Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

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PhiloBeddoe

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I see this is an issue that has largely come from the years 2007 through 2011. These were relatively lean years in relation to recruiting top end talent. In 2007 Adelaide recruited Danderfield, 2008 Sloane, 2009 Talia, 2010 Brodie Smith. During that time the only A graders we recruited were Sidebottom and Beams:(. If you want to blame anything about our current situation it is these lean years at the draft table.

In 2007 we traded 14 for Wood which we could have used on Harry Taylor
In 2008 we did trade and picked up Sidebottom and Beams
In 2009 we traded for Jolly and Ball which we could have used on Fyfe and Sam Reid
In 2010 we traded for Kraks and Ceglar which could have got us Jack Darling.

We are suffering the combined effects of a long period in finals contention, a corrupted draft due to GWS and GC, and trading to try to win a flag and trying to stay there. The system is designed for us to fall in the same way as the Bulldogs and Saints have. Geelong have held on longer than most would expect, but they are in decline. The Hawks will follow at some stage in the next few years as well.

The club identified it his problem at the end of 2012 and have taken aggressive action to address the problem. But it is a few years away and we need to be patient. Buckley's ability to coach can only be assessed once he has a better list. MM's current performance shows that it is not the quality and experience of the coach that really matters, it is the quality of the list. The last four years Buckley has largely been coaching the list put together by MM with a short term view to win a flag before he finished.
You can't do this, mate, you just can't. Reason being, it'll just come back to gameplan. Good post.
 

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ksardog

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I see this is an issue that has largely come from the years 2007 through 2011. These were relatively lean years in relation to recruiting top end talent. In 2007 Adelaide recruited Danderfield, 2008 Sloane, 2009 Talia, 2010 Brodie Smith. During that time the only A graders we recruited were Sidebottom and Beams:(. If you want to blame anything about our current situation it is these lean years at the draft table.

In 2007 we traded 14 for Wood which we could have used on Harry Taylor
In 2008 we did not trade and picked up Sidebottom and Beams
In 2009 we traded for Jolly and Ball which we could have used on Fyfe and Sam Reid
In 2010 we traded for Kraks and Ceglar which could have got us Jack Darling.

We are suffering the combined effects of a long period in finals contention, a corrupted draft due to GWS and GC, and trading to try to win a flag and trying to stay there. The system is designed for us to fall in the same way as the Bulldogs and Saints have. Geelong have held on longer than most would expect, but they are in decline. The Hawks will follow at some stage in the next few years as well.

The club identified this problem at the end of 2012 and have taken aggressive action to address the problem. But it is a few years away and we need to be patient. Buckley's ability to coach can only be assessed once he has a better list. MM's current performance shows that it is not the quality and experience of the coach that really matters, it is the quality of the list. The last four years Buckley has largely been coaching the list put together by MM with a short term view to win a flag before he finished.
Its easy to name players we could of got in the draft in hindsight but unless u know how we rated those drafts and what positions we rated those players it means absolutely nothing.

We won a premiership with decisions we made, in particular getting jolly in the ruck (who clearly was the missing piece of the puzzle) could of and probably should of won 2.

We chose to gut the list to compete with GWS and gold coast in the future. We were in a window of success, we looked forward instead making hay when the sun shines and get the optimum out of a successful group.
 

PhiloBeddoe

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Its easy to name players we could of got in the draft in hindsight but unless u know how we rated those drafts and what positions we rated those players it means absolutely nothing.

We won a premiership with decisions we made, in particular getting jolly in the ruck (who clearly was the missing piece of the puzzle) could of and probably should of won 2.

We chose to gut the list to compete with GWS and gold coast in the future. We were in a window of success, we looked forward instead making hay when the sun shines and get the optimum out of a successful group.
Word from those at club spoke about the chances of winning a flag with the list at the time. The answer to the question was no. Did the club say anything about the GWS GC thing? Legit question.
 

ClaytonM

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Its easy to name players we could of got in the draft in hindsight but unless u know how we rated those drafts and what positions we rated those players it means absolutely nothing.

We won a premiership with decisions we made, in particular getting jolly in the ruck (who clearly was the missing piece of the puzzle) could of and probably should of won 2.

