Coach Teague in or out?

[SkyhorseTamer]

SkyhorseTamer mentioned that Teague seems to have doubled down in a number of areas, which is absolutely spot on.

Stated my concerns at the end of 2019, as to the lack of defensive structures, despite the initial turnaround.

What people have actually missed in all this, is the gameplan was actually changed, here's how.

Teague initially put senior players back in pivotal roles and released the shackles.

First preseason, first double down. To combat the run ons and or poor defensive structures, Teague changed the gameplan, increasing the speed, length and with.

Second preseason, 2nd double down, increase the same areas again.

An example of fix strategies, rather than prevent.

Needs to get back to that 2019 strategy, slow it down a touch and put defensive strategies in place that will withstand all the different attacking styles in the competition

The best system I've seen this club play with since 2011 has been Boltons with less emphasis on defence and better selection. Teagues honey moon caretaker period was Boltons system with less focus on a flooding defence.

Teague just threw it out after 2019 and we're seeing the results

 

[jj1978]

One quick fix.. that corralling bs has to stop! Hated it when it started during the Pagan era, despise it even more now.

 

[AcesnEights]

IMO at the moment he's out. Only chance is that he gets this team defending appropriately.

I think his out irrelevant if players defend him. If you had to vote on next coach for 2022 who would it be?

On MAR-LX2 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[outabounds]

I was honestly expecting some thing to happen today after the abysmal performance on Saturday night. He really looked like he had no answers. At least Buckley fronted the press for Collingwood and gave some sort of air of confidence and authority when things went south.

 

[jj1978]

I was honestly expecting some thing to happen today after the abysmal performance on Saturday night. He really looked like he had no answers. At least Buckley fronted the press for Collingwood and gave some sort of air of confidence and authority when things went south.

He believes the onus is on the players, hence Cripps and Weitering fronting up to take some heat. This tactic I agree in, for Cripps to say we gave effort and being asked look at the tackling or lack of will to do so via reporters may start to hit home hopefully to the collective. If this weekends KPI does not include each player must have at least been involved with 2 tackles by halftime, and none of this Daniel-Sun crane technique corralling then I don't know if the group psyche can be rectified.

 

[Arr0w]

What are your thoughts about the defensive running in the midfield?
Is it the game plan - Teague telling our players to keep the zone, corral, don't attack the main directly, don't keep tight defensive on the wing/midfield, let them have their short kicks and marks.
Is it fitness - our players are too tired to physically keep up with their opponents
Is it mindset?

Just on eyeball value, our players were under a heap of pressure every time we tried to link up. We'd handball it, and the receiver already had an opposition player hot on their tail, if not already being half way to wrapped up in a tackle already.

This isn't just the GWS game, but as many others have said before the same thing week in, week out.

Our setups are too taxing, especially with Teague wanting extra numbers ahead of the ball.

Then, rather than being in a position to tackle, he wants to eliminate the opposition extra numbers on the counter, by corralling or running back to plug longer options

Leads to sides picking us apart with handballs and short/er kicks

 

[Stamos]

Our setups are too taxing, especially with Teague wanting extra numbers ahead of the ball.

Then, rather than being in a position to tackle, he wants to eliminate the opposition extra numbers on the counter, by corralling or running back to plug longer options

Leads to sides picking us apart with handballs and short/er kicks

It's crazy

 

[El Topo]

He believes the onus is on the players, hence Cripps and Weitering fronting up to take some heat. This tactic I agree in, for Cripps to say we gave effort and being asked look at the tackling or lack of will to do so via reporters may start to hit home hopefully to the collective. If this weekends KPI does not include each player must have at least been involved with 2 tackles by halftime, and none of this Daniel-Sun crane technique corralling then I don't know if the group psyche can be rectified.

Even if it's delusional, I'm glad the players are thinking this way. Things will only get worse if the players are given an 'out' for recent performance.

 

[Dramoth]

Our setups are too taxing, especially with Teague wanting extra numbers ahead of the ball.

