The Law Terror Threat in Melbourne averted.

[VineyIsLORD]

Yeah most people can handle their alcohol without becoming addicted and/or becoming a violent ****. Some can't though. Same goes with ice. There may be a higher proportion of ice users that pose a risk to society than alcohol drinkers (though I don't know the actual figures to confirm this), but it's still very much the minority of users.

I used to know a lot of people with decent jobs who smoked ice most weekends.

Didnt seem to ruin their lives. They just grew out of it. They have kids and mortgages now

But likewise i have known of people who seriously ruined their lives over it.

Still it beats the 90s when mates were dropping like flies on heroin ODs.

 

[NSWCROW]

Seppo dense kents crying on twitter saying that video of the bloke saying dickhead was yelling " god is great " is being censored........


Politely informed him that , as it's a murdoch link , there's about......hmmmmmm , SWEET * ALL of a chance it'd be censored.


One at a time crow.........

 

[Ron The Bear]

I agree. And it IS a discussion we need to have.

We're probably less likely to reach a consensus than in the past.

There's something to be said for each side, but Beliefs -> Criminals is a point of departure for me.

Left - social and economic victims
Right - choose to be criminals

While there's been a large recent swing to the Left view, I'll have to cite irreconcilable differences.

(taken from Information Is Beautiful by David McCandless)

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I used to know a lot of people with decent jobs who smoked ice most weekends.

Didnt seem to ruin their lives. They just grew out of it. They have kids and mortgages now

But likewise i have known of people who seriously ruined their lives over it.

Still it beats the 90s when mates were dropping like flies on heroin ODs.

Oh s**t yeah, I've got some very close mates that have ****ed their lives completely with the s**t.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Seppo dense kents crying on twitter saying that video of the bloke saying dickhead was yelling " god is great " is being censored........


Politely informed him that , as it's a murdoch link , there's about......hmmmmmm , SWEET **** ALL of a chance it'd be censored.


One at a time crow.........

To be fair it isnt just dense seppos who think murdoch news is somehow not msm.

 

[medusala]

Tough break for the cops.

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...a/news-story/6699f4f2e05d6ff418358fc057ab27c6

Police believe the man had been on a criminal rampage since the early hours of Friday.

He is accused of stabbing his brother in Windsor at around 2am, and at around 11.45am police tried to pull him over on the Bolte Bridge armed with guns and tasers but aborted their pursuit because his driving was too dangerous.

 

[Ron The Bear]

"In a remarkably similar case more than ten years ago, the Special Operations Group intercepted a drug-affected armed murder suspect in South Melbourne.

He was shot dead and subsequently the police involved were criticised by the coroner, with the details sent to the Director of Pubic Prosecutions to see if they should be charged with criminal offences.

The then head of the SOG John Noonan was outraged saying, "They [the four police who fired shots] should have been given medals, not criticism."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/k...ptible-city-is-to-attack-20170120-gtvr5a.html

 

[Gavin Excell]

I struggle to see the case of decriminalisation of ice. Perhaps i have a simple view on this but wouldnt this lead to more rampant use and more pointless rage and acts of violence?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Hammer. Nail. Head.

And the judges didn't care more to the point. The average member of society would have no idea it happened unless the closely follow court cases, but you think judges should have a clue.

 

[Crankyhawk]

How's your life as a law abiding citizen effected by some kid getting off their **** at a festival?

If it turns them psychotic and starting to get violent etc it absolutely affects me, I have to clear out someone who is actually sick from my emergency resus area to sedate and physically restrain the *er. Now it is true alcohol is still probably the most common but ice is running a close second at least in my ED

 

[Crankyhawk]

I haven't tried it myself, but it does appear this particular drug is doing more harm than good. I would decriminalise its use and boost the funding of community-based rehab, but keeps its manufacture and import illegal.

I would criminalise and negative actions from its use rather than allowing the "diminished responsibility " loophole. I know of a case (alcohol not ice) where someone on a corrections order instead of jail has not met with the corrections officer due to chronic intoxication. When I asked if that is a valid excuse, the officer said yes it is and up to a judge to decide if they want to do anything about it.

 

[Gough]

If it turns them psychotic and starting to get violent etc it absolutely affects me, I have to clear out someone who is actually sick from my emergency resus area to sedate and physically restrain the goose. Now it is true alcohol is still probably the most common but ice is running a close second at least in my ED

I appreciate that is a problem, I was referring to the poster who'd rather see people die than allow pill testing to be done at clubs, and festivals though.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That sounds like a lot of organising is to be done. I can think of easier ways to scare the goose. I would give the deceased childs father the first crack at him.