We chose to gut the list to compete with GWS and gold coast in the future. We were in a window of success, we looked forward instead making hay when the sun shines and get the optimum out of a successful group.
I would not for one second question the decision to recruit Jolly or Ball. But at the same time I cannot ignore that over the years 2007 to 2010 we only chose not to trade once, and it was only that year that we brought in A graders that had longevity. We are suffering now for Wood, Jolly, Ball, Krak and Ceglar, combined with our extended period success and the corrupted draft. This in my opinion is the greatest contributor to our current performance.
 

ksardog

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I would not for one second question the decision to recruit Jolly or Ball. But at the same time I cannot ignore that over the years 2007 to 2010 we only chose not to trade once, and it was only that year that we brought in A graders that had longevity. We are suffering now for Wood, Jolly, Ball, Krak and Ceglar, combined with our extended period success and the corrupted draft. This in my opinion is the greatest contributor to our current performance.
Agree to disagree
 

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I see this is an issue that has largely come from the years 2007 through 2011. These were relatively lean years in relation to recruiting top end talent. In 2007 Adelaide recruited Danderfield, 2008 Sloane, 2009 Talia, 2010 Brodie Smith. During that time the only A graders we recruited were Sidebottom and Beams:(. If you want to blame anything about our current situation it is these lean years at the draft table.

In 2007 we traded 14 for Wood which we could have used on Harry Taylor
In 2008 we did not trade and picked up Sidebottom and Beams
In 2009 we traded for Jolly and Ball which we could have used on Fyfe and Sam Reid
In 2010 we traded for Kraks and Ceglar which could have got us Jack Darling.

We are suffering the combined effects of a long period in finals contention, a corrupted draft due to GWS and GC, and trading to try to win a flag and trying to stay there. The system is designed for us to fall in the same way as the Bulldogs and Saints have. Geelong have held on longer than most would expect, but they are in decline. The Hawks will follow at some stage in the next few years as well.

The club identified this problem at the end of 2012 and have taken aggressive action to address the problem. But it is a few years away and we need to be patient. Buckley's ability to coach can only be assessed once he has a better list. MM's current performance shows that it is not the quality and experience of the coach that really matters, it is the quality of the list. The last four years Buckley has largely been coaching the list put together by MM with a short term view to win a flag before he finished.
The best post on here by far :)
 

ksardog

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Word from those at club spoke about the chances of winning a flag with the list at the time. The answer to the question was no. Did the club say anything about the GWS GC thing? Legit question.
How can they not think we were close to a flag?? In 2007 if we just had a half decent ruckman we get past geelong and win it. I knew as soon as we got jolly, we could definately win it. It was all we were missing.
 

ClaytonM

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Agree to disagree
I know and find that staggering to be honest. We have a poor list at the moment and it is a result of the years 2007 to 2011. Because it is players in this age group who should be taking us forward but the quality wasn't brought in. How you can't see this staggers me.
 

jasonwilde

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JW see table below which show total attendances and averages in the last column.
Crowd numbers over the last 5 years have reduced 26% from 2010 to 2014 . 16% drop from 12-14 and 11%+ alone in the last full year . No doubt the price of food and drinks have had a major impact . We will bounce back at some stage .

2014 22 1,048,235 47,647
2013 23 1,236,343 53,754
2012 25 1,415,870 56,635
2011 25 1,523,987 60,959
2010 26 1.661,843 63,917
So we dropped off by 5% after a premiership year in a year that we were playing our best season ever?
Doesn't that kill your argument?

I would have thought the draw and introduction of GC abd GWS may have also had a little something to say too.

At any rate, we are one of the highest attending clubs in the world. Even with a few years on the bottom, we'd still have higher numbers than many other clubs.

We are in no danger of playing on a regular basis in half-full stadiums. We will never have to worry about money.

Suggesting Buckley should go because of this is some of the biggest horseshit I have read here for a while. And I'm pretty sure that he personally inspired many hundreds of thousands of supporters to go to the footy himself as a player. WTF else did we have in the 90s?
 

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ksardog

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I know and find that staggering to be honest. We have a poor list at the moment and it is a result of the years 2007 to 2011. Because it is players in this age group who should be taking us forward but the quality wasn't brought in. How you can't see this staggers me.
U gut a side, u make changes that cause discontent. U hav a coach who cant get the best out of his players.
How u cant see that staggers me

As i said, u can hav your opinion, i will hav mine.
 

PieBeast

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If Buckley wasn't coach this year and we had the coach of your choice, where do you think we would/should finish? Just want an assessment on the list and what you would deem acceptable this year. And yes I'm aware that Buckley has played a major part in "building" this current list, however, that is another topic.
Probably just in the eight at best but under Bucks I fail to see how we will finish this high.
Mitigating circumstances or not we just don't seem to be making any progress, quite the opposite and that's the crux of the matter.
And while you're right about this being another topic when people start using the make up of the list in Bucks' defense it becomes very relevant.

