Current Teen dead after Ballarat brawl - *UPDATE 2 CHARGED WITH MURDER*

[Ghostwriter]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html

When I first saw the headline I thought just another blue outside a pub but on reading the above link its a lot more than that, quite frightening for all involved.

Another link with more info.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/teena...le-near-ballarat/story-e6frea6u-1226547972903

 

[Paul Kersey]

Read it. Pretty ******* average state of affairs.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html

Is anyone else ******* disturbed by this?

 

[JUBJUB]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html

Since when have news reports put the house number of the place where a crime has been committed ?
Yes they'll have the suburb and maybe street,but I've never seen a house number mentioned.

 

[CAS79]

Since when have news reports put the house number of the place where a crime has been committed ?
Yes they'll have the suburb and maybe street,but I've never seen a house number mentioned.

Dont know but something happened in Scarsdale a year or two ago of a similar nature possibly without a fatality and a big local dispute. possible by putting the street number a number of people will know whats going on and point toward the offenders responsible.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Channel 9 reported the weapon used was "an axe or a baseball bat".

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Dont know but something happened in Scarsdale a year or two ago of a similar nature possibly without a fatality and a big local dispute. possible by putting the street number a number of people will know whats going on and point toward the offenders responsible.

Three people have already been arrested. Sounds pretty horrific, a young teenager losing his life seemingly when trying to defend a couple of teenaged girls. I can't imagine this getting half the coverage or pages created by outraged people on Facebook as some other killings recently committed in Victoria, but this sounds just as bad as any of them to me.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Wonder whether the kid that didn't go back to the house was somehow involved with the 3 offenders ie drug debt, drugs are slowly but surely becoming a scourge in society and i'm definitely not a wowser but these drive by shootings, and so called random bashings have to have a reason. ppl just don't randomly shoot at houses, bash ppl with iron bars, houses aren't randomly invaded, the primary cause is drugs.

 

[Paul Kersey]

We'll have to wait and see. Not much information around at this point of time other than we have some killers of a 14 year old child and three people are under questioning.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Wonder whether the kid that didn't go back to the house was somehow involved with the 3 offenders ie drug debt, drugs are slowly but surely becoming a scourge in society and i'm definitely not a wowser but these drive by shootings, and so called random bashings have to have a reason. ppl just don't randomly shoot at houses, bash ppl with iron bars, houses aren't randomly invaded, the primary cause is drugs.

I'm finding it hard to understand how many 'boys' (not offenders) were involved:

From the Age:

The 14-year-old was allegedly murdered, and his stepfather injured, in an attack at 12 Carlyle Street in rural Scarsdale this morning.

Details are sketchy about the circumstances of the boy's death, but police say two girls, aged 17 and 19, and another boy aged 16, were at the house when one of the girls received a threatening, whispering phone call.​

The girls became scared and left to get help from the dead boy's stepfather, aged 45.The boy, aged 14, went with them back to the house. The other boy, 17, remained in the house.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html#ixzz2H5WmW1E0​

From the ABC:​

​

Police say two teenage girls, a 14-year-old boy and his step-father were attacked outside a house in Carlyle Street this morning around 5.00am (AEDT) after one of the girls received a threatening phone call.

The 14-year-old boy was hit on the head with a blunt object and died at the scene.
​

From the Hun:

Sen-Sgt Solomon said two girls, aged 19 and 17, were at the house with a 16-year old boy when one of the girls received a threatening phone call.

The girls went to the nearby home of the 14-year old boy to ask for help from his dad.

When the four arrived back at the address three men were waiting for them.

So, to break it down:

Age: Probably a typo, but they mention a boy aged 16, then a boy aged 17, in the house. Probably the same person, but who knows? Assuming it's the same boy and they just got the age wrong one of the times they mention him, he stays in the house, presumably, in case someone comes there. Certainly raises a few questions. I mean, if the girls are freaked out enough by the phone call to flee the house, why the hell would he stay there? And wouldn't they just attack the first person they saw (i.e. the 16/17 year old)?

ABC: Mentions no boy, apart from the 14 year old who has died.

