Coach Teague and Shaw - Under pressure 2021?

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Lampers

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May 27, 2004
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Nicks will be given time. They were widely expected to bottom out this year and that's what happened.
They've just won 3 on the trot and derailed the finals plans of Carlton and GWS. They've given their fans hope, finished the year strong when other teams are limping to the line.
I reckon in a counter intuitive way the Crows’ last three games have created too much hope and raised expectations. Their list is poor. They have won the three games predominantly off the back of the Crouches and Laird, and Sloane, Smith and Lynch have had a good game along with Gibbs in the streak. Some cameos from the younger guys, but these three wins are coming from the past, not the future.

I think it may make it even harder to try to get value for B.Crouch and Laird as has been rumoured, because they will almost certainly regress if they do that short term. If they had gone winless nobody would’ve questioned the hard rebuild. An absolute pounding from Richmond in round 18 could be just what they need.

I don’t mind that Melbourne will probably miss finals. Making 8th and perhaps winning a final will paper over some things that need resolving.
 

Handsuper47

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Aug 5, 2012
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I don't think so, they both took over last year as caretaker coaches, then got promoted to head coach during the season - this was both their first year as senior coach. Teague got a rabble close to finals, and Shaw didn't really go anywhere but North's list is pretty rubbish so I can't blame him really. Barring a catastrophe I expect both of them to still be coaching until at least 2022.

I'll also say it's unfair to compare them to Neeld, Primus or Watters. Neeld at Melbourne, the list DID have talent but he couldn't inspire them to do anything useful and I do remember how hopeless they were playing Essendon with him as coach, probably one of the most pathetic Melbourne sides I've seen. Primus's Port Adelaide lost to BOTH expansion sides when they were just starting out, that should tell you enough. Watters, it's hard for me to say because I don't remember too much about the guy.. but I don't think he had the support of the players, enough so that they set a dwarf on fire in the off-season.. I think.
 

AndrewShawble

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Sep 10, 2019
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The North list dictates that Shaw should should be given a couple of drafts.

If Blues don’t make finals next year Teague will be close to going, list is far too talented for another one of these seasons.
 

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WalshistheGOAT

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Mar 25, 2019
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Its a hard read with Teague. Start of the year we looked to have made some massive improvements but I cant help but feel the lack of training and quick turnarounds with games has left the team taking a more conservative approach after some massive mistakes with transition football in games this year. Fallen back to their old ways of bombing down the line hoping for a miracle. Im sure teams like Geelong and the Dogs could see early on we had an offensive rebounding game which was unseen under Bolton, but that seems to have fallen away completely this late in the year.
 

Rod Stroker

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Blame the board for ignoring any potential coach who gave an unfavourable view of North's list then.
I DO blame the board for not doing proper due diligence. They rushed to appoint Shaw without really interviewing anyone else, and with no one else chasing Shaw. They got sucked in with the wins against Richmond and Collingwood and offered him the job.
Shaw did what he needed to do to get the job. Privately he probably thought your list was sh*te as well.
Disagree. I genuinely reckon he thought the list was decent, and convinced the board accordingly, but this year has shown that his assessment was horribly misplaced. What compounds the issue though, is that I'm not convinced he's a good coach. Poor skills, ineffective game plan, can't score... the list goes on.
 

Ok Boomer

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Why on earth would Teague be under pressure? You don't just jump from bottom 4 to finals in most cases. Carlton are where any rational observer would expect them to be, 9th to 13th. They will probably remain there next year as older players get phased out.
 

AndrewShawble

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Sep 10, 2019
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Why on earth would Teague be under pressure? You don't just jump from bottom 4 to finals in most cases. Carlton are where any rational observer would expect them to be, 9th to 13th. They will probably remain there next year as older players get phased out.
Have a look through their list, plenty of talent

Should be making it this year tbh, a failure in that regard
 

simmo97

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Aug 15, 2013
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I reckon in a counter intuitive way the Crows’ last three games have created too much hope and raised expectations. Their list is poor. They have won the three games predominantly off the back of the Crouches and Laird, and Sloane, Smith and Lynch have had a good game along with Gibbs in the streak. Some cameos from the younger guys, but these three wins are coming from the past, not the future.

I think it may make it even harder to try to get value for B.Crouch and Laird as has been rumoured, because they will almost certainly regress if they do that short term. If they had gone winless nobody would’ve questioned the hard rebuild. An absolute pounding from Richmond in round 18 could be just what they need.

I don’t mind that Melbourne will probably miss finals. Making 8th and perhaps winning a final will paper over some things that need resolving.
We are sitting bottom with 3 wins and a percentage of 65 i highly doubt it is raised expectations for 2021 that much.
 