FWIW I've mentioned numerous times I don't see the point in sacking him now or even at the end of this year unless we end up bottom four.
Just have a massive issue with the inexplicable contract extension and people using every excuse under the sun to justify the disaster that's unfolded in front of our eyes up to this point.
 

PieBeast

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I see this is an issue that has largely come from the years 2007 through 2011. These were relatively lean years in relation to recruiting top end talent. In 2007 Adelaide recruited Danderfield, 2008 Sloane, 2009 Talia, 2010 Brodie Smith. During that time the only A graders we recruited were Sidebottom and Beams:(. If you want to blame anything about our current situation it is these lean years at the draft table.

In 2007 we traded 14 for Wood which we could have used on Harry Taylor
In 2008 we did not trade and picked up Sidebottom and Beams
In 2009 we traded for Jolly and Ball which we could have used on Fyfe and Sam Reid
In 2010 we traded for Kraks and Ceglar which could have got us Jack Darling.

We are suffering the combined effects of a long period in finals contention, a corrupted draft due to GWS and GC, and trading to try to win a flag and trying to stay there. The system is designed for us to fall in the same way as the Bulldogs and Saints have. Geelong have held on longer than most would expect, but they are in decline. The Hawks will follow at some stage in the next few years as well.

The club identified this problem at the end of 2012 and have taken aggressive action to address the problem. But it is a few years away and we need to be patient. Buckley's ability to coach can only be assessed once he has a better list. MM's current performance shows that it is not the quality and experience of the coach that really matters, it is the quality of the list. The last four years Buckley has largely been coaching the list put together by MM with a short term view to win a flag before he finished.
I'm aware of your stance our list wasn't in a great shape but Beveridge's comments from Friday night posted earlier ITT by me makes a complete mockery of it. And in case you missed it the internal view at the Club at the start of 2010 season was we were two years away from being serious contenders.
 

jasonwilde

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Thats 7 years, whats your point? U look it up
You're the one talking about gutting a premiership list.

It was 6 years from 08 to 14.

Again how many players played in these flags?

My point is that if we have as many premiership players on our list next year as they did in their 14 premiership team than your argument is bollocks.

Is not like they had players leave because they were angry at the coach (Brown anyone?) or chase the dollar elsewhere (Buddy says 'hi').

I bet you won't go all guns blazing at Clarko though. It doesn't suit your agenda.
 

ksardog

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You're the one talking about gutting a premiership list.

It was 6 years from 08 to 14.

Again how many players played in these flags?

My point is that if we have as many premiership players on our list next year as they did in their 14 premiership team than your argument is bollocks.

Is not like they had players leave because they were angry at the coach (Brown anyone?) or chase the dollar elsewhere (Buddy says 'hi').

I bet you won't go all guns blazing at Clarko though. It doesn't suit your agenda.
Im not doing your homework for u. Dont even know what your getting at. Your posts are making about as much sense as your avatars playing ability. NONE
 
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How many from Hawks 08 played in 14?
Six, the answer is six.

The Hawks of 2008 and the 2013/14 were very different sides. I guess you could say there was a bit of a rebuild. They missed the finals in 2009 were pretty average in 2010 and reloaded.
 

PieBeast

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Maybe that's your issue.
Going in early and calling it a 'disaster'.
I'm fully aware that flags aren't that easy to come by especially for us but I've always said it will be a travesty if the '10/11 list only wins one.
We went from having the best home and away season in Club's history with the young list to not making the finals and being the laughing stock in 2 years time. And look miles away from being competitive with the top sides now. I doubt we will be making the finals next year either.
Thanks to the direction we took the likes of Swan, Cloke and possibly even Pendles will not feature in our next successful period, if that's not a disaster I don't know what is.
 

PhiloBeddoe

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Its everything, all well and good trading players etc, but these players had bonds, as most successful sides do, so there is obviously discontent when they see mates moved out.
Perhaps these mates with bonds should have made a pact to make the best of what they thought was a shit situation rather than contribute to it.
Who told Heater to pull his head in?
Reckon any of Daisy's mates begged him to stay to keep the team together?
Anyone tell Dids shut his mouth?
selfish but unselfish = conflicted.
 
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