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Barlos Crathwaite

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It'll be funny, when test cricket makes the inevitable necessary changes it needs, to see if the people so opposed to it here get on board once it's obvious that their fears were ignorant.

It really reminds me of real estate agents struggling to sell new build houses off the plans because no one bothers to take the time to visualise the finished product. They want to be able to see it after its built and pay more for it then.
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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Thus robbing them of the chance to beat England, like they did 9 months ago, and to win in England, like they did last time they went.

Great for cricket.

And sorry to break it to you but Sri Lanka drew with NZ at home
They did beat Sri Lanka in a test during that series though. Would be great to see a tiered format in the WTC where the Windies, Ireland, NZ, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Zimbabwe play with the top side getting promoted to the top tier and the lowest ranked side in the top tier getting relegated. EPL style

Those teams don't play well enough overseas to warrant getting a seat at the big boys table and would be better off competing amongst themselves in closer fought contests to draw crowds. Hopefully the ICC could delay the 8 year cycle plan starting in 2023 to give this amendment to the WTC a go for a couple years and tinker with the test format to nut out the best way forward
 
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They did beat Sri Lanka in a test during that series though. Would be great to see a tiered format in the WTC where the Windies, Ireland, NZ, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe play with the top side getting promoted to the top tier and the lowest ranked side in the top tier getting relegated. EPL style
I completely disagree with tiers of Test cricket. All Test nations should be in the WTC proper, and a properly defined pathway (starting with bringing back the Intercontibental Cup in place with set requirements for new nations to reach test level). Test cricket is the peak of the sport, you can't have two levels. Its either Test cricket, which means top level, or it isn't. For me, that's a core cricket philosophy. The annexing of some teams from thew WTC is disgrace that hopefully will be rectified in the next iteration (but I fully expect India and Australia to block any such idea).

Plus, the smaller nations need games against the larger ones (not that some of those nations are getting those games now). West Indies, for example, struggle to make money against New Zealand and Ireland; they can against India and England. The big nations need to suck less out of the game if it is to thrive in more places, and in some cases survive. But trhat won't happen, and without it no amount of tinmkering with the rules will aid the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, West Indies and Sri Lanka remaining Test nations when all the money (and their survival as professional sport) may be in the T20 anti-cricket.
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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I completely disagree with tiers of Test cricket. All Test nations should be in the WTC proper, and a properly defined pathway (starting with bringing back the Intercontibental Cup in place with set requirements for new nations to reach test level). Test cricket is the peak of the sport, you can't have two levels. Its either Test cricket, which means top level, or it isn't. For me, that's a core cricket philosophy. The annexing of some teams from thew WTC is disgrace that hopefully will be rectified in the next iteration (but I fully expect India and Australia to block any such idea).

Plus, the smaller nations need games against the larger ones (not that some of those nations are getting those games now). West Indies, for example, struggle to make money against New Zealand and Ireland; they can against India and England. The big nations need to suck less out of the game if it is to thrive in more places, and in some cases survive. But trhat won't happen, and without it no amount of tinmkering with the rules will aid the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, West Indies and Sri Lanka remaining Test nations when all the money (and their survival as professional sport) may be in the T20 anti-cricket.
You're entitled to your opinion and so am I. Agree to disagree
 
May 5, 2016
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They did beat Sri Lanka in a test during that series though. Would be great to see a tiered format in the WTC where the Windies, Ireland, NZ, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Zimbabwe play with the top side getting promoted to the top tier and the lowest ranked side in the top tier getting relegated. EPL style

Those teams don't play well enough overseas to warrant getting a seat at the big boys table and would be better off competing amongst themselves in closer fought contests to draw crowds. Hopefully the ICC could delay the 8 year cycle plan starting in 2023 to give this amendment to the WTC a go for a couple years and tinker with the test format to nut out the best way forward


I literally posted a thread 3 days ago which sourced an article on cricinfo with a huge, detailed analysis of every side between 2017 and the end of 2019 that literally had NZ ranked 1 for the period if a world test championship were held, up until they got spanked at Perth and Adelaide. They ultimately finished 2nd.

Under your criteria they’d barely get a game against the rich - yes rich, not necessarily good - teams.

It’s not that long ago that Pakistan were the top ranked side in the world.

How are those nations supposed to get good enough to compete with the top sides if they only play them once every blue moon?

How do we get to see Bangladesh draw a series with Australia or take a test off England - both of which they’ve done in the last two years - if they never play them?

How do we get to see Shai Hope hit two tonnes in a test and win the WI a match at headingley if they never play there? Kemar Roach produce a spell of 5-1 to rout England for 77 if they never host them?
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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I literally posted a thread 3 days ago which sourced an article on cricinfo with a huge, detailed analysis of every side between 2017 and the end of 2019 that literally had NZ ranked 1 for the period if a world test championship were held, up until they got spanked at Perth and Adelaide. They ultimately finished 2nd.

