the Shaw one though. Neither Richmond nor Swans wanted Campbell or O'Keefe to leave. In this case Buckley can't wait to see Shaw pack his bags.
Reversed, player wants to stay, coach wants them out.

Coach changes his mind, player stays.

No different, just needs one party to move. In both cases the players were contracted meaning the club has to agree, as we do in this case. We will move him on if we get the deal we want, if not...................
 

Old Spice

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One thing I was just thinking about (Because White to Collingwood will not be finalized before Shaw & Adams)......What could play out:

Shaw says he wants to go to Geelong. You are not agreeing on a price because you want overs. While you are trying to make this deal, Geelong could blind side you and get Adams. Then you keep Shaw. Not the worse outcome but......

OR

If Shaw nominates Geelong, would you send your first rounder straight away to GWS for adams (maybe exchange of later picks)? (because you will still have the compo pick) To lock that up, and then either get a really good deal out of Geelong or Keep shaw. (With daisy gone you would have some breathing space in the cap.)

Because I really do not see a 3 way deal working out with shaw going from collingwood to geelong especially when Adams narrowed his options down to collingwood or geelong.

Just my take.

Or, we now use our Thomas compensation pick 11 and give it to GWS for Adams.

Then we trade Shaw to GWS for pick 9. If things break-down with Shaw we keep him.

So, Adams and 9 OR Adams and Shaw. I think you'll find it will work out something like that.
 

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Those two situations were different to the Shaw one though. Neither Richmond nor Swans wanted Campbell or O'Keefe to leave. In this case Buckley can't wait to see Shaw pack his bags.
Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

Waiting to here the "official" news but latest whispers going around is that GWS and Collingwood are working out the final details of a deal that will see Shaw take the $$$ and head to Western Sydney for Taylor Adams.
 

morgoth

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The difference ebtween the Shaw situation and the others is fundamntal. We have told shaw he must go and we have publicly aired culture issues which very clearly link back to Shaw (amoung others).

There is no turning back. Tactically, as usual, we have shot ourselves in the foot. We FARKNING stink at this stuff. A handful of good deals in more than 20 years. Buckley, Rocca, Clement and I can't think of another. Sydney and Hawthorn leave us for dead.

What Sydney did with O'Keefe and back in time Hawthorn did with Buckanara we should have done with Paul Williams (and we didn't trade Willaims for Clement & Holland).
Rubbish, provided both parties are prepared to talk it can always be sorted out.

Yeah we are so bad, we got Ball for nothing, Jolly the ruckman we needed to flag and last year we got first round picks for second tier players.

We really stink.
 

Shpeshal Ed

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The ideal for us would be Shaw for Adams straight swap.

That way we can keep 10 and 11, use 27 on white, third rounder on Karnezis. Would be very happy wih that.

Hopefully Heath doesn't try and find ANOTHER way to cost us something important.
 

MarkT2

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Rubbish, provided both parties are prepared to talk it can always be sorted out.

Yeah we are so bad, we got Ball for nothing, Jolly the ruckman we needed to flag and last year we got first round picks for second tier players.

We really stink.
We got Ball for pick 35 which we offered in a trade and/or a player (Goldsack/Wellingham). Saints F'd up very clearly. We got Jolly for a first round pick. Good deal - accept that. Last year we got end of first round picks for premiership players. Nothing the least but startling there but we did slip back a fair bit in part as a result. We lacked a good mid, which Wellingham is, and a tall forward.

Do you really think we trade well?

Look, Buckley clearly has a problem with Shaw and the president has backed him 100%. There is no truning back here. Sometimes you get a point of no return.
 

morgoth

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We got Ball for pick 35 which we offered in a trade and/or a player (Goldsack/Wellingham). Saints F'd up very clearly. We got Jolly for a first round pick. Good deal - accept that. Last year we got end of first round picks for premiership players. Nothing the least but startling there but we did slip back a fair bit in part as a result. We lacked a good mid, which Wellingham is, and a tall forward.

Do you really think we trade well?

Look, Buckley clearly has a problem with Shaw and the president has backed him 100%. There is no truning back here. Sometimes you get a point of no return.
Well you don't cut off your nose despite your face either. If we get a deal we like he is gone but if not they will be prepared to sort things out. Bucks is not stupid, he is not perfect either but the club is not going to short change itself.

I think the last 2 years have been derailed by the change of coach and the actions being taken this year are designed to sort that out once and for all. All of the MM crew are now pretty much gone. Not saying it will see us back in flag contention straight away but it is Buckley's team now and it we will get to see whether he can coach and lead the club.
 

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DaVe86

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We got Ball for pick 35 which we offered in a trade and/or a player (Goldsack/Wellingham). Saints F'd up very clearly. We got Jolly for a first round pick. Good deal - accept that. Last year we got end of first round picks for premiership players. Nothing the least but startling there but we did slip back a fair bit in part as a result. We lacked a good mid, which Wellingham is, and a tall forward.

Do you really think we trade well?

Look, Buckley clearly has a problem with Shaw and the president has backed him 100%. There is no truning back here. Sometimes you get a point of no return.
Yes we trade well.

The question is whether we coach well.

I think Dawes walked because we got Lynch and he fall out with Buckley. Pick 20 was a good return.

Wellingham has always talked about going home. To get pick 17 (Grundy) for him was good return.

Obviously the recruiting of players like Ball, Jolly, Tarrant and Krakouer were all good outcomes.

