Taylor up forward... Why?

[Cronin]

Who

Lonergan

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He never looked like kicking a goal - the number 1 KPI of a forward. He has no forward craft. He's not going to develop it at his age.

If he had no forward craft he wouldn't get to the right spots or find the ball which he did today.

His no1 issue is a fwd is his 9 iron kicking style which is fine when you are kicking 20m to a teammate in a back pocket (which is what he is used to) but doesn't cut it when you are kicking for goal from 40-50m out. Whether that's any easy think for a goalkicking coach to fix or too difficult to change in a 30yo i don't know.

 

[Cronin]

No I disagree... if we are playing Henderson in D to embed him for the long term , then Taylor should there as well. We have so many new players down deep , Taylors experience and direction is required down there.

That's what I wrote, my whole argument regards Taylor being needed in defence.

 

[catempire]

If he had no forward craft he wouldn't get to the right spots or find the ball which he did today.

His no1 issue is a fwd is his 9 iron kicking style which is fine when you are kicking 20m to a teammate in a back pocket (which is what he is used to) but doesn't cut it when you are kicking for goal from 40-50m out. Whether that's any easy think for a goalkicking coach to fix or too difficult to change in a 30yo i don't know.

Forward craft = getting to the right spots and then kicking the goal (or giving it to a teammate that does so). This is what Harry will never be above average at.

 

[Seeds]

He never looked like kicking a goal - the number 1 KPI of a forward. He has no forward craft. He's not going to develop it at his age.

A set shot miss from 30. Please. he has kicked that heaps of time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The biggest issue..? If Harry is our 2nd best , then we do not have a 2nd best.. its Hawkins and daylight. And what Id say is the biggest issue of Taylor in the forwardline is the damage its doing to his confidence. He has not looked comfortable at anytime this year , and when he finally gets the ball to have a shot ..he looks like a cross between Mooney and Cloke. As I said in the game thread..he looked like a blind man looking for soap today. Really just trying with a lot of hope and no confidence in that he will find it. If Lonergan has no gorrila to wrestle with and he is going to have to be replaced then we may as well play him forward , 2 or 3 out on the fulls today..but id say after a game or two he would be better than what Taylor is in the role.. and Taylor is our future..why risk messing him up. Or if we are going to play a no stats forward (so to speak) play one of the kids .

If people think taylor is bad as a forward lonergan would be non existent. Taylor can actually mark and tackle and not give away HTB frees for a start. Unless he is playing on cloke (about the only type of opponent suitable for him now) lonergan's position is nowhere IMO.

 

[Seeds]

Forward craft = getting to the right spots and then kicking the goal (or giving it to a teammate that does so). This is what Harry will never be above average at.

I would take average in a heart beat. We have nothing else.

 

[Seeds]

That's the thing that I think people are missing in this whole discussion.

The question shouldn't be; can he play as a forward?
It should be; can our defence cope with him as a forward?

Results suggest that so far our defence has not coped with him playing as a forward. However when he has gone back, not only has our defence performed better, but we've scored more goals!

Have a look at our ball movement, that's why we're scoring more goals.

Kolo comes back next week or the week after. That will help. Not that our tall defenders have been doing badly anyway. Henderson close to the best in the comp. our trouble in defence has has been the smalls and midfielders running forward. Having Taylor back won't help with that.

 

[Turbocat]

Lonergan

None of the 3 KPD are long term solutions in the forward position..its only trying to see out the period of time with all three in the side , and till we deem our young KPF good enough to give them a ping. We dont have a Patty McCartin who we could just say , just get under the big fellas arm and learn. ..like he had with Mooney.

 

[catempire]

I would take average in a heart beat. We have nothing else.

Harry is far from average.

 

[Turbocat]

If people think taylor is bad as a forward lonergan would be non existent. Taylor can actually mark and tackle and not give away HTB frees for a start. Unless he is playing on cloke (about the only type of opponent suitable for him now) lonergan's position is nowhere IMO.

Im not expecting much from Lonergan..perhaps if he has a shot from 25 metres out to kick the goal. Id bet he would be happier kicking for goal than Taylor. Taylor much better than Lonergan in play but put the posts up , its a person with a crook tooth waiting for the dentist.
The most important part is , Id do not want to mess up Taylor any further. Id rather have nothing from the soon to be x player Lonergan and let the backline settle.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nothing changes. Was better this week.
Keep persisting.

 

[Cronin]

Kolo comes back next week or the week after. That will help. Not that our tall defenders have been doing badly anyway. Henderson close to the best in the comp. our trouble in defence has has been the smalls and midfielders running forward. Having Taylor back won't help with that.

But it already has.

We came back against North when he went into defence.
We came back against Melbourne when he went into defence.
We kicked 13 goals to 2 today when he went back.

It's not a coincidence that when Harry Taylor has gone back we perform better so why not just start him down back where he belongs and if that means Lonergan has to make way then so be it.

