Coach Teague in or out?

[Stamos]

He has beaten as coach several of those coaches you have mentioned before (IE Longmire, Beveridge, C.Scott , Fagan etc), so I think you might be barking up the wrong bush with that argument ...

Not this year

 

[thylacine60]

For me the critical question of whether to keep Teague or not is can he tactically outcoach the likes of Beveridge, Longmire, Hinkley, Hardwick, C Scott, Simpson, Fagan or Goodwin? I'll add Pyke, Buckley, Clarkson, Lyon, Choco and B Scott into the mix.
Beyond the talent and commitment of players, coaching tactics and game day manoeuvres are what gets you over the line.
I've yet to see it from Teague and he doesn't give me the impression that it's going to happen any time soon.

love your work bruce, but isn't this suggesting you haven't seen the future?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

He has beaten as coach several of those coaches you have mentioned before (IE Longmire, Beveridge, C.Scott , Fagan etc), so I think you might be barking up the wrong bush with that argument ...

Beating teams and outcoaching your opponent are different issues.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

love your work bruce, but isn't this suggesting you haven't seen the future?

Has anyone?

 

[thylacine60]

I've seen the future. If only you people knew............

 

[thylacine60]

It's not too good at all for *, we get caught up in a tender bidding scandal with several trophy cabinet suppliers and collingwood & richmond merge to create the punt-hoddle afterthoughts...........

 

[jj1978]

If he is retained, they better ensure that one of the assistants is not on training wheels come round 6-7, 2022 if we're languishing on 1 win.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

It's not too good at all for *, we get caught up in a tender bidding scandal with several trophy cabinet suppliers and collingwood & richmond merge to create the punt-hoddle afterthoughts...........

Any Thylacine cubs roaming the Dandenong Ranges?

 

[Iamcarlton]

Thought I laid out the reasons why not to, in the post you replied to (Covid effected, club not putting support around him)

Hardwick took more than 2.5 years to improve as well.

But I think you and I fundamentally differ on what effects the coach can have, Carlton’s issues are bigger than Teague & Carlton’s failures in 2021 are bigger than Teague.

if getting a premiership coach from elsewhere solved those issues, Mick Malthouse would still be coaching Carlton and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Surely you can see changing the coach doesn’t guarantee success - Pagan to Rattan, Rattan to Malthouse, Malthouse to Bolton, Bolton to Teague.

Only 1 of them arguably resulted in improvement and it was Pagan to Rattan. Teague too early to judge, the rest? The club was in a worst position each time the latest one left.

So you say it’s wasting a year, I say it’s giving a chance for someone to face a review and rectify the issue.

What makes you think despite all that history, Clarkson means a premiership in 2022?

Malthouse may as well have been a rookie coach with us as his professionalism was laid bare with his constant media tantrums from his second season with us .
He simply wasn't invested in the club so imo his pedigree as a premiership coach was irrelevant to the situation at the time .
Teague simply makes too many mistakes the biggest continuing with both Casboult and Murphy as long as he has .
Whilst I'm not sold on whether he should be replaced as it is a very big decision and as you've said there has been improvement .
But I have no confidence whatsoever that he has the ability to take us where we want to go .

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Funny thing last night I’d thought I’d have a crack at the ladder predictor with a fair approach with selecting each winner over the last three rounds...

Somehow i ended up with two teams in 7th & 8th spots making the final eight on less than 11 wins...

With GWS winning last round
7th Gws 42pts 10.5 wins
8th *** 40pts 10 wins
12th Blues

With CARL winning last round
7th *** 40pts %?
8th Rich 40pts %?
9th Carl 40pts %?
10th Fre 40pts %?
11th Gws 38pts

Crazy stuff we are still even remotely the tiniest of chances, win 2 and all the right results fall our way, not that we really deserve it but you’d take it if it somehow comes...

 

[CarltonBlooz]

If he is retained, they better ensure that one of the assistants is not on training wheels come round 6-7, 2022 if we're languishing on 1 win.

Agreed, the dollarydoos about the situation are interesting though, the soft cap is $6.132 million at current time due to COVID, it will likely increase later in year but no club knows whether that'll be few hundred k or like some are arguing for 1 mill+.

If get rid of Teague that is 250k-350k depending on how much he would be on, only 6 month payout required.

Leaves the rest to fill in at least a few holes at end of season.

" The list ranges from coaches, to medical costs, to strength and conditioning, to recruiting, to the boot-studder and property steward, to finance personnel involved in contract negotiations to funding the VFL team, to the footballs that are kicked at training."

For anyone that didn't know what the soft cap fully encompassed (I didn't).

 

[Garters]

But we didn’t beat North, they smashed us. We’ve been getting smashed by teams we should beat all year, but Teague has been banging his head against the wall by backing older players, and unfit players, and players out of position, who aren’t getting the job done, and failing.

Instead he could have brought in younger players with potential to be better, to provide spark, like Sydney got, and *, and North, and like we got from LOB and Honey last night, and we would be better placed.