We also draft very well. We seem to get our first picks right and get great rookies.

The main concern is the loss of 4 premiership players in the last 2 years...and a few others retiring or getting delisted.

However, on the trade table we get good return for our players...and the last 4 years we seem to have received every player we have targetted.

Say what you want about Lynch and Young, but there was interest elsewhere and we convinved them to come to us. Seemingly we have done the same with White and Adams. Fingers crossed they come through.
 
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Scott Burns on SEN yesterday said he was 'excited' about Collingwood's playing group because normally a team that uses 40 players in a season is around the bottom 3 whereas we played finals. We are doing a pretty good job of transitioning and if a few things go our way this trade period we will still be a good side next year. Never any guarantees but I'm excited about 2015/2016.
 

morgoth

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Agree Dave 86, in most cases we get serious consideration from players we go after. Compare that to GWS, the Dees and Aints for example. All you can ask is that we create an environment where players are prepared to come to us. We have done that. The way way trading works means that we can't win em all, sometimes it will be money, ability to get the trade done etc.

But we give ourselves a realistic chance in most cases.
 

DaVe86

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Scott Burns on SEN yesterday said he was 'excited' about Collingwood's playing group because normally a team that uses 40 players in a season is around the bottom 3 whereas we played finals. We are doing a pretty good job of transitioning and if a few things go our way this trade period we will still be a good side next year. Never any guarantees but I'm excited about 2015/2016.
I'm with you. We rebuilt and played finals in the one year. I don't think 2013 is the trainwreck we all consider it to be.
 

morgoth

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Scott Burns on SEN yesterday said he was 'excited' about Collingwood's playing group because normally a team that uses 40 players in a season is around the bottom 3 whereas we played finals. We are doing a pretty good job of transitioning and if a few things go our way this trade period we will still be a good side next year. Never any guarantees but I'm excited about 2015/2016.
I am so happy to have Scotty back. I know I am seeing it through black and white eyes but I reckon he and Bucks will be a great combo. I spent most of this year miserable re how we were going but since we beat the Swans I have been feeling a lot more upbeat.

This team can play some damn good footy, we just need to get them doing it consistently, how fast we can do that will dictate how fast we recover.
 

year of the cat

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Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

Waiting to here the "official" news but latest whispers going around is that GWS and Collingwood are working out the final details of a deal that will see Shaw take the $$$ and head to Western Sydney for Taylor Adams.
Not trying to convince anyone. I just find the machinations of this trade with Adams/Shaw and GWS/Pies/Cats an interesting one.
 

Jelly Bean

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You raise a really good point and have seen some comments on this board that might make it smart for us to trade 11 for Adams ASAP. Once he is off the table Geelong either have to deal well for Shaw or go home empty handed.

GWS have pick 9 so we can still trade for Shaw if he changes his mind re GWS.

Tactically I think it makes sense.
We don't have pick 11 yet...
 

morgoth

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True. Good point. Shows reconciliation can occur.
In reality if a deal gets done and Cats fans feel like they paid overs and pies fans feel like they got under's then it is probably a fair outcome. Trades have to be win/win for both parties. Pies fans had to watch MM offer up junk for years and then wonder why he could not get deals done. Only when Walsh came and we started trading fairly did it improve.

The only clubs that you can probably get overs for at the moment as a player and opposing club are GWS and Melbourne as both stink on field and therefore have to offer extra to get things done. In particular after missing on Buddy GWS will be desperate for some experience and the AFL will be pushing them to improve their on field performance ASAP.

As such I think any deal for Shaw will involve GWS either directly or indirectly.
 

dubber

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Do you really think we trade well?
Yes, we are probably one of the best for trading and drafting even if you ask a neutral.

How many games did Wellingham and Dawes play last year? You ask yourself a question if Dawes would have won the game against Carlton in round 2 when Jolly went down.

People are quick to sink boots in to Lynch but he manfully ruck'd that day and was pivotal in us winning the game.

You ask yourself another question. Do we want Wellingham or kennedy? Kennedy is already working his backside off so he can play all games next year, no points for guessing what Wellingham is upto.

I mean we picked up Sam Dwyer for crying out loud... Is that not good?
 
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Not trying to convince anyone. I just find the machinations of this trade with Adams/Shaw and GWS/Pies/Cats an interesting one.
And indeed it has been lovely to have you as our guest during these trying negotiations Year Of The Cat.

I too am fascinated with the workings of this trade and also the potential symmetry involved. The Cats nailed last year's marquee player in Josh Caddy, reportedly a one time Collingwood supporter whose uncle worked at The Collingwood Football Club and whose family lived in Eltham, which is really not that far from ... Collingwood.
 

MarkT2

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FMD we do everything well and we've won 2 flags in more than half a century. It just doesn't add up. Armed with a very very good list we won 1 flag and went close to a second.

We do draft well these days. We develop talent well. Unfortunaly we also backslap and cheer like screaming schoolgirls better than anyone else and we redefine success to include our results with excuses to qualify for our failings.

The results are the arbiter. Everything else is subjective.

Do we really think our results are good? Not good by Melbourne's measure and not good by comparrisons to averages but good bty measure against thn best? We should be nothing short of the best resouced and most successful club but here we are yet again wasting the chance to win multiple flags.

Hawthorn are the measuring stick. They draft, develop, trade and maintain well and they win flags through and accross eras. Unless we do everything better than everyone we won't beat everyone. Egos have once again taken control and sucked the potential from our success.
 
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