Team vs Collingwood!

[mojo31]

Agree with most of what you have said Mojo, especially with regards to Sydney. However, I think you may be overating our midfield a little....its workmanlike and we are getting better rotations this year but it's hardly dominant. Our use of the ball has been ok.....can be awful at times but much improved on past seasons.

Part of that improvement has come from the kids developing but most is that they have a forward line and structure to kick to.

You guys are very dependent upon Fev kicking a bag to help get you a winning score. We got 1 goal from Tarrant and Rocca combined against Essendon but had cameos from Buckley (3) and Didak (4) to pick up the slack. Not sure you guys have the playing personel to pick up the slack when your big guns don't fire.

Irrespective......I don't accept that you have a better forward line-up as many on this site have proclaimed.

All good comments.

I dont actualle rate your midfield that highly.Its just they are all playing very well right now and therefore making it easier for the forwards. Guys like O'Bree etc are playing at there absolute bests. Now he is a solid jorneyman and it is not likely to continue but at the moment as a midfield group you are performing at about maximum. A injury or 2 and a few teams working out the different strategies on offer and things can change quickly.

Your forward line is better than ours. Not by that much but it is.

I think the thing with our forward line is that Waite has been injured and out for a bit. Fev got suspeneded/ Fisher missed a few weeks. When they are all fit and ready to go in 2 or 3 weeks and we bring Kennedy in we might have a better idea.
But until our players develop better skills to kick to there advantage we wont be kicking a lot of goals. Murphy has already set up more goals than the rest of our midfield combined. We lack class and poise in there.

 

[Blue Forever]

Does anyone think that they might line Walker up on Tarrant considering the good job he did on Croad a couple of weeks ago? Don't really have another matchup for Tarrant.

Good call. Walker would be ideal for Tarrant. He is the only player who can match Tarrant with speed & endurance. The only question will be Tarrant's strength. What happen's if Malthouse decides to isolate Tarrant in the goal square? Can Walker match him body on body?

 

[Collingwoodrow]

All good comments.

Guys like O'Bree etc are playing at there absolute bests.

A injury or 2 and a few teams working out the different strategies on offer and things can change quickly.

Don't get me started on O'Bree. He and Lonie have been my whippin boys in the past...but I confess they have been playing well.

As far as survivinjg a few (inevitable) midfield injuries...I think we will be ok there. We have a kid Scott Pendlebury (#5 pick) who oozes class and won't be far off (looks a little like Dalsanto....smooth left footer that seems to have all day). We got Rhyce Shaw to come back in who will free up either his brother or Ben Johnson to play more midfield. Brodie will be back in this week for possibly Davies.....so I think we can cover a few losses.

I guess my last words on this topic will be that Collingwood's forward line is producing whilst Carlton's forward line has the potential to be effective when up and running.

NIce to have some constructive debate on the site without getting shouted down

 

[Funkalicous]

Collingwood's forwards are playing better than ours now, but they're probably a combined 30 years older.

Potentially, down the track, I think Carlton could have the 1st ever billion dollar forward line. -Of which guys like Fev, Whitnall, Fisher, Waite, and Kennedy will be a part of.

Player salaries will need to have risen though.

 

[bibi01]

You guys are forgetting that we will have another tall at times in the forward line in Fraser! How will you match up on him given that he is playing better by the hour? You better hope your midfielders get back and help out

who rucks while fraser is in the FWD line?

 

[Collingwoodrow]

who rucks while fraser is in the FWD line?

Guy Richards...

 

[bibi01]

Guy Richards...

cheers

i have not seen much of collingwood and don't know if richards is in any kind of form,
but I would say what you gain from fraser going FWD, you may lose while richards is in the ruck

but the ruck is irrelevant if your onballers can't win the ball at the contest.

 

[Collingwoodrow]

cheers

i have not seen much of collingwood and don't know if richards is in any kind of form,
but I would say what you gain from fraser going FWD, you may lose while richards is in the ruck

but the ruck is irrelevant if your onballers can't win the ball at the contest.

Neither Richards or Fraser are particularly dominant in the centre bounce contests. If anything, Guy would probably get his hands on a better percentage of contests than Josh - effectiveness would be similar.

Richards form has not been good......he does not contribute much around the ground but I suspect he will retain his spot off the bench for a few more weeks yet. He did have a dominant (I think it was the third, maybe fourth) quarter against the Kangaroos with some excellent tap work enabling our midfield to clear on numerous occassions. He has sustained a number of injuries over the years and has been slow in developing but I think the club must see him as our future first ruck.

I guess the biggest strength that Guy has is that his presence releases Josh to go forward (not much of a prop I know).

Even as a ruck though, Josh will go forward and kick goals. So Barnaby will have to pick him up rather than just drop back into space. Josh brings more to our structure than just "stats". He has a great knack at floating and finding space. Depsite the fact he looks slow on the lead and it often looks like the ball will get punched from behind, he has immaculate timing (like James Hird - obviously not to his level) that see's him hold ones you think will be defended.

 

[Andyt30]

i worked out it will be heath scotlands 100th game incidently against his old side hope that spurs the Blues to win it for him in the afl mag he was on 94 games end of 2005 wouldn;t he like to stick it at Eddie Mcguire and Co

 

[rychenroller]

You guys potentially have a very good forward line in Fev, whitnall, Waite and the odd guy in there with cameos, you also are ok in the middle with Murphy, Scotland, Stevens, Kouta and co...dunno about your backline, hard working but low on class.