Under your criteria they’d barely get a game against the rich - yes rich, not necessarily good - teams.

It’s not that long ago that Pakistan were the top ranked side in the world.

How are those nations supposed to get good enough to compete with the top sides if they only play them once every blue moon?

How do we get to see Bangladesh draw a series with Australia or take a test off England - both of which they’ve done in the last two years - if they never play them?

How do we get to see Shai Hope hit two tonnes in a test and win the WI a match at headingley if they never play there? Kemar Roach produce a spell of 5-1 to rout England for 77 if they never host them?
Could you please take the time to read posts before posting rebuttals?

A tiered system based on promotion relegation gives EVERYBODY the chance to play EVERYBODY else at some stage. So if your Windies are good enough they could easily get into that top grade and play at Headingley again. Nothing stopping that at all.
 
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Could you please take the time to read posts before posting rebuttals?

A tiered system based on promotion relegation gives EVERYBODY the chance to play EVERYBODY else at some stage. So if your Windies are good enough they could easily get into that top grade and play at Headingley again. Nothing stopping that at all.

A tiered system means that at any given time 8 teams WONT be able to play 4 of the others, and having spent a few years ONLY playing other mediocre teams, when they DO get promoted, they will almost always struggle.

And more to the point the system will result generally the same 3 teams permanently in the top tier, as their retention in that tier will be guaranteed provided they usually beat the side that has been promoted.

The two biggest stories from a test cricket purist point of view in 2019 were Sri Lanka winning in SA and WI thumping England.

Yes let’s ensure these things never happen by restricting who can play who at a given time
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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A tiered system means that at any given time 8 teams WONT be able to play 4 of the others, and having spent a few years ONLY playing other mediocre teams, when they DO get promoted, they will almost always struggle.

And more to the point the system will result generally the same 3 teams permanently in the top tier, as their retention in that tier will be guaranteed provided they usually beat the side that has been promoted.

The two biggest stories from a test cricket purist point of view in 2019 were Sri Lanka winning in SA and WI thumping England.

Yes let’s ensure these things never happen by restricting who can play who at a given time
As usual, you are making assumptions based on personal bias. You post subjective opinion, NOT facts and once again you have spectacularly missed the point.

Those two big stories you mention are two examples of atrocious test teams getting up ONCE.

The rest of the time they hardly put up a fight. Now I'm no athlete but I reckon if I kick fifty footballs from one end of the field to the other, at least one would get in the goal.

Those two teams were bound to have the planets align and luck out once as an exception but it certainly isn't the rule.

As for your posts about the same top teams playing, which teams would that be exactly? As we compete overseas nicely but don't have the batsmen of times past, India are always only a tour away from being a rabble overseas and SA could struggle now with the quota targets.

England I would actually have in the second tier right now too.
 
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As usual, you are making assumptions based on personal bias. You post subjective opinion, NOT facts and once again you have spectacularly missed the point.

Those two big stories you mention are two examples of atrocious test teams getting up ONCE.

The rest of the time they hardly put up a fight. Now I'm no athlete but I reckon if I kick fifty footballs from one end of the field to the other, at least one would get in the goal.

Those two teams were bound to have the planets align and luck out once as an exception but it certainly isn't the rule.

As for your posts about the same top teams playing, which teams would that be exactly? As we compete overseas nicely but don't have the batsmen of times past, India are always only a tour away from being a rabble overseas and SA could struggle now with the quota targets.

England I would actually have in the second tier right now too.


Sorry but both teams won back to back tests to win series’

So I guess it was luck that saw the West Indies draw with Sri Lanka and win a test in the UAE on their last tour there as well, almost stealing the series
Somewhere Australia hasn’t won a test in 16 years. Had Darren Bravo not had a brain melt during a massive run chase they’d have won the series.

10 wins, 14 losses and 2 draws. That’s the WI figures for the last 3 years leading up to their most recent test.

Now, prior to belting Pakistan and NZ, which admittedly show that Australia are now a better side than they had been, you know what Australia’s numbers were over THEIR previous 26 tests? 11 wins, 10 losses and 5 draws.

Under your criteria they’d never get the chance to cut their teeth against better sides. Or if they did, they’d do it on a preparation of other mediocre sides, and more than likely get fed when they play the top 3 because they simply aren’t used to that level of competition.

India are only ever one overseas tour from being a rabble?
As long as they’re winning every few time’s they travel it really doesn’t matter because they are unbeatable at home.
If you get in that top 3 you are safe. All you have to do is make sure you beat the 4th team more than they beat you and you’re never going to get knocked out of that top 3.
 
Teams can't even bowl 90 overs now...

In the words of Jonny McEnroe "You can't be serious"

Not going to agree to lose the best part of two sessions. 5 day tests allow pitches to break up, that's what makes test cricket the pinnacle. Go and watch Stokes' innings in the Ashes and come back to me with the "4 days tests would be better"
 

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test cricket has never been really big in the sub continent or the windies. it's been us, the poms, the kiwis and, to an extent, springboks where fans have attended. if it's a real contest in those places they'll get good crowds.

if there's one thing that needs improvement it's the officiating.
 
