Team of the Century 1960- now

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Atomboy

Premiership Player
Jan 22, 2007
4,422
5,539
Yes
AFL Club
St Kilda
From what I’ve seen - 1993 onwards:

B: Archer - Scarlett - Enright
HB: Wanganeen - Jakovich - McLeod
C: Matera - Voss - Cousins
HF: Hird - Carey - Martin
F: Akermanis - Ablett Sr - Franklin
R: Cox - Judd - Ablett Jr
I: Gawn - Buckley - Hodge - Ricciuto

Simon Black is criminally underrated in all these discussions.
 

Sttew

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 28, 2006
25,926
25,644
Who's asking?
AFL Club
Geelong
From what I’ve seen - 1993 onwards:

B: Archer - Scarlett - Enright
HB: Wanganeen - Jakovich - McLeod
C: Matera - Voss - Cousins
HF: Hird - Carey - Martin
F: Akermanis - Ablett Sr - Franklin
R: Cox - Judd - Ablett Jr
I: Gawn - Buckley - Hodge - Ricciuto
That’s a classy post 93 team. I’d like to see Dangerfield in the team but can’t find an opening
 

lumpinee

MK ULTRA
Jul 18, 2019
3,401
5,016
across the park from commission flats
AFL Club
Richmond
its quaint to see players of the ilk of Judd,Ablett jr,Voss,Akermanis,Scarlett,Enright,Hodge,Cousins,Ricciuto,Macleod etc named,nice players i agree

but believe me they dont hold a candle to the likes of Skilton,Matthews,Blight,Bartlett,Jesaulenko,Doull,Cable,Greig,Hart,Lockett,S.Madden,Farmer
Quinlan,Flower,not forgetting these guys had day jobs to contend with as well

just have to look up the records of Blight,Cable,Skilton,Matthews,Bartlett,Jesaulenko,Lockett and Hart to get an indication that they all sit with the so called greatest
of all time Carey and the most gifted of all time Ablett sr on the same table
 

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Johnny Karate

Premiership Player
Apr 13, 2015
3,268
8,480
AFL Club
Melbourne
Simon Black is criminally underrated in all these discussions.

That’s a classy post 93 team. I’d like to see Dangerfield in the team but can’t find an opening
These things are tough to pick. I tend to favour positional balance. Black and Dangerfield are both amazing footballers. It’s not a sleight, I simply rate those in this team as marginally ahead.
 

WillHayward

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2018
11,229
15,410
South Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
I don't go back to 1960 lol, but i do go back to the mid/late 70's. Mathews and Doull being my cutoff players as even as older players for me they were superstars and walkup starters.

Ayres Silvagni Scarlett

McLeod Jakovich Doull

Matera Williams Ablett Snr

Daicos Carey(VC) Martin

Franklin Lockett Matthews(C)

Madden Judd Ablett Jnr

20 man over the top Royal Rumble for the bench spots
Good team.

Bartlett absolutely has to be on the bench.
778 goals as a mid/fwd.
 

Osho

Literally
Jul 9, 2021
2,741
2,780
AFL Club
GWS
Flower was so much better than Greig it's not funny.

Greig kicked 47 goals from 300 games. Flower kicked 40 goals from the wing in one season (315 in total).

But, unfortunately, he was rarely on TV, so your memory is limited.

And yes, I know Greig won 2 Brownlows, which was highly contentious at the time.
Excellent post.
Flower was indescribable. He regularly made 50 yard + gains, with ball in hand. Skills galore.

KB was a freak, blessed with speed, stamina, and fast twitch, and an uncontrolled mouth directed at umps, who got their revenge come Brownlow time early 70s.
 

Osho

Literally
Jul 9, 2021
2,741
2,780
AFL Club
GWS
its quaint to see players of the ilk of Judd,Ablett jr,Voss,Akermanis,Scarlett,Enright,Hodge,Cousins,Ricciuto,Macleod etc named,nice players i agree

but believe me they dont hold a candle to the likes of Skilton,Matthews,Blight,Bartlett,Jesaulenko,Doull,Cable,Greig,Hart,Lockett,S.Madden,Farmer
Quinlan,Flower,not forgetting these guys had day jobs to contend with as well

just have to look up the records of Blight,Cable,Skilton,Matthews,Bartlett,Jesaulenko,Lockett and Hart to get an indication that they all sit with the so called greatest
of all time Carey and the most gifted of all time Ablett sr on the same table
Nice to see "nice" used pejoratively.

And what's more, I agree with your assessment.
 

Meteoric Rise

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 4, 2008
7,334
18,272
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Flower was so much better than Greig it's not funny.

Greig kicked 47 goals from 300 games. Flower kicked 40 goals from the wing in one season (315 in total).

