Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

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Starcevich90

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OK so this is what Buckley needed to do according to you:
Dawes - not put pressure on Dawes to perform, by recruiting Lynch, AND pay him over the odds
Thomas - pay him overs,
Wellingham - ignore his off field behaviour
Beams - insist his father problems are of no concern to the club AND then lose him as a free agent for LESS compensations than we got
Shaw and Harry - agree to let them do as they like, given both were not prepared to committ to changing inorder to stay
Find the Elixir of youth: for LB, Tarrant, Leon,Krakouer, BJ,Ball,Didak, Jolly.

Now do you see how laughable your suggestions are.
What is laughable is you think Beams left because of his father.
 

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PieNSauce

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I wish i could like u, but wayne arnold was such an areshole to kevin. Great show tho.

I just want to let it be known, i dont hate nathan buckley, i was watching him play at port adelaide, hoping , praying that he got to the pies. Loved him as a player, was basically our only shining light in the mid to late 90's. Never hav i said i wanted him sacked during the year either.

I just fear that he is lacking in areas as a coach, and i hav yet to see something to convince me otherwise. Doesnt mean i want our former coach back either, the day he left it was over for him to ever coach collingwood again.

People may say im negative or whatever, but i want this club, MY CLUB to be the best it can be. U may not like my opinion, by all means put me on ignore, but im saying them without any bias and just want the club to succeed and be the best, as we should strive to be.

There, NOW i definately hav to get back to work. Half the days already gone.
For what it's worth, I think we all want the club to be as good as it can be and nobody can say you don't have a right to an opinion. The problem with this thread is that any reasonable discussion on the merits of Buckley as a coach tends to get derailed and buried by people banging on about things that aren't related such as Mick or the succession plan.

For my part I see that in 2012, Bucks together with the club decided that it was time they took a long term approach and cleaned up the culture of the club. To that end, the club later decided that it was completely unrealistic to expect that to be completed in only a few years and extended Bucks' contract. Now I know that a lot of people are disappointed in that decision because they expected more after 2010 but the reality was that it was unsustainable and personally, I applaud the club for having the courage and foresight to take the longer term view. Since then, like you I have not seen enough to know if Bucks is a good coach but I temper that thought with the knowledge that I have neither seen anything to suggest he is not. He has now rebuilt the team with players who appear to be on board. He achieved finals in his first 2 years of senior coaching and in the face of an injury epidemic was forced to play kids last year who were never going to make us look all that flash. I see nothing in that that says he is no good.

As far as the gameplan discussion goes, I have the view that without good execution, any game plan can look disorganised and as I have said earlier, good execution comes with experience and the confidence it brings. Nobody has yet been able to give me good reason to think that in that area Buckley is inept because he simply hasn't had the experienced and confident players to execute.
 

Starcevich90

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OK so this is what Buckley needed to do according to you:
Dawes - not put pressure on Dawes to perform, by recruiting Lynch, AND pay him over the odds
Thomas - pay him overs,
Wellingham - ignore his off field behaviour
Beams - insist his father problems are of no concern to the club AND then lose him as a free agent for LESS compensations than we got
Shaw and Harry - agree to let them do as they like, given both were not prepared to committ to changing inorder to stay
Find the Elixir of youth: for LB, Tarrant, Leon,Krakouer, BJ,Ball,Didak, Jolly.

Now do you see how laughable your suggestions are.
Look, I really don't want to dwell on this, because we've all been over it a million times and should agree to disagree.

In a better environment (and I don't know if it's Buckley incompetence, or MM poisoning or what) you would think we could keep Thomas without paying too far overs, convince Wellingham to pull his head in and stay, have more patience with Dawes, and ditto for Shaw and Harry.

Nothing is ever completely one-sided, so I'm sure players bear blame here, but that's where good man management comes in. The best clubs keep their cores together. For whatever reason we didn't and are looking at a long stretch in the wilderness.
 

PieNSauce

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Look, I really don't want to dwell on this, because we've all been over it a million times and should agree to disagree.

In a better environment (and I don't know if it's Buckley incompetence, or MM poisoning or what) you would think we could keep Thomas without paying too far overs, convince Wellingham to pull his head in and stay, have more patience with Dawes, and ditto for Shaw and Harry.

