Training Team Fitness

[Kanga Glory]

gut running which only swallow and mcdonald are the only ones to show this consistinatly on saturday.
it is not only fitness but mental as well which tells me some of our players are a combination of both.
the power to will the mind and body. maybe the players dont care or want it as much as us passionate arm chair experts.

 

[ferball]

gut running which only swallow and mcdonald are the only ones to show this consistinatly on saturday.
it is not only fitness but mental as well which tells me some of our players are a combination of both.
the power to will the mind and body. maybe the players dont care or want it as much as us passionate arm chair experts.

I remember seeing an interview about Stevo when he was still breaking into the side.

After training he'd go and run 10 400m's and other players would spin out about it. I can't remember who the interview was with but it wasn't Stevo it was about him in the context of why he was so good and had so much respect.

 

[Kanga Glory]

I remember seeing an interview about Stevo when he was still breaking into the side.

After training he'd go and run 10 400m's and other players would spin out about it. I can't remember who the interview was with but it wasn't Stevo it was about him in the context of why he was so good and had so much respect.

thats the mental toughnesxto do that and it then creates a better fitness base and a stronger mindset

 

[ferball]

That's right.

Its just what we need.

 

[Roadrunner]

We are a weak team with a weak Coach.
Accepting defeated after defeated.

If I am the Coach, immense training and players should play their hearts out for every game. If not, drop them. No mediocre will accepted in first grade. The mind should be set on winning. Should be serious in training in every session. Need to train the mind and the body.

 

[breeno]

Breeno aren't you only a personal trainer? Leave the body comp stuff to the experts with a DEXA license. Not those who use BIA scales in a gym. Anaerobic burns less fat than aerobic respiration does. Here's an example taken from a dodgy website (still a good example and i can't be bothered scanning a better example):

View attachment 388384

It's pretty common knowledge that we stuffed up last season with our pre-season planning (2016 pre-season). The fitness staff assumed the reduced interchanges would result in a more enduranced based style. They were wrong. Almost every other club opted for repeated bursts or as it is more commonly know (HIIT). I assume we rectified it in the 2017 pre-season but we would still be a bit behind the 8-ball. Training AFL athletes is hard (I'd argue they are one of if not the hardest athlete in the world to train). Hinkley brought in Burgess widely known as one of the best in the business (came from liverpool and is now leaving port for Arsenal). They started off great and their repeated bursts were torching opposition players. But it's not a magic cure. They haven't been that good since (this season they have performed better).

I'd argue it comes down to laziness coupled with a lack of pace. Cousins has said that he would try to break opposition tags by using his pace. Against Cross (dogs - who at the time was one of the best taggers) he would start in the back 50 and sprint down the centre of the field and cross couldn't keep pace. He did it time and time again and cross couldn't go with him. Of course you still need a ridiculous fitness base behind you to pull that off.

I think that's why we get exposed on the counter so often. Ziebell, cunnington, dumont and co can't keep up and it forces others to zone off and cover. It's okay if the opposition bombs it in long because thompson, hansen, and tarrant are good at reading the play and chop it off. But if the opposition lowers their eyes or if the kicker has no pressure placed on them we tend to leak goals.

I work in tertiary research in that area, so I'm not sure where your potshot comes from. We also don't operate the DXA, we send them to a very nearby medical clinic for that. If you must pry, I am by no means a bona fide expert in the area of body composition, but I am surrounded by those experts every single day at my place of work, and they expect my knowledge to be at a certain level in order to contribute to discussions with them and to help facilitate their research, a level that is high enough for me to know that what you've written above has some major flaws. Should there be a greater point of debate, I'll just confer with them when I see them next and adjust my knowledge from there. I am exposed a lot more to the 'body composition' and nutrition side of exercise physiology (though it does all interrelate), hence why I am more confident to discuss body composition matters, that is all.

I think that it is more than fair that I stated that I have a "little bit of experience" in this area, and regardless of whatever it is that you were trying to imply (I am not a PT, FWIW), this is not just my opinion, but the opinion of many actual experts in this field.

It burns less fat via lipolysis but that is a minor, if not insignificant part, of overall body composition.

Edit: Just to add a little bit more detail now that I have the time.

Whether the energy is predominantly mobilised by way of lipolysis or glycolysis is not the key determinant of one's body composition.

First and foremost, you need to take into account the overall caloric intake and daily caloric expenditure of the subject. Put simply, if they are in a surplus, the body after having no better use for the energy will store it as fat; and will burn fat should they be in a deficit. This is a big problem for the researchers I work with in doing any kind of study, because subjects are notoriously horrible reporters of caloric intake, and often an isocaloric study is the key to it being a respectable study.

