Taylor up forward... Why?

[dazbroncos]

Taylor is done as a defender. May be done as a footballer. But let's give him a shot in the forward line first before we retire him.

Had the lowest goal percentage kicked on him last year as a individual defender.. yup.. cooked.

Go Catters

 

[CatTricks]

Leave Harry back.
Hawk to CHF.
Stanley FF.
Good luck beating Stanley to the ball over 20-50 meters.

 

[Seeds]

Had the lowest goal percentage kicked on him last year as a individual defender.. yup.. cooked.

Go Catters

And didn't play on the main goal kicking forward once in the whole season. Rance didn't make it in the top 20 in that list.

 

[Gavin Excell]

As a forward what is Taylor capable of that Stanley isn't?

Can mark?

 

[Partridge]

As a forward what is Taylor capable of that Stanley isn't?

Maybe - stress the word maybe - consistency. It's what stops Stanley being much more dangerous and effective. He has all the tools.

 

[catempire]

Maybe - stress the word maybe - consistency. It's what stops Stanley being much more dangerous and effective. He has all the tools.

The maybe qualification is critical there because we've never seen Taylor as a forward for a stretch of games.

I'm just not seeing it with Taylor forward. And that's not even considering what it robs us of in defence.

 

[Seeds]

As a forward what is Taylor capable of that Stanley isn't?

Probably consistency. Plus Stanley will be rucking half the time given he is our best ruck. Although apparently is injured at the moment so relying on him to play two of the most important positions on the field this year might not be the smartest move.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think it's a great move. We now have a bit more depth and composure down in the back half with kolo being able to take on bigger roles in 17, they will be looking for him to step up a bit. They also have Henderson who is our no1 and lonergan to shut down. They are well covered for talls.

We lack experience and depth up forward and especially a second tall. Great move as he is probably our best forward option after Hawkins. Will also need a lot of attention from defenders and will detract a bit from Hawkins. It got painfully obvious when we had no options to go to, that we where going to kick it long to Hawkins. We need that extra quality talk who can also provide a good option. Kersten simply didn't do this.

I am not worried about our forward line dynamics this year, the transition out of defence is probably the biggest one which will create new patterns and unpredictability up forward. Our smalls are going to improve off last year somewhat too. The side should be much more balanced offensively this season as opposed to last

 

[catswhiskers]

By the sounds it's going to be closer to a permanent thing... Didn't mind it against Richmond but don't think it won us the game - they just capitulated in true Richmond fashion.

Have watched the last quarter and a half of that game a couple of times to see why we were able to score so freely. One thing that did happen was Taylor was sent forward and after a couple of involvements himself, Hardwick made the mistake of switching Rance off Hawkins and on to Taylor. By the time he realised his mistake Hawkins had played his part in the revival.

I think other than these small snippets of what MIGHT be possible I am of the view that Taylor needs a new role to refresh him. Many have pointed out how stale he looked last year(I hope I paraphrase correctly). The work being done to improve forward efficiency is necessary and hopefully will be successful. If Taylor is a part of that success we may see him playing quality footy for longer than otherwise would be the case.

 

[Stucky]

We have always had 2 solid key forwards in the last 10 years. Mooney/Ablett Mooney/Hawkins Hawkins/JPod. Since JPod left we have had a hole. You have to work with what you've got and moving Taylor forward is a no brainier for me.

In the prelim we dominated the Swans in inside 50's 72-40. Our disposal into the 50 was average but with Hawkins being well held by Grundy it showed we needed another forward who could take a mark.

With Henderson into his 2nd year and being familiar with his co defenders l think he's ready to take responsibility of the 2nd key forward. Kolo will take the 3rd defender and play the role Henderson was playing last year. l also think we played too tall down there last year. For people saying Lonergan should of retired last year, l disagree l thought he was great last year. If it wasn't for his last qrt against the Hawks we wouldn't of made the prelim.

I'm all for this move and we saw the trend of more attacking football rather that defensive. With the improvement of our 2nd and 3rd tier midfielders we should be backing them to provide our forwards more so than what the opposition will provide their forwards.