Nothing is ever completely one-sided, so I'm sure players bear blame here, but that's where good man management comes in. The best clubs keep their cores together. For whatever reason we didn't and are looking at a long stretch in the wilderness.
In fairness, not that many clubs publicly and shamelessly embark on a cultural revolution the way Collingwood has and therein lies a big difference IMO. There will always be players who believe that it is better to go elsewhere where they may not have to deal with such things and that sometimes gets exacerbated by the promise of more money. IMO, we're better off without those types.
 

Starcevich90

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In fairness, not that many clubs publicly and shamelessly embark on a cultural revolution the way Collingwood has and therein lies a big difference IMO. There will always be players who believe that it is better to go elsewhere where they may not have to deal with such things and that sometimes gets exacerbated by the promise of more money. IMO, we're better off without those types.
The worry for me is that the "cultural revolution" may be just spin to buy the club and Buckley more time and patience. I don't think a club can make eight consecutive finals series with a poor culture.

And I think too many people on here are way overrating our young kids, some of whom I admit look OK. Gold Coast, GWS, St Kilda, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs all have a better brigade of kids, IMO. Where does that leave us?
 

PieNSauce

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The worry for me is that the "cultural revolution" may be just spin to buy the club and Buckley more time and patience. I don't think a club can make eight consecutive finals series with a poor culture.

And I think too many people on here are way overrating our young kids, some of whom I admit look OK. Gold Coast, GWS, St Kilda, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs all have a better brigade of kids, IMO. Where does that leave us?
I guess you could conclude that it's a smokescreen but then if I had such doubts about the club that I support then I'm not sure it would get the support that I currently give it. It sounds a bit too much like a conspiracy theory to me.

I think it's pretty difficult to make a full assessment of our youth at this stage because so many of them are yet to debut or played out last season against the background of a club almost completely devoid of available experienced players. The balance was completely unsustainable. Personally, I'm happy to wait until at least the bulk of them have 10 or 15 games under their belts before I start comparing them to players from other clubs.
 

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swoop42

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This was taken from a post over at Nick's by Woftam and I think it raises a few genuine questions about possible flaws within the Buckley game plan and probably tells us why we never look like beating Hawthorn.

What about the problems when we don't have the ball?

Do we have a bad zone that gifts the opposition possession of the footy from one end to the other? Or do our guys not set it up properly?
Because our style to me is totally infuriating to watch.
The ball spends too much time in the other teams hands without us adding any pressure to get it back. I'll give you an example.

Adelaide total marks 126 (119 uncontested) v Pies 59 marks (48 uncontested) Diff = 71 uncontested marks
Uncontested possessions - Adelaide 272 v Pies 190 - Diff = 82 uncontested possessions.

Even from the Brisbane win.
Brisbane total marks 87 (79 uncontested) v Pies 52 marks (40 uncontested) Diff = 39 uncontested marks
Uncontested possessions - Brisbane 216 v Pies 179 - Diff = 37 uncontested possessions.

It is boring as hell watching the other team hit up easy passes while we pretend to be witches hats. How can we score heavily while the ball is in the hands of our opposition for over 60% of game time. I can accept being beaten by a better team & right now Adelaide are a better team. What I can't accept is that there is nothing in the game plan that fills me with hope moving forward regardless of who we recruit.

We won contested possessions on both occasions this season but as far as total disposals go we were -18 disposals against lions & -35 for marks
Against crows we were -74 for disposals & -67 for marks.

This is the same data that was happening last year. In my opinion it is a flawed game plan. Yes our disposal is sub standard, but you must at least try to get it back by standing somewhere near an opponent surely?

Is this a game plan that is similar to what other teams are using & we just suck at implementing it or are we using a bad game plan that allows other teams to exploit possession of the football?
 

Maggie5

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For what it's worth, I think we all want the club to be as good as it can be and nobody can say you don't have a right to an opinion. The problem with this thread is that any reasonable discussion on the merits of Buckley as a coach tends to get derailed and buried by people banging on about things that aren't related such as Mick or the succession plan.

