Coach Teague and Shaw - Under pressure 2021?

[Joao]

I don’t agree that playing young players on the flanks is is stuffing their development.

Petracca spent his first 4 playing years up forward but broke out age 24, Gary Ablett jnr spent his first 5 years in the forward line before breaking out at 24. Carlton has a lot of talent at 22 and under, Teague has few years of developing these guys at the right pace before you can write these guys off. I don’t think sacrificing their development.

I never said it is stuffing the development, I am saying it stalls it.

I also never wrote anyone off but there is no way Teague gets "a few years" to develop them. They've been rebuilding since 2015. They need to compete seriously for finals in 2021 or he'll be under pressure. There is no way he got the job with the freedom to bounce around in the bottom half for 2-3 years.

 

[queensberryrules]

Supposedly tough wise grizzled ex-players and hardened buz folk shitting pants, folding, and doing what the loud fools demand with no evidence to support the decision.

Seems to be a lot of this around these days in all facets of life.

 

[Blackas87]

I never said it is stuffing the development, I am saying it stalls it.

I also never wrote anyone off but there is no way Teague gets "a few years" to develop them. They've been rebuilding since 2015. They need to compete seriously for finals in 2021 or he'll be under pressure. There is no way he got the job with the freedom to bounce around in the bottom half for 2-3 years.

Doesn’t matter when Carlton started rebuilding, this is his first year as senior coach. They finished 16th last year and 18th the year before. He didn’t take over an established list, he’s got a few years to develop the team and build to a finals team just like Longmuir. They have improved immensely since Teague took over

 

[Joao]

Doesn’t matter when Carlton started rebuilding, this is his first year as senior coach. They finished 16th last year and 18th the year before. He didn’t take over an established list, he’s got a few years to develop the team and build to a finals team just like Longmuir. They have improved immensely since Teague took over

The length of the rebuild absolutely matters. Longmuir doesn't get 4 years to play finals because he only took over this year. He will have pitched where he thinks the list is at and the club would have had an opinion too. Suspect they are on the same page as Teague and Carlton are and there is no way that Carlton is happy for Teague to feel his way out for 2-3 years.

Just because a new coach gets appointed doesn't mean everything resets to zero. The state of the list absolutely matters and contributes to expectations.

Of course they improved. He took Dow et al out of the middle and stuffed Curnow and Murphy back in there. Bolton could have done that too but he had the integrity to stick with the plan and it got him sacked.

 

[PrinceCharles]

I think neither of them should be senior coaches to begin with. Both clubs needed to look further than under their noses before choosing both appointments.

Hard to compare the two when North's problems are more than just their Senior Coach. Unlike Teague, who has been coaching for over a decade and has been within four different AFL systems - Shaw is completely out of his depth and inexperienced for the position.

So, what's Teague's excuse for someone who has a strong list that's straight up just underperforming? What's the reason for only being able to extract two quarters out of his side every week on average - especially in a season which's circumstances should favour them. What about some of the selections they've done this season, including the one that cost them a potential finals spot today? How about constantly choosing to play people out of position regularly?

lol what the hell are you talking about?

 

[TP86]

Any comparison with Neeld is unfair. Worst coach of the AFL era. Should’ve been sacked after 8 games. It’s an absurdity that he made it to 33.

The weird thing with Shaw is all media talk about the decision to go with him like it was black and white, rebuild or reload. They don’t look at option C, which was, proceed WITHOUT BRAD SCOTT regardless of if it’s a rebuild or a reload! The Kangaroos may not have made a great decision, but they made the right decision.

 

[Blackas87]

The length of the rebuild absolutely matters. Longmuir doesn't get 4 years to play finals because he only took over this year. He will have pitched where he thinks the list is at and the club would have had an opinion too. Suspect they are on the same page as Teague and Carlton are and there is no way that Carlton is happy for Teague to feel his way out for 2-3 years.

Just because a new coach gets appointed doesn't mean everything resets to zero. The state of the list absolutely matters and contributes to expectations.

Of course they improved. He took Dow et al out of the middle and stuffed Curnow and Murphy back in there. Bolton could have done that too but he had the integrity to stick with the plan and it got him sacked.

Not sure where you got 4 years from? This is what I originally said which you quoted me.

Carlton’s best looks pretty decent under Teague. Still a young side, they need to build consistency under him the next 2 years and show improvement. Could make finals 2021 but 2022 should be the goal. If they haven’t made it by then it’ll be time to move him

2022 should be Carlton’s goal which is Teague 3rd year, I’d say the same as Freo as well.