 

[Partridge]

The maybe qualification is critical there because we've never seen Taylor as a forward for a stretch of games.

I'm just not seeing it with Taylor forward. And that's not even considering what it robs us of in defence.

Yep. I'm not especially keen on it either, but resigning myself to seeing it very soon.

 

[winty]

Had the lowest goal percentage kicked on him last year as a individual defender.. yup.. cooked.

Go Catters

Haven't seen Taylor's figures, but Hendo conceded 18 goals in 18 games according to the AFL Prospectus. That would be right up there.

 

[Partridge]

Haven't seen Taylor's figures, but Hendo conceded 18 goals in 18 games according to the AFL Prospectus. That would be right up there.

Very different discussion to what we're having, but I thought Henderson was our best defender last season.

 

[00VicWard001]

Maybe I was a bit harsh, but personally if anyone we should try Hendo up forward more often, as he actually used to be a forward.

Yes, of course you are right that Henderson has shown a lot more than Harry in the forward line.

It's probably that idea that Harry could be a stop-gap for the next two years before we train/find our ideal CHF. No doubt the recruiters are putting in a lot of work on a CHF at another club who may be out of contract by then. At the same time, they are looking at who we have (Tom Henry is a very likely type) and who is coming through.

Henderson needs to become the General of our backline for the next 5 years. Harry and Boris stepping out means that the responsibility falls on him and Mackie (who will no doubt be a coach/player type). Henderson will be the one who mentors the young guys coming in - so he needs to be there. Tuohy may end up as a Heath Shaw type.

 

[00VicWard001]

As a forward what is Taylor capable of that Stanley isn't?

Leadership, staying involved the game a lot longer. Better at reading the ball and the play. Is naturally respected by opposition players ALOT more and therefore, they won't peel off him as easily to cover Hawk. Is probably a better kick too. And probably could develop a better synergy with Hawk, since as a player who has practised defending against him, he probably understands Hawks running patterns. Lastly, more instinctive when it comes to being in the right space.

Stanley is still young, he will learn and improve, but Harry Taylor has established himself as elite.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I don't think anyone can say with any great conviction just how a move of Harry Taylor to the forward line will work.

But I can see why the club would consider such a move; the forward line was largely dysfunctional last year despite the team regularly generating healthy forward entry numbers (the quality of those entries was debatable though).

Rhys Stanley and Shane Kersten provided sporadic support to Hawkins, and when Menzel has his tail up he is nearly the perfect foil for Tom Hawkins despite not being a true KF by any stretch.
But Menzel will probably always need to be managed carefully, Shane Kersten walked and Rhys Stanley never quite shows the consistency nor the smarts to entirely convince.

Is Taylor the answer?
Not long-term, no.
But despite some arguing that his form is falling away late in his career (I'd debate that), few could convincingly argue that he isn't a smart footballer. I think he has enough nous to make some sort of an impact, and although I don't think the current solution is ideal, I'm backing Harry in to make the most of it.

If the club had a different mindset then I'd be happy to see Esava Ratugolea or Timm House given an opportunity early on; both will be raw but both look to have talent and neither will be pushed around; they are both big and strong enough to take the hits that will come their way (I acknowledge their respective chances of running out games strongly would be a problem). But as long as CS and the club believe that we are in the mix for a flag (I have doubts) then solutions like the current proposal will continue to supersede genuine development of youthful prospects.