Herald-Sun: Also suggests that they other boy stayed at the house, but again, if the attackers got there before the girls and the victims returned, why wouldn't he have been attacked (maybe he hid)?
​

 

[CAS79]

I'm finding it hard to understand how many 'boys' (not offenders) were involved:

From the Age:



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html#ixzz2H5WmW1E0
From the ABC:



From the Hun:



So, to break it down:

Age: Probably a typo, but they mention a boy aged 16, then a boy aged 17, in the house. Probably the same person, but who knows? Assuming it's the same boy and they just got the age wrong one of the times they mention him, he stays in the house, presumably, in case someone comes there. Certainly raises a few questions. I mean, if the girls are freaked out enough by the phone call to flee the house, why the hell would he stay there? And wouldn't they just attack the first person they saw (i.e. the 16/17 year old)?

ABC: Mentions no boy, apart from the 14 year old who has died.

Herald-Sun: Also suggests that they other boy stayed at the house, but again, if the attackers got there before the girls and the victims returned, why wouldn't he have been attacked (maybe he hid)?

Dont you find it strange in age of mobile telephones the girls were scared but left the house rather than just lock the doors and call for help? Outside would be more dangerous.... unless they were frighted by a person or persons already in the house.

 

[Ghostwriter]

From the detectives pov, pretty easy to trace the call back to the caller, suspect number 1, plus the 3 would've been id pretty quick, whoever swung the blow is looking at a stretch thats certain.

 

[CAS79]

From the detectives pov, pretty easy to trace the call back to the caller, suspect number 1, plus the 3 would've been id pretty quick, whoever swung the blow is looking at a stretch thats certain.

plenty of pre paid sims and cheap phones purchased under fake names if the people were smart... if not than stupidity reigns.

 

[Ghostwriter]

Three people have already been arrested.

Do you have a link?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Dont you find it strange in age of mobile telephones the girls were scared but left the house rather than just lock the doors and call for help? Outside would be more dangerous.... unless they were frighted by a person or persons already in the house.

I find a lot of things strange about the story at the moment (details are sketchy, to put it mildly).

All of the reports mention one of the girls receiving 'a threatening phone call'. This implies that the call was received on a mobile phone, though it could have been a landline. They obviously took the threat seriously enough to flee immediately, however the other occupant in the house (if there was one, which isn't the impression that the ABC report gives) either wasn't made aware of the threat (perhaps he was part of the threat, as you mentioned, not a possibility I'd considered, to be honest), wasn't scared enough to take the same action as the girls, or felt compelled to stay and guard the house for some other reason that superceded any perceived danger.

So the girls summon some nearby help (people that they were close to, or just the first people they could find?) presumably not expecting anything near the extent of what happened to unfold (otherwise they would have just stayed at the other house and called the police, surely). They decide to go back to the house (armed? If the girls were that scared, but they still felt safe enough to head back to the house, presumably they would not have headed back there empty-handed). Two men and a woman are waiting for them (including the 16/17 year old who had already been in the house? I don't think he would have been referred to as a 'man').

Assuming it's three new people at the property, you've got to think that these are the same three people who have been taken in for questioning? Where is the other orignal occupant in this? To me, it doesn't sound like he's suspected of anything, though he just seems to vanish from the story, after the girls left the house.

The Age report says the boy 'appeared to be a bystander'. So, the 45 year old confronted the intruders, probably was attacked with the weapon, maybe the boy came in to help his stepfather and was killed? That's how I see it unfolding. Then one of the girls (what about the other one?) again ran from the house to a paddock and called police. But if one of the girls was the one that received the call to start with, why was the boy who was killed? It doesn't sound like they chased after her.

Just a lot of WTFs at the moment...

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Do you have a link?

The Age report I linked to before.

THREE people have been taken into custody following the death of a teenage boy in a small town near Ballarat.

The 14-year-old was allegedly murdered, and his stepfather injured, in an attack at 12 Carlyle Street in rural Scarsdale this morning.

Police said two men and a woman, all believed to be from Ballarat, were helping with their inquiries.

No charges have been laid.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teen-dead-after-brawl-in-ballarat-20130105-2c9lw.html#ixzz2H5iisBux​

 

[Paul Kersey]

From the detectives pov, pretty easy to trace the call back to the caller, suspect number 1, plus the 3 would've been id pretty quick, whoever swung the blow is looking at a stretch thats certain.

Obviously don't know the full story but if some adult has beaten a 14 year old to death they should be looking at a town lynching rather than a stretch in the big house.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Obviously don't know the full story but if some adult has beaten a 14 year old to death they should be looking at a town lynching rather than a stretch in the big house.

Not far enough. I reckon they should be sentenced to transportation, personally .

