Taylor Swift

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phantom13

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And then she re-released it 11 years later in extended form, along with a video clip dramatising the relationship. So yes, she bears responsibility for that. And I question whether he actually did anything so heinous to deserve such a prolonged smear. If it were a male artist, he'd have been urged to get over it already instead of dissing a former girlfriend for a decade and counting.
So Scooter not releasing her masters and the decision to re record her albums is all some elaborate ruse just to drag Jake again?

Seems unlikely.

Probably gotta move on from the "if it were a male" thing dude, its totally irrelevant.
 

phantom13

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And then she re-released it 11 years later in extended form, along with a video clip dramatising the relationship.
I don't recall saying that.

I'll be the judge of that.
Her reason for re releasing it has nothing to do with Jake, shes literally done other re recorded albums for a very well known reason. So should she have dropped this song? Wouldnt that have raised more speculation.

The whole "if she were a male" thing might be relevant to you but it really isnt to anyone else. So cool? I guess.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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Her reason for re releasing it has nothing to do with Jake, shes literally done other re recorded albums for a very well known reason. So should she have dropped this song? Wouldnt that have raised more speculation.

The whole "if she were a male" thing might be relevant to you but it really isnt to anyone else. So cool? I guess.
If you're not interested in the discussion, that's fine too.
 

ams4crows

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And then she re-released it 11 years later in extended form, along with a video clip dramatising the relationship. So yes, she bears responsibility for that. And I question whether he actually did anything so heinous to deserve such a prolonged smear. If it were a male artist, he'd have been urged to get over it already instead of dissing a former girlfriend for a decade and counting.
I call bullshit, because Male artist's art isn't reduced to gossip about who it's about it's appreciated as art. None of these people ever listened to the songs of Dylan and said "oh really Bob? She let you down? Maybe you weren't a good partner. Did the woman respond to this song? Let's ask her."
It is assumed that women can only be "muses" for men and that women's experiences exist not as an equal human story but only as a catalyst for some man's enlightenment or personal progress. We do not allow women their stories without "fact-checking" with men.

People will listen to the works of other men all day and say "sure he abused women but he was a great artist!" Eric Clapton " was allegedly a mentally and physically abusive rapist (per Patty Boyd) but men will still say "oh but his songs are great."

But Taylor writes an album about a manipulative, narcissistic boyfriend who cheats and suddenly it's "maybe it's her fault that she was emotionally abused."

Our whole social narrative is blaming women for men's "weakness." Listening to women's stories is how we stop that.
 

phantom13

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If you're not interested in the discussion, that's fine too.
I mean, there isnt really a discussion to be had, there is no example of it so youre just speculating really. Im not saying its irrelevant to the overall topic (i mean i am but not in this instance) im saying its an irrelevant discussion point cause its just your opinion with no real basis.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I call bullshit, because Male artist's art isn't reduced to gossip about who it's about it's appreciated as art. None of these people ever listened to the songs of Dylan and said "oh really Bob? She let you down? Maybe you weren't a good partner. Did the woman respond to this song? Let's ask her."
It is assumed that women can only be "muses" for men and that women's experiences exist not as an equal human story but only as a catalyst for some man's enlightenment or personal progress. We do not allow women their stories without "fact-checking" with men.

People will listen to the works of other men all day and say "sure he abused women but he was a great artist!" Eric Clapton " was allegedly a mentally and physically abusive rapist (per Patty Boyd) but men will still say "oh but his songs are great."

But Taylor writes an album about a manipulative, narcissistic boyfriend who cheats and suddenly it's "maybe it's her fault that she was emotionally abused."

Our whole social narrative is blaming women for men's "weakness." Listening to women's stories is how we stop that.
That's not the issue.
 

Sweet Jesus

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I mean, there isnt really a discussion to be had, there is no example of it so youre just speculating really. Im not saying its irrelevant to the overall topic (i mean i am but not in this instance) im saying its an irrelevant discussion point cause its just your opinion with no real basis.
You think it's irrelevant because you don't agree. That's fine.

By all means enlighten us to what the issue is then.
I'm satisfied with my posts on the topic. It's also fine if you don't agree. Reasonable people may differ.
 

phantom13

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I'm satisfied with my posts on the topic. It's also fine if you don't agree. Reasonable people may differ.
I doubt anyone could agree with you, youve actually not said anything that anyone could agree or disagree with really. Keen to point out what the issue isnt, totally unable or unwilling to point out what the issue is.
 

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Sweet Jesus

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I doubt anyone could agree with you, youve actually not said anything that anyone could agree or disagree with really. Keen to point out what the issue isnt, totally unable or unwilling to point out what the issue is.
You can read my posts over the past couple of pages if you're interested in my thoughts. We don't have to agree. That's fine.
 

peternorth

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Do we really need to keep going with this? Nobody is gonna agree.

I do like the original of All Too Well more than the extended version.
Yes, i kinda agree. It doesnt have the same punch the original does. 10 min one ebbs, flows, crescendos, comes down, then up again and down again. But the original has a better flow and ending.
 

peternorth

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As for the topic some posters are discussing, I guess unless a male vocalist (let's name him Taylor) sings a song about his relationship with a person (called Jacquie), records a longer version at the time and releases it 10+ years later.....we'll never know the outcome or reaction
 

Sweet Jesus

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As for the topic some posters are discussing, I guess unless a male vocalist (let's name him Taylor) sings a song about his relationship with a person (called Jacquie), records a longer version at the time and releases it 10+ years later.....we'll never know the outcome or reaction
Regardless, I think it's OTT to go back and mine the drama of her personal life, for another bite of the cherry and now with an even bigger magnifying glass, 11 years after it happened. Like, really, we're doing this again? In even more minute detail, and now with a short film just to make it all doubly and triply clear? Because some guy broke up with her in 2010? I believe the expression among millennials would be "played out".
 

phantom13

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Regardless, I think it's OTT to go back and mine the drama of her personal life, for another bite of the cherry and now with an even bigger magnifying glass, 11 years after it happened. Like, really, we're doing this again? In even more minute detail, and now with a short film just to make it all doubly and triply clear? Because some guy broke up with her in 2010? I believe the expression among millennials would be "played out".
I can see the point with the film, fair enough, but shes not mining anything with the re record, it was done for completely transparent reasons.

Also shes re recorded a bunch of songs about her exes now why is it just this one thats got you so worked up?
 

phantom13

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On topic, the video is pretty heartbreaking (speculation and innuendo aside).

As a representation of the subject and understanding the heartbreak a 20 year old feels its really poignant and O'Brien and Sink are great.

The song is amazing, lyrically as well.

Really enjoyed this re release.
 

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