But, unfortunately, he was rarely on TV, so your memory is limited.

And yes, I know Greig won 2 Brownlows, which was highly contentious at the time.

I saw a lot of both of these players. Keith Greig was a tremendous player, fast, great overhead, beautifully balanced and a great kick. But I agree Flower was the better of the two. Flower is the best wingman I have seen, I don’t hesitate to say that. In this team it would be a simple matter of choosing the second best winger from the likes of Greig, Bourke, Matera, Hawkins. Probably just below those guys are a host of other excellent wingers, including Turner, maybe Millane being the best of those.
 

Meteoric Rise

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 4, 2008
7,334
18,272
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Daicos foot skills on either side of his body were better than any player I have ever seen. I will argue that Daics was a better kick than Aker and significantly.He was actually a more talented midfielder than forward. He kicked two lots of 50 plus playing centre and put the ball laces out either boot. Was also a thumping kick of the torp. Daics freakish goals became his trade mark but people forget he is probably the best all round kick in modern football. Daics at the feet of those players would have a feast. The Lions win Premierships without Aker but the Pies would not have won without Daics. He was a game changer

Interesting to compare some of these deadly mid-forward kicks to the extent we can, through their goal kicking accuracy.

Daicos career 1.51 goals per behind. Finals 1.63 goals per behind.

Akermanis career 1.36 goals per behind. Finals 1.34 goals per behind.

Martin career 1.5 goals per behind. Finals 2.25 goals per behind.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
11,552
10,278
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Interesting to compare some of these deadly mid-forward kicks to the extent we can, through their goal kicking accuracy.

Daicos career 1.51 goals per behind. Finals 1.63 goals per behind.

Akermanis career 1.36 goals per behind. Finals 1.34 goals per behind.

Martin career 1.5 goals per behind. Finals 2.25 goals per behind.
Being a gambling man, I assume you understand probability quite well.

What is the likelihood of the varying goals per behind ratio being due to the small sample size of the data set, as opposed to any alternative reason?!?
 

Meteoric Rise

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 4, 2008
7,334
18,272
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Being a gambling man, I assume you understand probability quite well.

What is the likelihood of the varying goals per behind ratio being due to the small sample size of the data set, as opposed to any alternative reason?!?

The large data sets tell the most reliable story for sure. Those show Dusty and Daicos with near identical conversion figures.

The finals data sets whilst smaller in comparison are very significant in terms of finals data sets, taking in between Martin’s 16 finals and Akermanis’ 28 finals. Daicos played 19 finals.

An average 250+ gamer these days would play quite a few less than Martin’s 16 finals. So it is a a serious sample of finals games. I think the figures just roughly tell the truth of the 3 players’ abilities to convert. Overall Martin and Daicos are similar and Akermanis is a level below them but still very decent. Daicos and Akermanis finals conversion figures vary no more than 8% from their career conversion rates. This is roughly what you would expect. Martin’s conversion rate increases by 50% in finals. And this to me just seems reflective of his well known and unique ability to rise to another level above normal excellence in finals.
 
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Ginnieboy

Club Legend
Aug 5, 2022
1,230
1,217
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ben Hart more in the conversation against Enright, McKenna, McKay, that size, imo. I have a great respect for James Clement too, fwiw, he had a great career, defender's defender.

Alastair Lynch at FB is an interesting call; probably didn't quite play there enough to genuinely stake a claim though, surely. Too valuable as a forward.

I'm still sticking fat with Bernie Smith as my back pocket. Gary Ayres, Bomber Thompson and Chris Johnson can raffle the other BP.
Clement is so underrated, not sure if we’re dealing with teenagers or people who never seen him play, at his peak his was almost unbeatable one on one and had that massive leg on him which turned defence into attack, Heath Shaw wasn’t half the player Clement was IMO.

As for Lynch, played most his time at Fitzroy as a FB, and there were none better, he was very similar to SOS as he could play fwd as well to great affect, Lynch IMO was stronger though.
 

Ginnieboy

Club Legend
Aug 5, 2022
1,230
1,217
AFL Club
Collingwood
The large data sets tell the most reliable story for sure. Those show Dusty and Daicos with near indentical conversion figures.

The finals data sets whilst smaller in comparison are very significant in terms of finals data sets, taking in between Martin’s 16 finals and Akermanis’ 28 finals. Daicos played 19 finals.

An average 250+ gamer these days would play quite a few less than Martin’s 16 finals. So it is a a serious sample of finals games. I think the figures just roughly tell the truth of the 3 players’ abilities to convert. Overall Martin and Daicos are similar and Akermanis is a level below them but still very decent. Daicos and Akermanis finals conversion figures vary no more than 8% from their career conversion rates. This is roughly what you would expect. Martin’s conversion rate increases by 50% in finals. And this to me just seems reflective of his well known and unique ability to rise to another level above normal excellence in finals.
Daicos played most of his finals as a lad, early 80s, and he played mostly centre - forward flank, was a completely different game back then, played many on one leg too.