Then, rather than being in a position to tackle, he wants to eliminate the opposition extra numbers on the counter, by corralling or running back to plug longer options

Leads to sides picking us apart with handballs and short/er kicks

This is something that puzzles me. A lot of teams drop one behind the ball and then press up and corral the opposition properly by pushing them wide to the boundary. They have one line of players pressing the transition wider to the boundary and then have a second line cutting off the short kick over to the top into the corridor. This results in either a quick kick long into a packed forward line, resulting in a turn over and then quick transition through the corridor into their forward line. Or it results in a slow kick back for an attempt at a transition across the ground where the opposition might stuff up and turn it over, once again resulting in a quick kick into the corridor for a quick transition into their forward line.

 

[Arr0w]

This is something that puzzles me. A lot of teams drop one behind the ball and then press up and corral the opposition properly by pushing them wide to the boundary. They have one line of players pressing the transition wider to the boundary and then have a second line cutting off the short kick over to the top into the corridor. This results in either a quick kick long into a packed forward line, resulting in a turn over and then quick transition through the corridor into their forward line. Or it results in a slow kick back for an attempt at a transition across the ground where the opposition might stuff up and turn it over, once again resulting in a quick kick into the corridor for a quick transition into their forward line.

The thing that confuses many, we actually played a decent brand early against the Dogs, forcing them to to kick from stoppages rather than multiple handballs.

Then we went back to "playing our way" and opened up those same areas of concern

 

[Dramoth]

The thing that confuses many, we actually played a decent brand early against the Dogs, forcing them to to kick from stoppages rather than multiple handballs.

Then we went back to "playing our way" and opened up those same areas of concern

At times during the VFL game on the weekend, I could see us trying to use the tactic I described of forcing the opposition to the boundary while having players closing down the switch to the corridor. If we can get that working properly, with pace we can generate through the middle, we could use it to great effect. Especially when Charlie is back and we have two good marking targets in the forward line. Could you imagine Charlie leading up from the CHF line, wheeling and kicking to Harry on the break inside the 50.

 

[Beast__Mode]

If the only reason you can give for keeping him is because you don’t want another coach sacked… then you probably know the answer.

I’ve seen nothing on field to suggest this group is progressing on anything other than individual talent.

I’ve seen a team lost, outplayed, outworked.

I’ve seen a coach falling victim to being fixated on his ‘system’ without seemingly doing anything to give the team a better chance to win with the players available for selection.

I use quotes for system because I’ve seen nothing to suggest this team is being prepared and positioned to succeed in the modern game.

if anyone can point to one aspect of our game style, planning, preparation or team based execution that has improved since Rd1 2020 I’m all ears.

he simply has to go. He’s not at the required standard to succeed in the AFL as a head coach.

The new coach needs to be outside the club and the players need to be completely outside of the consultation process. Only those inside the club will know if there’s benefit moving him on now -I’m personally against the circus of a caretaker and having a repeat of players commenting on how much they love him every week, but if Teague’s lost the group maybe they need to move him for player retention.

 

[gbatman]

I think his out irrelevant if players defend him. If you had to vote on next coach for 2022 who would it be?

On MAR-LX2 using BigFooty.com mobile app

If he can get the team defending the entire field and playing well then he deserves his role but he hasn't yet. IMO a competent midfield coach is badly lacking. That would save him but he needs to earn it

 

[Beast__Mode]

The best system I've seen this club play with since 2011 has been Boltons with less emphasis on defence and better selection. Teagues honey moon caretaker period was Boltons system with less focus on a flooding defence.

Teague just threw it out after 2019 and we're seeing the results

We were a bastard of a team to play against for large stretches of Bolton’s tenure until the end where the confidence of the group was completely shot. We had games in 2016/17 where it was genuinely enjoyable to watch the effort as a team.

 

[Arr0w]

If he can get the team defending the entire field and playing well then he deserves his role but he hasn't yet. IMO a competent midfield coach is badly lacking. That would save him but he needs to earn it

GMan a couple of scenarios. What would you do and what would the timing be if:

1) The results remain status quo, we win ugly against sides at the bottom/around us, remain somewhat competitive against the top sides ( Cats and Port remaining)

2) Things deteriorate more and or bigger losses like GWS or worse

 

[RedFury]

One quick fix.. that corralling bs has to stop! Hated it when it started during the Pagan era, despise it even more now.

Or at least do it a bit closer to actually create some perceived pressure. Right now you can see the opposition player realising they have some time and space to make and execute the right decision.