Further to this when we have been forced to bring in kids owing to injury we have looked a different side.

 

[GeoCoulthard]

Those wishing to get rid of Teague are barking up the wrong tree.

Almost all of us are not club insiders and wouldn't know any of the players or coaches and how they interact with one another. We also don't get to see how Teague is coaching to any real degree. All we can go on is the game results which are not neccesarily a good indication of anything to do with a coaches skills. We don't even know if it is Teague who has not been playing the youngsters like Honey as he is not the person picking the team - he would undoubtedly have some input but he is only one vote on the selection committee and it depends on how much he gets listened to.

I've been frustrated beyond believe with the way we have played this year but I am very wary of getting rid of a coach who has only had a little over 2 years in the job and has had to learn on the job as a senior coach. I would expect every coach is on a big learning curve at the start of their career. Even so, he has a 21 - 26 win/loss record to date which is not all that shabby given he took over a side that was near the bottom of the ladder.

It looks to me that the players have not switched off (though with this side it seems to be a game by game proposition) so it is not like we have players who cannot work with the coach.

I think any coach should expect to get at least 4 years in the role before he is terminated unless there is something seriously wrong and something has to be done sooner. I don't see any signs that suggest Teague shouldn't be given longer to get things right. There have been many successful coaches that didn't set the world on fire in their early days - look at Richmond, Geelong and Hawthorn for examples of this. Hardwick, Thomson and Clarkson certainly had their detractors early and unless their clubs had shown some mettle would have been out of a job before they had achieved success.

It is so easy to get rid of a coach when things are not going well. Even though Clarkson is considered a great coach, Hawthorn are not going well this year and are second bottom and the result is that he has been moved on.

We need to stick tight and get behind the coach not take pot-shots at him all the time.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Malthouse may as well have been a rookie coach with us as his professionalism was laid bare with his constant media tantrums from his second season with us .
He simply wasn't invested in the club so imo his pedigree as a premiership coach was irrelevant to the situation at the time .
Teague simply makes too many mistakes the biggest continuing with both Casboult and Murphy as long as he has .
Whilst I'm not sold on whether he should be replaced as it is a very big decision and as you've said there has been improvement .
But I have no confidence whatsoever that he has the ability to take us where we want to go .

Those coaches videos on Mondays were quite the sight to behold.

 

[Magruder]

Enough with the Hardwick, Thompson, Clarkson comparisons.

They are nothing more than fatuous indulgences.

For every Hardwick or Thompson there are plenty of coaches backed in who have failed to improve.

Teague falls firmly in the latter category in my opinion.

 

[thylacine60]

Any Thylacine cubs roaming the Dandenong Ranges?

crowded enough up there............

 

[thylacine60]

Enough with the Hardwick, Thompson, Clarkson comparisons.

They are nothing more than fatuous indulgences.

For every Hardwick or Thompson there are plenty of coaches backed in who have failed to improve.

Teague falls firmly in the latter category in my opinion.

that's a really shallow effort compared to your usual contributions - how long does he get? 2 and a half, the end? seriously? you can't sense something going on?

 

[jpfalvo]

For me the critical question of whether to keep Teague or not is can he tactically outcoach the likes of Beveridge, Longmire, Hinkley, Hardwick, C Scott, Simpson, Fagan or Goodwin? I'll add Pyke, Buckley, Clarkson, Lyon, Choco and B Scott into the mix.
Beyond the talent and commitment of players, coaching tactics and game day manoeuvres are what gets you over the line.
I've yet to see it from Teague and he doesn't give me the impression that it's going to happen any time soon.

Lose to Norf, respond to beat a jerkyll and hide Stk. Gee there are some short memories.

If the assessment of Teague is off 1 game, you are dreaming... his deficiencies have been there for 2.5yrs.

Goal run ons have been a feature since his 1st game as caretaker...

He is and should be under heavy scrutiny. I'm with you The Flying Doormat i don't see it.

I see winning, when we do, on talent. Not on system. I still maintain our worse loss for the year was r2 v Pies, as that said it all.

If the review is fair dinkum, late season wins wont save him...

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[thylacine60]

Lose to Norf, respond to beat a jerkyll and hide Stk. Gee there are some short memories.

If the assessment of Teague is off 1 game, you are dreaming... his deficiencies have been there for 2.5yrs.

Goal run ons have been a feature since his 1st game as caretaker...

He is and should be under heavy scrutiny. I'm with you The Flying Doormat i don't see it.

I see winning, when we do, on talent. Not on system. I still maintain our worse loss for the year was r2 v Pies, as that said it all.

If the review is fair dinkum, late season wins wont save him...

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

decoded = I know what is going to happen next year.................

 

[Judd1400]

For me it is the 22 selected the last 2 years.
So many players gifted games because the are experienced. Most of our so called experienced players have been on their last legs.
Waste of 2 years in hindsight.
Would rather have played the younger guys and went into next year 15-30 games under their belt.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[KingCharles]

Those wishing to get rid of Teague are barking up the wrong tree.