IMO the Marvals first goal in the 1990 GF is the best goal ever kicked in a GF, one of the best goals full stop.
 
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Ginnieboy

Club Legend
Aug 5, 2022
1,230
1,217
AFL Club
Collingwood
Simon Black is criminally underrated in all these discussions.
Simon Black gets nowhere near that midfield IMO, Pendlebury would be as much of a chance, in fact I’d pick Pendles before Black any day of the week, Black played as a 2nd - 3rd fiddle mid FFS, he was never the man, he also had Voss - Lappin and aker around him, the fab 4, Buckley had the fab 1 and went within a goal of beating them in a GF, Buckley also beat them in the 2003 qualifying final and had at least an even ledger against that midfield group overall, but apparently all the fab 4 were the best at what they did.

Fact is Brisbane got very lucky with their 3peat, we knocked out Port in 2 of those years, 2002 we knocked them out on their home turf when they were flag favourite.
 
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Lingsface

Club Legend
May 9, 2005
2,562
613
perth
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
The large data sets tell the most reliable story for sure. Those show Dusty and Daicos with near identical conversion figures.

The finals data sets whilst smaller in comparison are very significant in terms of finals data sets, taking in between Martin’s 16 finals and Akermanis’ 28 finals. Daicos played 19 finals.

An average 250+ gamer these days would play quite a few less than Martin’s 16 finals. So it is a a serious sample of finals games. I think the figures just roughly tell the truth of the 3 players’ abilities to convert. Overall Martin and Daicos are similar and Akermanis is a level below them but still very decent. Daicos and Akermanis finals conversion figures vary no more than 8% from their career conversion rates. This is roughly what you would expect. Martin’s conversion rate increases by 50% in finals. And this to me just seems reflective of his well known and unique ability to rise to another level above normal excellence in finals.
Akermanis has kicked the most in a grand final as well.
 

Mick F

Mighty Snr
Dec 26, 2013
5,234
8,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
Not sure you can exclude Stewart, Hart, Greg on the basis of your 1960s cut off date. Stewart would be ahead of Voss, Judd, Martin.

Also not sure how Cox goes ahead of Polly. Good modern ruckmen but not an all time legend.

Aker was a good player but wouldn't be on a half forward flank ahead of Martin or more accurately Kevin Bartlett given the time frame.
Agree. Madden was a better ruckman than Cox.
 

Mick F

Mighty Snr
Dec 26, 2013
5,234
8,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
So my view would be on the time frames involved:

B: Big Nick, Silvani, Wanganeen
HB: Doull, Roos, Ayres
C: Greig, Stewart, GAJ
HF: Franklin, Carey, Bartlett
FF: GAS, Lockett, Matthews
Fol: Polly, Skilton, Williams
Int: Dunstall, Judd, Martin, Bourke

CHB was difficult. Could have gone with Scarlet, Rance, Glendinning or Knights easily. Murray misses out in my opinion on a flank.

Went with Wanganeen but thought about McLeod for that spot also. Both great players and equally worthy.

My view is that of modern players Franklin, GAJ, Judd and Martin have marked their cards. There's probably several players unlucky such as Hird, Voss, Buckley, Roo (St Kilda and Adelaide varieties), Pavlich, Dangerfield, Pendles and Fyfe who all come to mind (and many others that I think could be a chance like Darren Jarman).

Edit: I subbed in Matera for Greig unintentionally (recency bias). Greig was sensational and with Matera, Hawkins and Flower my pick for the 'pure wingmen'. Could also move Gary Senior up there from the flank as I'm largely cheating putting Jnr in at wing
Close to the mark. Far better starting point.
 

Mick F

Mighty Snr
Dec 26, 2013
5,234
8,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
I would take hodge over archer any day of the week.
Archer maybe for versatility if you were short of tall defenders which your not. (I know he is not tall, but had the ability to play on talls). In terms of ball use and ball winning ability hodge by a country mile.
But not over Doull or Ken Hunter.
 

Mick F

Mighty Snr
Dec 26, 2013
5,234
8,842
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ben Hart more in the conversation against Enright, McKenna, McKay, that size, imo. I have a great respect for James Clement too, fwiw, he had a great career, defender's defender.

Alastair Lynch at FB is an interesting call; probably didn't quite play there enough to genuinely stake a claim though, surely. Too valuable as a forward.

I'm still sticking fat with Bernie Smith as my back pocket. Gary Ayres, Bomber Thompson and Chris Johnson can raffle the other BP.
Smith retired in 1958.
 

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