You guys have just got to use it better, if you murder the ball like last week against the Tiggers, we'll beat you by a conservative 8 goals. If you use it well from your clearances and give the forwards a chance, it will be a close game, pies prevailing by 3 goals or so.

Problem with ball use is its not going to improve the margin it needs to overnight. Average weather could help, but in the end...even if you are close, you may just shoot yourselves in the foot.

Good luck!

 

[starz]

Teague in for McLaren anyone?

 

[Jeremias]

Teague in for McLaren anyone?

no way. no real matchup for teague, and his skills and pace are horrible. mclaren is a required player, to back up barnaby, and will definitely be needed this week, matching up against the resting ruckman in the forward line.

 

[HomerThompson]

Considered opinions & respectful discussion from opposing fans - am I dreaming?

Thanks to all contributors for an interesting & enjoyable thread.

 

[Jabso]

Collingwood's forwards are playing better than ours now, but they're probably a combined 30 years older.

Collingwood:
HF: C.Tarrant (25), T.Cloke (19), D.Thomas (18)
F: A.Didak (23), A.Rocca (28), N.Buckley (33)

Average age: 24.34

Carlton:
HF: J.Waite (23), L.Whitnall (26), E.Betts (19)
F: B.Fisher (22), B.Fevola (25), A.Koutoufides (33)

Average Age: 24.67

Close

Yes I realise that players like Koutafides will be rotated with the Kade Simpsons and Buckley also is rotated. I'm not saying that Collingwood have a younger forward line but we're definately not a forward line of verterans.

 

[murphster]

You guys are forgetting that we will have another tall at times in the forward line in Fraser! How will you match up on him given that he is playing better by the hour? You better hope your midfielders get back and help out

Mclaren will take Fraser when he goes forward just like he took Stafford and beat him last week so that does not worry me at all. As for our midfield i hope they don't get back to much as they need to be attacking forward of centre.

 

[Collingwoodrow]

Mclaren will take Fraser when he goes forward just like he took Stafford and beat him last week so that does not worry me at all. As for our midfield i hope they don't get back to much as they need to be attacking forward of centre.

Fraser and Stafford, although both ruckman playing forward are like chalk and cheese when playing in the forward line. Stafford play's a more traditional forwards role with short leads and 1 out contests whereas Fraser will get on the long lead and also float with the flight of the ball. Will be a difficult match-up for Mclaren although I agree he should get first crack at him.

 

[bibi01]

fraser will be too quick for mclaren.

mclaren was a good match up for stafford, as stafford is slow and doesn't move too far from the goalsquare.

whitnall, walker, thornton and saddington to be used to cover collingwoods 4 talls

 

[Jabso]

What if we put Presti forward too!!!!!!

 

[mojo31]

Collingwood:
HF: C.Tarrant (25), T.Cloke (19), D.Thomas (18)
F: A.Didak (23), A.Rocca (28), N.Buckley (33)

Average age: 24.34

Carlton:
HF: J.Waite (23), L.Whitnall (26), E.Betts (19)
F: B.Fisher (22), B.Fevola (25), A.Koutoufides (33)

Average Age: 24.67

Close

Yes I realise that players like Koutafides will be rotated with the Kade Simpsons and Buckley also is rotated. I'm not saying that Collingwood have a younger forward line but we're definately not a forward line of verterans.

Lance has played 3 + 1 quater up forward. So thats 1 game out of 5.

Murphy and Houlihan swap between themselves for the wing and the half forward flank. So they need to be included.
Deluca has to be put in there.

Deluca
Fev
Waite
Fisher
Betts
Houlihan/Murphy 50% each.

Thats the basic set up. Kennedy to come in this week.

 

[bibi01]

Collingwood:
HF: C.Tarrant (25), T.Cloke (19), D.Thomas (18)
F: A.Didak (23), A.Rocca (28), N.Buckley (33)

Average age: 24.34

Carlton:
HF: J.Waite (23), L.Whitnall (26), E.Betts (19)
F: B.Fisher (22), B.Fevola (25), A.Koutoufides (33)

Average Age: 24.67

Close

Yes I realise that players like Koutafides will be rotated with the Kade Simpsons and Buckley also is rotated. I'm not saying that Collingwood have a younger forward line but we're definately not a forward line of verterans.

age doesn't mean much.
i would say games played would provide a better indication

rough calculation

C.Tarrant, T.Cloke, D.Thomas, A.Didak, A.Rocca, N.Buckley
J.Waite, E.Betts, B.Fisher, B.Fevola, A.Koutoufides, (houlihan/murphy)

coll avg: 120 games
carl avg: 90 games

 

[Jabso]

I'm not the one who said 30 years younger.
We were talking age not inexperience.

 

[iluvparis]

Collingwood:
HF: C.Tarrant (25), T.Cloke (19), D.Thomas (18)
F: A.Didak (23), A.Rocca (28), N.Buckley (33)

Average age: 24.34

Carlton:
HF: J.Waite (23), L.Whitnall (26), E.Betts (19)
F: B.Fisher (22), B.Fevola (25), A.Koutoufides (33)

Average Age: 24.67

Close

Yes I realise that players like Koutafides will be rotated with the Kade Simpsons and Buckley also is rotated. I'm not saying that Collingwood have a younger forward line but we're definately not a forward line of verterans.

If I was a Collingwood fan I would be worrying about how good our midfield must be if we can play a $1,000,000 midfielder on the half-forward flank.

 

[hellraiser]

How did Scotland end up at Carlton?