 

[Paul Kersey]

Roll your eyes all you like. It's my view.

 

[Ghostwriter]

I find a lot of things strange about the story at the moment (details are sketchy, to put it mildly).

All of the reports mention one of the girls receiving 'a threatening phone call'. This implies that the call was received on a mobile phone, though it could have been a landline. They obviously took the threat seriously enough to flee immediately, however the other occupant in the house (if there was one, which isn't the impression that the ABC report gives) either wasn't made aware of the threat (perhaps he was part of the threat, as you mentioned, not a possibility I'd considered, to be honest), wasn't scared enough to take the same action as the girls, or felt compelled to stay and guard the house for some other reason that superceded any perceived danger.

So the girls summon some nearby help (people that they were close to, or just the first people they could find?) presumably not expecting anything near the extent of what happened to unfold (otherwise they would have just stayed at the other house and called the police, surely). They decide to go back to the house (armed? If the girls were that scared, but they still felt safe enough to head back to the house, presumably they would not have headed back there empty-handed). Two men and a woman are waiting for them (including the 16/17 year old who had already been in the house? I don't think he would have been referred to as a 'man').

Assuming it's three new people at the property, you've got to think that these are the same three people who have been taken in for questioning? Where is the other orignal occupant in this? To me, it doesn't sound like he's suspected of anything, though he just seems to vanish from the story, after the girls left the house.

The Age report says the boy 'appeared to be a bystander'. So, the 45 year old confronted the intruders, probably was attacked with the weapon, maybe the boy came in to help his stepfather and was killed? That's how I see it unfolding. Then one of the girls (what about the other one?) again ran from the house to a paddock and called police. But if one of the girls was the one that received the call to start with, why was the boy who was killed? It doesn't sound like they chased after her.

Just a lot of WTFs at the moment...

Good effort, I tried writing something similar but lost track of the wtf's, my understanding is the 16/17 year old stayed at the stepfathers house and the 2 girls the stepdad and the 14 year old went back to the original house, again about the mobile phone call, pretty sure when the perps made the EAR/ONS phone call they probably didn't have murder on thier mind. Also raises the question how many phone calls had the perps made perhaps to the 17 year old who i presume had an outstanding drug debt, the perps probably did a drive by of the house beforehand id the kid at the house rang his gf as a threatening tactic and things spiralled from there.

 

[CAS79]

Reckon we might want a few more hard facts before an emotive capital punishment debate springs up.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Reckon we might want a few more hard facts before an emotive capital punishment debate springs up.

It's not emotive when it's a view I've held my entire adult life. Not going to debate it either given we all know it's not an option.

 

[CAS79]

It's not emotive when it's a view I've held my entire adult life. Not going to debate it either given we all know it's not an option.

It'a also not for the crime board, Grizz has made that quite clear. it's a SCP board issue.

 

[Paul Kersey]

That's fine - I never suggested debating it was.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Good effort, I tried writing something similar but lost track of the wtf's, my understanding is the 16/17 year old stayed at the stepfathers house and the 2 girls the stepdad and the 14 year old went back to the original house, again about the mobile phone call, pretty sure when the perps made the EAR/ONS phone call they probably didn't have murder on thier mind. Also raises the question how many phone calls had the perps made perhaps to the 17 year old who i presume had an outstanding drug debt, the perps probably did a drive by of the house beforehand id the kid at the house rang his gf as a threatening tactic and things spiralled from there.

That's a big leap, not one I'm prepared to make, to be honest. Considering the girl receiving the phone call and a woman being in custody, it could just as easily be some sort of love triangle. Too early to judge a motive (and we probably won't be aware of what it was, until a trial is held). You could well be right, but I certainly wouldn't guarantee that drugs were certainly the motive at this stage.

The biggest WTF I have though, is the (alleged) other teenaged boy either vanishing (figuratively), or (as you've pointed out as a possibility) going with two girls to another house and letting the two girls go back with another man and an even younger boy. Surely, even if the boy and his stepfather had a reputation as absolute hardarses, they'd want as many hands on deck (so to speak) as possible? Or, if the girls felt comfortable going back to the house with these other two males, I just can't imagine what excuse the other boy could have had to say 'Nah, you go ahead...I'll just chill here. Good luck!' Unless...maybe, it was a threat by proxy to the other boy, because they only had her phone number (still find it hard to believe that the girls would have gone back to the house in that situation)??