 

[gbatman]

GMan a couple of scenarios. What would you do and what would the timing be if:

1) The results remain status quo, we win ugly against sides at the bottom/around us, remain somewhat competitive against the top sides ( Cats and Port remaining)

2) Things deteriorate more and or bigger losses like GWS or worse

I want to see us play a good brand that asks the question of our opponents and our skills.

Win ugly is 100% fine. If we can defend really well we'll beat some of the finalists and teams around us.

Things deteriorate then a new coach is on the cards.

 

[RedFury]

The best system I've seen this club play with since 2011 has been Boltons with less emphasis on defence and better selection. Teagues honey moon caretaker period was Boltons system with less focus on a flooding defence.

Teague just threw it out after 2019 and we're seeing the results

It's a really good point - we looked better under Teague in 2019 not just because of the honeymoon period but because there were defensive aspects of Bolton's coaching and game plan that hadn't been unlearned yet.

I thought there were times under Bolton's tenure when our defense looked pretty bloody solid, the issue was that we just couldn't score.

It feels like the pendulum has simply swung too far - from all-out-defense to all-out-attack. Gain some middle ground and we'll be decent.

 

[Arr0w]

I want to see us play a good brand that asks the question of our opponents and our skills.

Win ugly is 100% fine. If we can defend really well we'll beat some of the finalists and teams around us.

Things deteriorate then a new coach is on the cards.

Similar

1 Could retain his position if we still see some incremental improvements in ugly wins and competative losses against the top 4 sides, but still in the balance

2 If it deteriorates, even against the Crows, it could force a change immediately

Couple of things I find interesting. Teague has always had Worsfold as a mentor, I don't understand it being formalized even though it continues to be a long distance arrangement. Is this the club/Sayers wanting insurance so Worsfold could step in a purely an interim coach rather than handing over to a current assistant, if Teague departs?

 

[AcesnEights]

If he can get the team defending the entire field and playing well then he deserves his role but he hasn't yet. IMO a competent midfield coach is badly lacking. That would save him but he needs to earn it

Right now seems 2 coaching positions vacant for 2022.
1. C'wood
2. Blues. Teague won't survive from what I am seeing every week. Who knows end of year maybe another 1/2 senior coaching jobs will be available.If it comes to Teague not being at Blues will be good if we do jump on best available coach. Sure few preferences we might have in mind.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Right now seems 2 coaching positions vacant for 2022.
1. C'wood
2. Blues. Teague won't survive from what I am seeing every week. Who knows end of year maybe another 1/2 senior coaching jobs will be available.If it comes to Teague not being at Blues will be good if we do jump on best available coach. Sure few preferences we might have in mind.

If they are available, they aren't the best.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I spoke to a friend of mine who deals with S&C at another big club. I specifically asked him about Stringer, and how he is able to run out a whole game despite being clearly overweight and CLEARLY an explosive athlete. He just reckons the gameplan allows him to do so, and that Carlton's gameplan really doesn't allow for anyone outside our fittest few players (he named Walsh and Curnow) to run the game out.

He thinks Russell has done a great job, and has heard good things about Charlie's fitness and conditioning level, he also noted how well Docherty, Newman and Kemp have been moving coming off of knee reconstructions under his guidance. He puts 100% of the blame on Teague's unsustainable game style.

 

[Burgers45]

Chris Judd has been vindicated. The club hierarchy should have listened to him when he said quote, "they didn't want a coach on training wheels”' unquote. The decision to appoint Teague was based on the approval of the senior players, which was a bad decision. In hindsight, there should have been a proper selection process set up with a coach panel to select a suitable coach with the best qualifications.
IMO, if Teague's game plan continues to fail he should be replaced at seasons end.

 

[AcesnEights]

If they are available, they aren't the best.

Most promising then from a pool that is putting their hand up form multiple open senior coaching jobs

 

[Gointocarlton]

Chris Judd has been vindicated. The club hierarchy should have listened to him when he said quote, "they didn't want a coach on training wheels”' unquote. The decision to appoint Teague was based on the approval of the senior players, which was a bad decision. In hindsight, there should have been a proper selection process set up with a coach panel to select a suitable coach with the best qualifications.
IMO, if Teague's game plan continues to fail he should be replaced at seasons end.

Why do you reckon Judd is leaving?