Then we also need to take into consideration the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption effects of HIIT. Basically, the energy expended in returning the body to homeostasis post-exercise. This is significantly higher for HIIT (AM Knab, et al, 2011). A good run-down is given in Schoenfeld, B., Dawes, J. (2009). High-Intensity Interval Training: Applications for General Fitness Training. Strength and Conditioning Journal, 31(6), 44-46 [though note 'general' the principles to body composition still apply, just whether or not it is the best path forward for athletic/sport-oriented fitness]. As for HIIT being, as far as the literature suggests to this point, better for muscle retention in periods of weight loss, studies such as those by Trapp et al. (2008), Burgomaster et al. (2008), (though this one was hardly definitive), and Wilson et al. (a meta-analysis of existing literature) all point to a trend of greater retention of lean muscle mass in HIIT compared to LISS.

I'm still not even sure what you are disputing, as the point was that some athletes may plateau at a certain weight in regards to their ability to perform repeated anaerobic feats, and that they may need to drop a kilogram, or two, or three, in order to improve in that regard. If they do need to drop some weight in order to perform better, then we obviously want them to retain as much lean muscle mass as possible in losing that weight. The choice of whether they do so (lose weight, that is) or not is up to our fitness staff and any given player's energy consumption, not the degree to which any particular form of exercise utilises lipolysis during the exercise itself. Just to repeat, the point was that from my observation, we seemed to be getting blown apart in the realm of repeated high intensity sprint work. I was merely suggesting that this be made a priority first and foremost, and IF our players have to sacrifice a little bit of weight to optimise performance there, that obvious we would try to have them retain as much muscle mass as is possible, whilst still keeping the priority goal in mind. I do not understand how that has provoked the response that it did.

---

As for the rest of it, I was unaware that we stuffed up our 2016 pre-season training and am glad to see that it has been recognized by the club. I didn't follow much of last year due to being overseas and snowed under by study and work commitments. As for if it is laziness or genuine inability, that's what I was asking in the OP. I wasn't sure and am still not sure.

If it is laziness, where do we go from there?


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[Gasometer]

I work in tertiary research in that area, so I'm not sure where your potshot comes from. We also don't operate the DXA, we send them to a very nearby medical clinic for that. If you must pry, I am by no means a bona fide expert in the area of body composition, but I am surrounded by those experts every single day at my place of work, and they expect my knowledge to be at a certain level in order to contribute to discussions with them and to help facilitate their research, a level that is high enough for me to know that what you've written above has some major flaws. Should there be a greater point of debate, I'll just confer with them when I see them next and adjust my knowledge from there. I am exposed a lot more to the 'body composition' and nutrition side of exercise physiology (though it does all interrelate), hence why I am more confident to discuss body composition matters, that is all.

I think that it is more than fair that I stated that I have a "little bit of experience" in this area, and regardless of whatever it is that you were trying to imply (I am not a PT, FWIW), this is not just my opinion, but the opinion of many actual experts in this field.

It burns less fat via lipolysis but that is a minor, if not insignificant part, of overall body composition.

Edit: Just to add a little bit more detail now that I have the time.

Whether the energy is predominantly mobilised by way of lipolysis or glycolysis is not the key determinant of one's body composition.

First and foremost, you need to take into account the overall caloric intake and daily caloric expenditure of the subject. Put simply, if they are in a surplus, the body after having no better use for the energy will store it as fat; and will burn fat should they be in a deficit. This is a big problem for the researchers I work with in doing any kind of study, because subjects are notoriously horrible reporters of caloric intake, and often an isocaloric study is the key to it being a respectable study.

Then we also need to take into consideration the excess post-exercise oxygen consumption effects of HIIT. Basically, the energy expended in returning the body to homeostasis post-exercise. This is significantly higher for HIIT (AM Knab, et al, 2011). A good run-down is given in Schoenfeld, B., Dawes, J. (2009). High-Intensity Interval Training: Applications for General Fitness Training. Strength and Conditioning Journal, 31(6), 44-46 [though note 'general' the principles to body composition still apply, just whether or not it is the best path forward for athletic/sport-oriented fitness]. As for HIIT being, as far as the literature suggests to this point, better for muscle retention in periods of weight loss, studies such as those by Trapp et al. (2008), Burgomaster et al. (2008), (though this one was hardly definitive), and Wilson et al. (a meta-analysis of existing literature) all point to a trend of greater retention of lean muscle mass in HIIT compared to LISS.

I'm still not even sure what you are disputing, as the point was that some athletes may plateau at a certain weight in regards to their ability to perform repeated anaerobic feats, and that they may need to drop a kilogram, or two, or three, in order to improve in that regard. If they do need to drop some weight in order to perform better, then we obviously want them to retain as much lean muscle mass as possible in losing that weight. The choice of whether they do so (lose weight, that is) or not is up to our fitness staff and any given player's energy consumption, not the degree to which any particular form of exercise utilises lipolysis during the exercise itself.