Almost all of us are not club insiders and wouldn't know any of the players or coaches and how they interact with one another. We also don't get to see how Teague is coaching to any real degree. All we can go on is the game results which are not neccesarily a good indication of anything to do with a coaches skills. We don't even know if it is Teague who has not been playing the youngsters like Honey as he is not the person picking the team - he would undoubtedly have some input but he is only one vote on the selection committee and it depends on how much he gets listened to.

I've been frustrated beyond believe with the way we have played this year but I am very wary of getting rid of a coach who has only had a little over 2 years in the job and has had to learn on the job as a senior coach. I would expect every coach is on a big learning curve at the start of their career. Even so, he has a 21 - 26 win/loss record to date which is not all that shabby given he took over a side that was near the bottom of the ladder.

It looks to me that the players have not switched off (though with this side it seems to be a game by game proposition) so it is not like we have players who cannot work with the coach.

I think any coach should expect to get at least 4 years in the role before he is terminated unless there is something seriously wrong and something has to be done sooner. I don't see any signs that suggest Teague shouldn't be given longer to get things right. There have been many successful coaches that didn't set the world on fire in their early days - look at Richmond, Geelong and Hawthorn for examples of this. Hardwick, Thomson and Clarkson certainly had their detractors early and unless their clubs had shown some mettle would have been out of a job before they had achieved success.

It is so easy to get rid of a coach when things are not going well. Even though Clarkson is considered a great coach, Hawthorn are not going well this year and are second bottom and the result is that he has been moved on.

We need to stick tight and get behind the coach not take pot-shots at him all the time.

Teague will not be our coach next year

 

[Blue and Blue]

In my opinion Teague will not be our coach next year

EFA

 

[thylacine60]

Those wishing to get rid of Teague are barking up the wrong tree.

Almost all of us are not club insiders and wouldn't know any of the players or coaches and how they interact with one another. We also don't get to see how Teague is coaching to any real degree. All we can go on is the game results which are not neccesarily a good indication of anything to do with a coaches skills. We don't even know if it is Teague who has not been playing the youngsters like Honey as he is not the person picking the team - he would undoubtedly have some input but he is only one vote on the selection committee and it depends on how much he gets listened to.

I've been frustrated beyond believe with the way we have played this year but I am very wary of getting rid of a coach who has only had a little over 2 years in the job and has had to learn on the job as a senior coach. I would expect every coach is on a big learning curve at the start of their career. Even so, he has a 21 - 26 win/loss record to date which is not all that shabby given he took over a side that was near the bottom of the ladder.

It looks to me that the players have not switched off (though with this side it seems to be a game by game proposition) so it is not like we have players who cannot work with the coach.

I think any coach should expect to get at least 4 years in the role before he is terminated unless there is something seriously wrong and something has to be done sooner. I don't see any signs that suggest Teague shouldn't be given longer to get things right. There have been many successful coaches that didn't set the world on fire in their early days - look at Richmond, Geelong and Hawthorn for examples of this. Hardwick, Thomson and Clarkson certainly had their detractors early and unless their clubs had shown some mettle would have been out of a job before they had achieved success.

It is so easy to get rid of a coach when things are not going well. Even though Clarkson is considered a great coach, Hawthorn are not going well this year and are second bottom and the result is that he has been moved on.

We need to stick tight and get behind the coach not take pot-shots at him all the time.

 

[Arr0w]

Why waste another year?

And we haven't improved from Teague's first stint of 6-5. Even if we win our next 3, that's still backwards, with recruits like Saad, Williams and Martin in.

What?

If we win our next 3, our win/loss ratio increases from last year

And, we most likely make the 8

 

[Magruder]

that's a really shallow effort compared to your usual contributions - how long does he get? 2 and a half, the end? seriously? you can't sense something going on?

Not when victory or improvement is based around unsustainable factors.
You’re right not much depth to my post, two considerations there:

The comparisons with great teams just before their successful eras are simply indulgences, baseless meanderings that devolve into apophenic articles of faith. Each club or group of players/coaches are on their own path and direct comparisons to circumstances elsewhere, at a different time, involving different personalities and group dynamics do nothing to resolve our issues. They are tiresome and meaningless and invite surrender to fatalism. We are not Richmond 2016 or Geelong 2006 Etc, our ascent or failure is not predetermined, nor is it made any more or less likely than historical events at any other club.

Secondly, many of us have expended time and effort explaining our objections to Teague’s game plan, one that provides limited margin for error. Minor adjustments at the back end of the season are simply too little too late. The win against St Kilda was exhilarating and I thoroughly enjoyed it. But despite what appeared to be greater player accountability and better emphasis on structure behind the ball, the game Teague wants to play is still reliant on ever increasing effort for limited reward and outstanding individual performances to hold us in the match.

It is not sustainable.

If the review recommends David stays, then yes I’ll support him unreservedly and wish him success. Until then I will not be shy in stating that I don’t think he’s the coach we deserve or need.