For my part I see that in 2012, Bucks together with the club decided that it was time they took a long term approach and cleaned up the culture of the club. To that end, the club later decided that it was completely unrealistic to expect that to be completed in only a few years and extended Bucks' contract. Now I know that a lot of people are disappointed in that decision because they expected more after 2010 but the reality was that it was unsustainable and personally, I applaud the club for having the courage and foresight to take the longer term view. Since then, like you I have not seen enough to know if Bucks is a good coach but I temper that thought with the knowledge that I have neither seen anything to suggest he is not. He has now rebuilt the team with players who appear to be on board. He achieved finals in his first 2 years of senior coaching and in the face of an injury epidemic was forced to play kids last year who were never going to make us look all that flash. I see nothing in that that says he is no good.

As far as the gameplan discussion goes, I have the view that without good execution, any game plan can look disorganised and as I have said earlier, good execution comes with experience and the confidence it brings. Nobody has yet been able to give me good reason to think that in that area Buckley is inept because he simply hasn't had the experienced and confident players to execute.
Well said, exactly my thinking at this stage. Others opinions are good, just like watching a game, others see what you missed.
 
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No doubt he will be the coach mate. The contract extension will be completed by mid 2016 which should see him through to the end of 2019. So much to look forward to!
I personally doubt it, but only time will tell. Hopefully I'm wrong and we start to make some real progress soon.
 

Maggie5

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No doubt he will be the coach mate. The contract extension will be completed by mid 2016 which should see him through to the end of 2019. So much to look forward to!
I think I may give this thread a miss if Buckley's contract is extended mid 2016 and we aren't on a flag year.:eek:
Will well and truly exceed 111 pages.
 

PieNSauce

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This was taken from a post over at Nick's by Woftam and I think it raises a few genuine questions about possible flaws within the Buckley game plan and probably tells us why we never look like beating Hawthorn.

What about the problems when we don't have the ball?

Do we have a bad zone that gifts the opposition possession of the footy from one end to the other? Or do our guys not set it up properly?
Because our style to me is totally infuriating to watch.
The ball spends too much time in the other teams hands without us adding any pressure to get it back. I'll give you an example.

Adelaide total marks 126 (119 uncontested) v Pies 59 marks (48 uncontested) Diff = 71 uncontested marks
Uncontested possessions - Adelaide 272 v Pies 190 - Diff = 82 uncontested possessions.

Even from the Brisbane win.
Brisbane total marks 87 (79 uncontested) v Pies 52 marks (40 uncontested) Diff = 39 uncontested marks
Uncontested possessions - Brisbane 216 v Pies 179 - Diff = 37 uncontested possessions.

It is boring as hell watching the other team hit up easy passes while we pretend to be witches hats. How can we score heavily while the ball is in the hands of our opposition for over 60% of game time. I can accept being beaten by a better team & right now Adelaide are a better team. What I can't accept is that there is nothing in the game plan that fills me with hope moving forward regardless of who we recruit.

We won contested possessions on both occasions this season but as far as total disposals go we were -18 disposals against lions & -35 for marks
Against crows we were -74 for disposals & -67 for marks.

This is the same data that was happening last year. In my opinion it is a flawed game plan. Yes our disposal is sub standard, but you must at least try to get it back by standing somewhere near an opponent surely?

Is this a game plan that is similar to what other teams are using & we just suck at implementing it or are we using a bad game plan that allows other teams to exploit possession of the football?
It's an interesting analysis and clearly indicates problems but I still go back to my point about inexperienced players being able to implement. Of course mine is only a theory like anyone else's and it could as easily indicate a flawed game plan but I'm not sure that anyone could provide a definitive answer.
 

PieNSauce

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I think I may give this thread a miss if Buckley's contract is extended mid 2016 and we aren't on a flag year.:eek:
Will well and truly exceed 111 pages.
I'd be pretty confident that there will be a full and frank assessment of the team's progress prior to any contract extension and I'd expect that to happen either post-season this year or mid 2016. What I don't expect is that the club will lkook at it like so many BF posters who simply say we're going poorly... sack Bucks.
 

PieNSauce

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Paul Connors says the sickness issue was overplayed in the media.

You are drinking the cool aid if you believe Beams left due to his dad's sickness.
Well if he said anything about Beams in that interview then it must have been very fleeting because the only reference I heard to him was by the interviewer. That said, even if he did say that, it doesn't take anything away from my contention that the club is better off to be rid of players who don't want to be there. Beams included.
 
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