---

As for the rest of it, I was unaware that we stuffed up our 2016 pre-season training and am glad to see that it has been recognized by the club. I didn't follow much of last year due to being overseas and snowed under by study and work commitments. As for if it is laziness or genuine inability, that's what I was asking in the OP. I wasn't sure and am still not sure.

If it is laziness, where do we go from there?


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Send your resume to the Club.

 

[breeno]

Send your resume to the Club.

Unfortunately chose another (laughably unrelated) field to make my expertise and for the moment whilst I do my research I've been seconded over to working with the exercise physiology team for quite some time now. If I had my time again (and still may), I would love to branch into this field officially as it is by far the favourite of all the research areas that I've had to work with, more interesting than even my own. Would be a dream and an honour if I possessed the right official education to throw a resume at the club.

There are some guys who I have fleetingly crossed paths with who I would absolutely love to have at the club, and a few yanks who are worth a look at but would probably command way too much money for the value we'd get out of them as body comp. experts, they earn big bucks in the combat sports. We've poured money into physiotherapy and injury management and rightfully so. I think that's of a greater priority than blowing the budget on body comp. experts whose practical effect would be nowhere near as noticeable.


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[roos_fanatic08]

breeno How do you feel about the club doing very limited deadlift/squatting exercises? I would have thought those sort of exercises would have been integral for hip/lower/core strength in AFL footy, yet from what I've been told we don't do any of it (especially not low rep heavy weight stuff) as we are very risk adverse when it comes to our weight training.

 

[Zondor]

breeno How do you feel about the club doing very limited deadlift/squatting exercises? I would have thought those sort of exercises would have been integral for hip/lower/core strength in AFL footy, yet from what I've been told we don't do any of it (especially not low rep heavy weight stuff) as we are very risk adverse when it comes to our weight training.

And from what I've heard we aren't the only club who are concerned with the "risks" associated with deadlifting and squatting at a heavy weight. :stern look

Now do you remember that clip I posted in one of your threads of the guys bench pressing a few years back? If their technique in deadlifting and squatting is as bad as their bench pressing technique was in that clip then injuries will occur. :stern look

Anyways I too am interested in breeno's thoughts on the issue. :stern look

 

[breeno]

breeno How do you feel about the club doing very limited deadlift/squatting exercises? I would have thought those sort of exercises would have been integral for hip/lower/core strength in AFL footy, yet from what I've been told we don't do any of it (especially not low rep heavy weight stuff) as we are very risk adverse when it comes to our weight training.

Honestly not my place to say mate.

We've had a decent run with injury and our players seem pretty strong for their size so I'm not sure any lack of doing it is hurting too much, if at all.


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[Arthur Cloke]

We are sooooooo SLOOOOWWWWW running both offensively and defensively. We make Chris Tabaret look like Davie Warner.
Who's to blame? I don't know. But I was running huge distances last week until I developed a Hot-Spot in my foot so the moon boot is back on. Bloody nuisance I tell ya. Could be worse though - I remember developing a hot-spot in the old fella many moons ago - no fun in having that immobilised for 6 weeks!!!

 

[Uneik]

thats the mental toughnesxto do that and it then creates a better fitness base and a stronger mindset

A lot of comments and opinions re Physical fitness etc, but none that I can see/read about 'Mental Fitness and training', I feel that the mental aspect is just as important.

Also what are peoples thoughts about time of day (and night) and day of week a game is played, I'm sure that also has an effect, specially night games after more likely a players has been awake all day both physically and mentally, as most of us know, it is the beginning of day that we perform best and more mentally alert, not end of day...specially evening. maybe some players may subconsciously be drained after viewing a number of games before they play Sunday.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

There's no excuse for a lack of fitness. I consider myself a fairly mentally strong hombre. Like I'll do a staring contest in the mirror for hours just to test my mental altitude. Last week I rode to Echuca through Trentham, climbing Mt Franklin from the steep side on the way up. Did you see my hunched over my handlebars gasping for air Jack Z style? No. You didnt. And why? Because I gut-ride.

When Schwatter climbed Everest in a day a few months back, I was there cheering him on. I tilted my hat to him and he winked back at me as if to say, "She's apples." I don't recall Cunners, Swallow or DuMont ever climbing Everest in a day.

It's time for Saunders to go, and get a full time personal trainer down at Arden St.

 

[Reginald0]

Sure I think dumont needs 10kg of muscle, looks like a kid
BB same , can't hold his ground
And L T I am Fairly sure has feet or ankle problems He can not run for 4 qtrs Probly gone I'm guessing
Didn't lose cos of fitness tho

 

[Psicosis]

We definitely need to revamp our fitness staff - whatever we are currently doing is not working.

I also find that when compared with other teams, we have a lot of blokes carrying extra weight. Garner is a big worry for mine, would be a much better player if he was 5kg lighter.

 

[shintemaster]

Could be worse though - I remember developing a hot-spot in the old fella many moons ago - no fun in having that immobilised for 6 weeks!!!

Geeze. Harden up.