 

[00VicWard001]

I am not worried about our forward line dynamics this year, the transition out of defence is probably the biggest one which will create new patterns and unpredictability up forward. Our smalls are going to improve off last year somewhat too. The side should be much more balanced offensively this season as opposed to last

I am seriously getting excited about our attacking defence. It is seriously fast and has quality use. And they are big agile flankers too who will hammer some small forwards. I can seriously see Bews, Tuohy, Stewart and Thurlow hunting and hurting (in fair play) smaller forwards like Betts and Rioli. The bigger guys like Kolo, Lonergan and Hendo spoiling, the smaller guys swooping on the balls and rebounding it out at pace. )))

And if they link right with Danger, Guthrie, Lang, Cockatoo, Mots and Duncan, that forward line is going to be fed quality balls repeatedly to one on one or two on two contests. Now, think Hawk or Taylor lingering at half forward and delivering sharp passes to the other leading back at them from the goal square. Or Danger, Cocky, Guthrie and Mots taking shots from 50, or Duncan, Lang, Mots and Selwood spotting up Taylor or Hawkins, or Menzel or Hawk one out in the goal square, McCarthy, Lang, Mots or Cockatoo roving off the feet of the big forward (obviously we don't have multiple Langs, Motlop's, Cockatoo's and Duncan's in the team, but I'm painting a picture of the scenarios).

 

[Sttew]

Drop Blicavs is the easy answer.

He is like a square peg in a round hole. Last year was a disappointment; unless he finds a permanent position he won't survive.

 

[you pick one]

Desperation to save Scott's arse? still rather play Harry there than the one man short decoy bullshit.

 

[you pick one]

He is like a square peg in a round hole. Last year was a disappointment; unless he finds a permanent position he won't survive.

Needs to sue the AFL for restriction of trade.

 

[00VicWard001]

He is like a square peg in a round hole. Last year was a disappointment; unless he finds a permanent position he won't survive.

I saw him yesterday. He is even bigger than last year and looks a lot stronger in the upper body and quite physically hardened and mature.

 

[Seeds]

He is like a square peg in a round hole. Last year was a disappointment; unless he finds a permanent position he won't survive.

I think his best bet is as a third tall defender. But even with Taylor in the forward line there is still no room for him in defence unless we want to drop Kolo. He really doesn't fit at Geelong. Could be quite handy for other teams though.

 

[RedVest4]

Would've thought last year's prelim would've answered that question. What was it again? 72 inside 50s, mostly bombs to Hawkins with three blokes on him which resulted in 8 goals? If we had a genuine 2nd tall target down there, it would've spread the defenders a lot more as they would have had more than one player to keep an eye on.

As for playing Taylor forward, the guy has shown he's hard to beat one-on-one in defence. Henderson and Lonergan have shown they can hold down the fort down back, with Kolo steadily improving as well. Why not utilise Harry's one-on-one prowess in an attacking sense instead of a defensive one?

Uhh didn't Hendo play up forward in the prelim? All those inside 50s didn't equate to anything with him up there... Give Hawkins space and let the smalls run around up there. Gives our forward line unpredictability and fixes our horrid inside 50 entries.

We have too many talls in defence and not enough forward. This move should of been made four years ago and been made permanently. Taylor had a very average year last year in defence. The goal kicking argument is silly as he played at centre half back or even as a loose defender at times. Henderson and Lonergan always got the main goal kicking forward. We deseperately need an extra marking option on the forward line to prevent Hawkins from being double teamed all day. Did you not watch any football in the past three years where we constantly got beaten at centre half forward? Menzel helped a bit last year but still not enough and he is still injury prone. Only seems to be fit once every three weeks.

We have too many talls in general. And yeah I've been watching the last 3 years and I put us getting beaten at CHF down to Scott's shitty game plan.

 

[catempire]

Leadership, staying involved the game a lot longer. Better at reading the ball and the play. Is naturally respected by opposition players ALOT more and therefore, they won't peel off him as easily to cover Hawk. Is probably a better kick too. And probably could develop a better synergy with Hawk, since as a player who has practised defending against him, he probably understands Hawks running patterns. Lastly, more instinctive when it comes to being in the right space.

Stanley is still young, he will learn and improve, but Harry Taylor has established himself as elite.

You put the case as well I've seen it. I'd just qualify what you say: Taylor is an elite defender. We have no idea whether he's anything better than an adequate pinch hitter as a forward.

 

[catempire]

He is like a square peg in a round hole. Last year was a disappointment; unless he finds a permanent position he won't survive.

They've been clear they have no intention of doing that and he will continue to play multiple roles as required.