PAFC_1870

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Teagues biggest problem is the way Carlton loses, or is just completely outplayed for sections of the game.

It's been happening for many many years now.

Their best had improved. Still lacking midfielders for mine though.
 

PetterdHoisted

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Apr 27, 2014
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I'd sign Teague on a long term contract.
That way even when Carlton take a backward step, which they will in an otherwise upward trend, the media will have nothing to say except 'they can't afford to sack him'

This is the ideal situation imo, back Teague and shut everyone up.

North, yeah not so sure the same approach, only because they are really coming to rock-bottom just now. Brad Scott set that titanic on-course for an iceberg and then jumped ship.

Very cunning on his part, no doubt he has a cushy AFL job now while North will suffer for years for his selfish list management.
 

La Dispute

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Teagues biggest problem is the way Carlton loses, or is just completely outplayed for sections of the game.

It's been happening for many many years now.

Their best had improved. Still lacking midfielders for mine though.
Our lack of cohesion going forward, which was a trademark of Teague’s at Adelaide, is our biggest issue at the moment.

We can win the ball around the ground and look nice transitioning out of defence on occasion but we are pretty lost when it comes to just finding easy targets around 50. I don’t think we have worked out the right mix of players and obviously Betts and McGovern are out of form.

Perhaps it’s just part and parcel of not being able to train properly, but that needs to be addressed most of all over the off-season.
 

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Belnakor

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Apr 10, 2005
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Our list is probably the worst in the comp.
Shaw was appointed because he convinced the board that the list was in good shape and that a rebuild wasn't needed (Scott said the opposite and was given the boot). The second half of last year and first 2 games this year showed the Shaw may have been right. But ultimately it was misplaced hope, and he's been proved horribly wrong losing 13 of 14 since and only beating 18th.
So he over estimated the list, and I have little confidence that he's the coach to oversee the rebuild of it, based on decisions he's made during this horror run.
wannable coaches always claim the list they are looking at could challenge.
And homer would say. It takes one person to lie and one person to believe it.

it’s the same pattern every time. The coach gets in and says “hey wait guysnow I have assessed the list closely we need to rebuild”. Thereby giving themselves another 3-4 years.
 

Anja_Nees

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Our list is probably the worst in the comp.
Shaw was appointed because he convinced the board that the list was in good shape and that a rebuild wasn't needed (Scott said the opposite and was given the boot). The second half of last year and first 2 games this year showed the Shaw may have been right. But ultimately it was misplaced hope, and he's been proved horribly wrong losing 13 of 14 since and only beating 18th.
So he over estimated the list, and I have little confidence that he's the coach to oversee the rebuild of it, based on decisions he's made during this horror run.
Have heard that too. If it’s true it reminds me of when Matthew Knights pipped Hardwick at the post for the Essendon job because he’d coached the VFL side and said they could make finals right away.

TBH it seemed pretty obvious you guys needed a rejuvenation so if he persuaded the board that you didn’t that’s going to hurt him you would think.
 

Rod Stroker

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wannable coaches always claim the list they are looking at could challenge.
And homer would say. It takes one person to lie and one person to believe it.

it’s the same pattern every time. The coach gets in and says “hey wait guysnow I have assessed the list closely we need to rebuild”. Thereby giving themselves another 3-4 years.
Not sure I agree. I don't think Longmuir would have said the Freo list could challenge any time soon (i.e this year or next). I think he, and Bell, and the board were aligned that they were still in rebuild mode, and he was hired on that understanding.
 

Roobs321

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Carlton (and Gold Coast) have had positive seasons. Agree that if North are cellar-dwelling next year then Shaw will be gone by season's end (given North's minnow circumstances), but like the Swans I like the direction of North's rebuild so I'd have faith in him yet.
 

FRUMPY

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Aug 18, 2006
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What’s the age profile of carltons list? I remember reading a long time ago that Teague favoured older players in important positions, contrary to Bolton. Not sure if that’s still the case..
Bolton gifted games to kids in order to fast track development (and it had negative effects in results and even too much burden on the kids) - teague came in and put the older players back in their spots (notably Ed Curnow and Marc Murphy back on ball) and got immediate results. But he went too far and abandoned the development of kids by either not playing them or not giving them time in the middle (Dow, Walsh, SPS, Setterfield etc)

This is where he needs to get better. Play players where they should be played. Lets see if they are good enough. Needs to start to phase out Murphy, Curnow, Simpson etc.
 

no. 4

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If we looked through everyone's ladder predictions before the start of the season, almost all non-Carlton supporters would have had Carlton in the bottom 4 so the team has definitely exceeded the expections of most footy followers out there despite the Adelaide loss and poor individual quarters. I would have thought Teague would only be under pressure next year if we started going south again on the ladder.
 

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