 

[FairKouta]

The length of the rebuild absolutely matters. Longmuir doesn't get 4 years to play finals because he only took over this year. He will have pitched where he thinks the list is at and the club would have had an opinion too. Suspect they are on the same page as Teague and Carlton are and there is no way that Carlton is happy for Teague to feel his way out for 2-3 years.

Just because a new coach gets appointed doesn't mean everything resets to zero. The state of the list absolutely matters and contributes to expectations.

Of course they improved. He took Dow et al out of the middle and stuffed Curnow and Murphy back in there. Bolton could have done that too but he had the integrity to stick with the plan and it got him sacked.

Lels what you’re potting teague for putting his best available players in their positions so we can win. I don’t give a toot if it stalls development we do not need another hopeless season with a losing mentality.
You can’t be expected to be gifted games like we did under bolton. Again teague wasn’t expected to get to finals this year.

Anyway Murphy hardly played midfield it was cripps setters curnow for the majority pinch hitters martin murphy walsh and cunningham.

 

[Wonderdog]

I think neither of them should be senior coaches to begin with. Both clubs needed to look further than under their noses before choosing both appointments.

Hard to compare the two when North's problems are more than just their Senior Coach. Unlike Teague, who has been coaching for over a decade and has been within four different AFL systems - Shaw is completely out of his depth and inexperienced for the position.

So, what's Teague's excuse for someone who has a strong list that's straight up just underperforming? What's the reason for only being able to extract two quarters out of his side every week on average - especially in a season which's circumstances should favour them. What about some of the selections they've done this season, including the one that cost them a potential finals spot today? How about constantly choosing to play people out of position regularly?

But Shaw was voted the asst coach of the year for consecutive years before coming to North. What more could he have done?

 

[Joao]

Not sure where you got 4 years from? This is what I originally said which you quoted me.

2022 should be Carlton’s goal which is Teague 3rd year, I’d say the same as Freo as well.

It's arbitrary, like your "few years".

Lets leave it here, fundamental difference of opinion.

Lels what you’re potting teague for putting his best available players in their positions so we can win. I don’t give a toot if it stalls development we do not need another hopeless season with a losing mentality.
You can’t be expected to be gifted games like we did under bolton. Again teague wasn’t expected to get to finals this year.

Anyway Murphy hardly played midfield it was cripps setters curnow for the majority pinch hitters martin murphy walsh and cunningham.

I don't have a problem with Teague trying to win, my whole argument is you don't get the "young team" excuse for 2-3 years if you are going to play those guys in midfield.

As I said earlier re: Murphy - he is your equal 4th highest clearance winner and 75th in the league. He is clearly attending stoppages at some point this year and quite a few of them.

 

[FairKouta]

It's arbitrary, like your "few years".

Lets leave it here, fundamental difference of opinion.

I don't have a problem with Teague trying to win, my whole argument is you don't get the "young team" excuse for 2-3 years if you are going to play those guys in midfield.

As I said earlier re: Murphy - he is your equal 4th highest clearance winner and 75th in the league. He is clearly attending stoppages at some point this year and quite a few of them.

So you are saying we should be playing finals this year because we played a banged up murphy and edcurnow with cripps instead of the young draftees ?

 

[Joao]

So you are saying we should be playing finals this year because we played a banged up murphy and edcurnow with cripps instead of the young draftees ?

No this year is a bit optimistic. Next year I think is realistic.

 

[Blackas87]

It's arbitrary, like your "few years".

Lets leave it here, fundamental difference of opinion.

I don't have a problem with Teague trying to win, my whole argument is you don't get the "young team" excuse for 2-3 years if you are going to play those guys in midfield.

As I said earlier re: Murphy - he is your equal 4th highest clearance winner and 75th in the league. He is clearly attending stoppages at some point this year and quite a few of them.

First of all I’m not a Carlton supporter. Can’t stand them.

From an outside perspective though I can see they are building around the guys 22 and under.

it’s like Richmond building around Cotchin, Riewoldt, Dusty, Rance and Grimes ect.. They didn’t win a final until they were 26-28 years old.

Carlton’s list has time on its side. They are 5 years from being a contender imo, 2 years from now to start playing finals like Richmond started in 2013. Freo in the same boat.

who cares if Murphy is in the middle today, 3 years ago Nathan Jones was in the middle at Melbourne, now it’s Petracca. The young guys don’t have to be in the middle just yet.