Easier in hospital, just needs some angry medical staff. And technically doesn't violate do no harm as they are supporting breathing....

 

[Crankyhawk]

I appreciate that is a problem, I was referring to the poster who'd rather see people die than allow pill testing to be done at clubs, and festivals though.

I have no problem with pill testing, sometimes the unpredictable effects are due to other ingredients or variation in concentration etc. I'm not sure how it works, do you test one pill in every batch sold? Which still doesn't guarantee the safety of the others in what can be not controlled manufacturing, or multiple manufacturers put in one bag. Or you test every pill, but I don't know how much is left to use after testing.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I used to know a lot of people with decent jobs who smoked ice most weekends.

Didnt seem to ruin their lives. They just grew out of it. They have kids and mortgages now

But likewise i have known of people who seriously ruined their lives over it.

Still it beats the 90s when mates were dropping like flies on heroin ODs.

No, it doesn't, we can antidote heroin, and the heroin users just sleep in the corner rather than trying to punch on.

 

[BlueSherrin]

No, it doesn't, we can antidote heroin, and the heroin users just sleep in the corner rather than trying to punch on.

The heroin users I know are thieving bastards. Try taking a heroin addicts heroin from them and they turn violent. They don't just sleep in the corner.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

No, it doesn't, we can antidote heroin, and the heroin users just sleep in the corner rather than trying to punch on.

In a legalised situation sure, heroin is relatively harmless. I agree that chemically it is probably less harmful.

But the heroin epidemic in the 90s produced far more deaths and crime (and some ******* horrific gang violence) than what we are getting with ice.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

If it turns them psychotic and starting to get violent etc it absolutely affects me, I have to clear out someone who is actually sick from my emergency resus area to sedate and physically restrain the goose. Now it is true alcohol is still probably the most common but ice is running a close second at least in my ED

Out of curiosity did you ever have serious problems with MDMA at the ED?

I am convinced if MDMA was legal and regulated ice use would drop off significantly.

And MDMA has few side effects and isnt chemically addictive.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The heroin users I know are thieving bastards. Try taking a heroin addicts heroin from them and they turn violent. They don't just sleep in the corner.

Sorry meant when they are in hospital comparing to ice addicts in same situation. Both are often thieving to support habits.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Out of curiosity did you ever have serious problems with MDMA at the ED?

I am convinced if MDMA was legal and regulated ice use would drop off significantly.

And MDMA has few side effects and isnt chemically addictive.

A few, mostly with heart racing or feeling jittery or scared. But there are cases of seizures and hyperthermia as well (seizures from low sodium from over hydration, hyperthermia from autonomic dysregulation) inner city ED people will have more experience (that's where the big parties are)

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Out of curiosity did you ever have serious problems with MDMA at the ED?

I am convinced if MDMA was legal and regulated ice use would drop off significantly.

And MDMA has few side effects and isnt chemically addictive.

The problem is that rolling frequently is pretty bad for you as well.

 

[flashmanvc]

What is likely to come first in people like Jimmy; drug abuse or mental illness?

Serious question. I've got a cousin with a touch of schizophrenia. He goes off the rails occasionally and dabbles with some meth, which inevitably ends with a run in with the police, but never for anything violent which is a relief. But when he's got his act together and stays on his meds he's a genuinely nice guy. I have sympathy for him even when he's acting up.

But I suppose on the other hand we may have a dude here who who's drug abuse causes some schizophrenia like illness. It's hard to find anything like sympathy for someone like that.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is likely to come first in people like Jimmy; drug abuse or mental illness?

Who knows, in this individual case.

Drug use often precipitates illnesses such as schizophrenia. Whether it actually "causes" the illness, well that's constantly being debated. Self-medicating a known mental illness with drugs is likely to be disastrous.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Who knows, in this individual case.

Drug use often precipitates illnesses such as schizophrenia. Whether it actually "causes" the illness, well that's constantly being debated. Self-medicating a known mental illness with drugs is likely to be disastrous.

Exactly....You don't treat psychosis with psychedelics....It's a bit like pouring kero on a fire.

 

[flashmanvc]

Exactly....You don't treat psychosis with psychedelics....It's a bit like pouring kero on a fire.

Don't think it was psychedelics in this case but I get your point. It worries me though that someone who experiences psychosis on drugs would be treated the same as someone who had existing mental issues going psychotic on drugs, if you can understand my poor syntax. Seems like a cop out.

If it comes to light that Jimmy was "normal" when he wasn't on drugs, albeit still a dead set a-hole, then hopefully he is shown no mercy in sentencing.

Ah, pointless anyway. This s**t bird won't see freedom for a long, long time, if ever.