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test cricket has never been really big in the sub continent or the windies. it's been us, the poms, the kiwis and, to an extent, springboks where fans have attended. if it's a real contest in those places they'll get good crowds.

if there's one thing that needs improvement it's the officiating.

Sorry but it has.
Watch footage of Lara’s 151 at Bridgetown and tell me it was never big in the Windies.
Laxman and Dravid at a packed eden gardens
 

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if there's one thing that needs improvement it's the officiating.

Not having useless hacks on the panel would help! How on earth Joel Wilson managed to get on the elite panel is a joke, he's the worst umpire I've seen
 
While they had credits in the bank, late eta Steve Bucknor and Rudi Koertzen were pretty amazingly s**t

At least those two were good in their prime. Their last few years were terrible granted.

Wilson is as blind as a bat. If it wasn't missing by a foot...it was being given off a massive inside edge..

We better refuse to play if he's standing in a test match.
 

deanc

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Not having useless hacks on the panel would help! How on earth Joel Wilson managed to get on the elite panel is a joke, he's the worst umpire I've seen

I believe following the Joel Wilson debacle the ICC have updated their 'diversity and inclusiveness' policies which longer allow the visually impaired to umpire test cricket...
 
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I'm believe following the Joel Wilson debacle that the ICC have updated their 'diversity and inclusiveness' policies which longer allow the visually impaired to umpire test cricket...

And I still would be betting they would make more right decisions lol
 

big_e

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Tiers will only work if there is relatively rapid turnover of leagues, and if there is income equalisation.
The WTC cycle is currently two years, and if you had parachute payments for teams going down, it could work. Whether I want it to happen is a question I'm still pondering.
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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Sorry but both teams won back to back tests to win series’

So I guess it was luck that saw the West Indies draw with Sri Lanka and win a test in the UAE on their last tour there as well, almost stealing the series
Somewhere Australia hasn’t won a test in 16 years. Had Darren Bravo not had a brain melt during a massive run chase they’d have won the series.

10 wins, 14 losses and 2 draws. That’s the WI figures for the last 3 years leading up to their most recent test.

Now, prior to belting Pakistan and NZ, which admittedly show that Australia are now a better side than they had been, you know what Australia’s numbers were over THEIR previous 26 tests? 11 wins, 10 losses and 5 draws.

Under your criteria they’d never get the chance to cut their teeth against better sides. Or if they did, they’d do it on a preparation of other mediocre sides, and more than likely get fed when they play the top 3 because they simply aren’t used to that level of competition.

India are only ever one overseas tour from being a rabble?
As long as they’re winning every few time’s they travel it really doesn’t matter because they are unbeatable at home.
If you get in that top 3 you are safe. All you have to do is make sure you beat the 4th team more than they beat you and you’re never going to get knocked out of that top 3.
While you clutch at straws admirably. The statistics do not lie. In the last 17 years the Windies have played 52 test series winning 11 of those. The crucial figure here is the amount of series they have won against a top side - 2. Against the worst English touring side for over a decade last year at home and 12 years ago in England by sheer nude luck.

The other 9 have come against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and Afghanistan with one against NZ at home.

This is pretty damning. No way are they in the top tier.
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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Teams can't even bowl 90 overs now...

In the words of Jonny McEnroe "You can't be serious"

Not going to agree to lose the best part of two sessions. 5 day tests allow pitches to break up, that's what makes test cricket the pinnacle. Go and watch Stokes' innings in the Ashes and come back to me with the "4 days tests would be better"
What suggestions do you have to make test cricket great again? You're excellent at criticising everything else, let's see some constructive stuff mate
 
What suggestions do you have to make test cricket great again? You're excellent at criticising everything else, let's see some constructive stuff mate

5 days stay the same.

My only change would be the toss. The opposition gets to choose. Would stop teams creating roads first up which make the toss the deciding factor.

That's it.

That isn't changing the fabric of the sport, and it keeps tests being the pinacle, where pitches break up on the 4th and 5th days.
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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test cricket has never been really big in the sub continent or the windies. it's been us, the poms, the kiwis and, to an extent, springboks where fans have attended. if it's a real contest in those places they'll get good crowds.

if there's one thing that needs improvement it's the officiating.
The subcontinent umpires are the worst
 

Barlos Crathwaite

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5 days stay the same.

My only change would be the toss. The opposition gets to choose. Would stop teams creating roads first up which make the toss the deciding factor.

That's it.

That isn't changing the fabric of the sport, and it keeps tests being the pinacle, where pitches break up on the 4th and 5th days.
That's it? You should write the ICC a letter and let them know it's that simple. Those idiots seem to think it's a bit more involved than that.

What with most cricket nations losing a million dollars per test hosted and dwindling test crowds.
 

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