With regards to the small defenders; Bews should be playing ahead of Ruggles and I think Thurlow might need some time in the twos.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We kicked 13 goals to 2 today when he went back.

Come on now, that's incidental.
The only thing stopping a similar haul while he was forward was uncharacteristic inaccuracy across the whole team.
He cannot be blamed for that.

 

[Cronin]

None of the 3 KPD are long term solutions in the forward position..its only trying to see out the period of time with all three in the side , and till we deem our young KPF good enough to give them a ping. We dont have a Patty McCartin who we could just say , just get under the big fellas arm and learn. ..like he had with Mooney.

Henderson and Taylor are our two best defenders and Lonergan would probably not work given what I saw today.

I hate bringing this up again but for me, given our list, the short term answer is Rhys Stanley.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

But it already has.

We came back against North when he went into defence.
We came back against Melbourne when he went into defence.
We kicked 13 goals to 2 today when he went back.

It's not a coincidence that when Harry Taylor has gone back we perform better so why not just start him down back where he belongs and if that means Lonergan has to make way then so be it.

With regards to the small defenders; Bews should be playing ahead of Ruggles and I think Thurlow might need some time in the twos.

Taylor had 12 possessions and 0.3 in the first half. If that was 12 possessions and 3.0 most of this discussion wouldn't exist.

I don't disagree on all of your comments about the defence but it doesn't mean taylor forward can't work or that we have a better 2nd key forward currently.

 

[Cronin]

Come on now, that's incidental.
The only thing stopping a similar haul while he was forward was uncharacteristic inaccuracy across the whole team.
He cannot be blamed for that.

Our quick ball movement was the best it's been so far this season, most of the goals missed early on were by players running into goal.

What about the North and Melbourne games?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Our quick ball movement was the best it's been so far this season, most of the goals missed early on were by players running into goal.

What about the North and Melbourne games?

He's the best option as the 2nd forward. Nothing from today changes that.
We'll persist.

 

[Cronin]

Taylor had 12 possessions and 0.3 in the first half. If that was 12 possessions and 3.0 most of this discussion wouldn't exist.

I don't disagree on all of your comments about the defence but it doesn't mean taylor forward can't work or that we have a better 2nd key forward currently.

My argument isn't that Taylor can't be a good forward, my argument is that he is STILL NEEDED IN DEFENCE.

(*sorry for all the capitals)

 

[Cronin]

He's the best option as the 2nd forward. Nothing from today changes that.
We'll persist.

Ok

 

[Turbocat]

Henderson and Taylor are our two best defenders and Lonergan would probably not work given what I saw today.

I hate bringing this up again but for me, given our list, the short term answer is Rhys Stanley.

No he is not the answer either. Stanley has shown he is not able to do it. Thats the point. We have those three in the side atm

Lonergan , is not the answer down forward without a doubt but Lonergan is basically games away from being finished. He is not really required unless we a re playing a side with a big Power forward. An I'm sure they will want him to make 200 games , due to all the karma around him... so he will be played till R12-R14 or so , after that who knows.

 

[Cronin]

No he is not the answer either. Stanley has shown he is not able to do it. Thats the point. We have those three in the side atm

Lonergan , is not the answer down forward without a doubt but Lonergan is basically games away from being finished. He is not really required unless we a re playing a side with a big Power forward. An I'm sure they will want him to make 200 games , due to all the karma around him... so he will be played till R12-R14 or so , after that who knows.

He's already reached the ultimate heights by playing in a premiership and playing extremely well in that game.

He shouldn't be played if it's not best for the team, just like anyone else.

 

[Turbocat]

He's already reached the ultimate heights by playing in a premiership and playing extremely well in that game.

He shouldn't be played if it's not best for the team, just like anyone else.

Im sure they would say its for the team and the club.

 

[Matthew Jelley]

Goals in 2017
Hawkins 16
Menzel 13
Thurlow 2
Henderson 2
Tuohy 1
Stewart 1

Taylor 0

My theory is that Taylor forward is having a dual positive effect on the teams goal scoring prowess.
Not only is harry drawing away defenders from hawk and menz and bringing the ball to ground but he is also causing his ex fellow defenders to score more goals just to rub this fact in his face.
The other point in this theory is whenever Taylor moves back the goals then dry up for the playing defenders as they can rest in the comfort Taylor has been taken away from goal scoring range. 2nd half today proves this theory

 

[Cronin]

Goals in 2017
Hawkins 16
Menzel 13
Thurlow 2
Henderson 2
Tuohy 1
Stewart 1

Taylor 0

My theory is that Taylor forward is having a dual positive effect on the teams goal scoring prowess.
Not only is harry drawing away defenders from hawk and menz and bringing the ball to ground but he is also causing his ex fellow defenders to score more goals just to rub this fact in his face.
The other point in this theory is whenever Taylor moves back the goals then dry up for the playing defenders as they can rest in the comfort Taylor has been taken away from goal scoring range. 2nd half today proves this theory

Sorry I'm a bit slow, what exactly are you saying?