Teague’s first year is Carlton’s best since 2013

 

[showemhowtorock]

First of all I’m not a Carlton supporter. Can’t stand them.

From an outside perspective though I can see they are building around the guys 22 and under.

it’s like Richmond building around Cotchin, Riewoldt, Dusty, Rance and Grimes ect.. They didn’t win a final until they were 26-28 years old.

Carlton’s list has time on its side. They are 5 years from being a contender imo, 2 years from now to start playing finals like Richmond started in 2013. Freo in the same boat.

who cares if Murphy is in the middle today, 3 years ago Nathan Jones was in the middle at Melbourne, now it’s Petracca. The young guys don’t have to be in the middle just yet.

Teague’s first year is Carlton’s best since 2013

they're not gonna shag you mate

 

[FairKouta]

No this year is a bit optimistic. Next year I think is realistic.

Agreed

 

[Mudman85]

Won’t be long before Matthew Nicks will be feeling the heat at Adelaide with the appointment of Scott Burns as an assistant. Crows have been trying to land Burns as senior coach for years. Goodwin and Cameron most under pressure for mine.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

It's easy to say it's too early to sack them so soon, but that excuse wasn't given to Neeld, Watters and Primus.

Primus is the particularly applicable example here; he got hired on the back of some good form as the caretaker coach. This was followed by two poor years before he got sacked.

How many credits do Teague and Shaw have in the bank?

You would have to add rutten to that list as well if Essendon are poor again surely heads have to roll they refuse to do anything about dodoro so rutten is next in line!

 

[Robertio]

You would have to add rutten to that list as well if Essendon are poor again surely heads have to roll they refuse to do anything about dodoro so rutten is next in line!

Why would you have Teague on that list? Carlton dead last when he took over and now sit 11th.

 

[lumpinee]

What a bizarre thread.

Shaw would definitely be under a bit of pressure after a poor year.

Teague - has Carlton arguably exactly where most HOPED they would be. As awful as today's game was, the team started the day a chance to play finals, and this match was at the end of both a tough season, and a tough sequence of games. Ultimately the team has a bunch of flaws that are getting more exposed as the year goes on. That's what a middle of the road team looks like, though - and Teague took over a bunch of cellar dwellars.

You would HOPE now that Carlton can go away and work on the flaws in the off-season - through recruitment, more time on the game plan and ball movement, and skills coaching. IF we go backwards and slide into the bottom 2 again next year, then sure, Teague will be in trouble. But I reckon you could say the same about 12 other coaches, and Teague might have MORE chance of surviving a bottom 2 finish than some of the others?

Teague will not even survive a bottom 4 finish if that be the case next year,Carlton powerbrokers will not tolerate it,anyway FWIW Carlton should be around the 8-11th mark next year imo so i can see him still coaching into 2022,halfway into 2022 i wait to see where Teagues at with Carlton.
I think u give him another 35-40 games at least

 

[schmuttt]

Coaches under the most pressure are Goodwin and Cameron in 2021. Teague should come in for some criticism if Carlton miss finals again but I’d imagine he will get 2022 unless they finish bottom 4, Shaw will be fine as you can’t expect more than 3-4 wins when you completely rebuild like this.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Surely Simon Goodwin is under the most pressure?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Why would you have Teague on that list? Carlton dead last when he took over and now sit 11th.

I didn’t make the list just replying to the tread and no I wouldn’t have Teague on the list he deserves a couple more years before his under pressure

 

[Sttew]

North is into a rebuild. You'd have to think the Board discussed this with Shaw and has given him the OK to embark on a rebuild? As such he'd have to be very safe. Expectations will be low in 2021.

 

[Duskfire]

Shaw inherited a s**t list, not his fault. I think maybe he overestimated how good the club was based on how well they finished last season, but still. They definitely thought they would be better than they were, but reality checks are good at times. He is fine. Teague as well I imagine is good for another season.

Cameron and Goodwin are under the most pressure. If Melb misses finals again the knives will be out.

 

[the big lebowski]

As a north supporter I’m not using wins to assess if shaw gets an extension after next year. Infact, we are positioning ourselves for a bottom 4 finish next year.

I’ll judge him on how he develops a game plan and how he develops the kids. He’s had some wins in the development of kids but there is plenty to go. If they don’t progress it’s a tough sell for an extension.