Mega Thread The 2016 Buckley Coaching Discussion

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jmac70

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Yep. It is very much still possible.

There are 19 rounds of football left. It is a long season, and we are only 3 rounds in. (We may have fallen flat on our face at the first hurdle... but this is a steeplechase, not a 110m sprint... to stay with the hurdles analogy)

We would need at least 10 (most likely 11) wins to make it.
That's not a particularly more difficult task than winning 11, or 12, out of 22.

Our results and our form has been shit, but our actually W-L record is not really a problem at this stage. I think most would've tipped us to be 1-2 at this stage given our opposition - just disappointing that we lost comfortably to a team we should of beat, and only just got over the line against a team that is struggling just as much as us.

Obviously we have to turn it around, and we have to do so quickly... but couldn't really have asked for a much better schedule to be heading into at a time like now. The next couple of months is the period the team MUST turn this around, and that starts this weekend.

By Round 8 we may well be 5-3. (I would tip at least 4-4, and I very, very much doubt it will be less than 3-5... if it is then Bucks could very well be gone). Get to that point, and suddenly anything can happen, and we should at least be in a position to be competing for the 8.
Lose to Melbourne and I reckon the season is officially over.
 

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ksardog

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I would but rehashing events that occured 5 years ago in order to validate points now, seems kind of pointless.
Theres your first problem, was over 15 years ago when they came together and the club turned its fortunes around.
So u obviously know nothing , so i wont expect anything from u, its better that way.
 

Saintly Viewed

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It wasn't clowning around there are 2 definitive groups.. the doubters and believers.

Apologies if it came off that way.
I was being mischievous back :eek:
I'm not into believing nor doubting if I can put that way.
I'm more than happy for Nathan to go till the end 2017, that his contract I think.

I just am not into panicking, because it never ever works.
At the seasons end if it's deplorable then the powers to be can make an assessment, and I have a feeling Nathan would jump anyway if it came to an inevitable "meeting" with the Board.

In all the years of watching footy, I have never ever seen panic work to benefit anyone.
I'm also an undisputed anti mid season sacking of coaches.
New guy comes in, sugar hit, nothing much else happens.
Mick Erwin was officially a Collingwood coach, but his name on our list just looks wrong. Tom Hafey could have finished the year, but that's the past.

When Tony Shaw was appointed faith, I had my doubts, to me he was a try hard. But I never argued for his demise, I let football nature take its inevitable course. I supported him, not blindly, but that's who was there, no point whining about it. But that's me.

To be absolutely clear. Whether our coach is a club legend r not, whether they played for or not, is irrelevant to me. I just want them to be our coach and able to do the role.

The reason I see Nathan as a fine coach, and don't doubt him, and "believe" we are on the right track is he brings certain elements to the role. He has natural authority. He looks like and is the boss.
He prepares and has an incredible work ethic (for football and likely everything else.)
And yes he is a wonderful communicator. No, it's not everything but it is something that matters for any coach.

He has been a student of the game for decades. I just don't buy he doesn't get the game, or understand football and on BigFooty somehow lots of undiscovered football tacticians easy and have a better knowledge of the games.
It's inconceivable he doesn't get it, and isn't aware of the problems.

But in my BigFooty time I have long talked about players earning games etc. to me the players have to be good enough, and do the hard stuff. They win or lose the game, ultimately.
The coach plays a role. But you must have the cattle.

I bemoan we have an up and coming group but they are not there yet.
And we don't have enough elite to the elite things.

Scott, Swan, Adam our our elite or close to it. Swan is a massive massive massive loss.
I have to admit I got it WRONG! Cloke who should be one of our close to elite, a big monster forward , looks in sad decline. Hard to get my head around it but he's just gone down a few pegs. I still support him to come back to his better days. But that's killing us.
Oh, Steele is an elite runner, and very good player. Not elite but very good. He's been a loss because he's got Himself suspended again. But he should really help again. So too Varcoe with his gusto.

So let's look at last years revelations. Crisp, Adams, sorry both need to lift especially Crisp.

Now our young group: Grundy, Langdon, Elliot, Fasolo, Scharenberg (injured), Maynard, Moore, Aish, De Goey etc for some of these, they are yet to arrive.

It's never that simple. Maybe getting the ball and using it better would heal some angst.

I just don't buy into latest flavour of the month, whoever it is eg Beveridge, Bolton whoever.
They may be terrific but there is no magic potion except hard work, more hard work, an element of luck, and then more hard work.

I think Nathan can do it, but his fate is in the players hands.
We will see what happens.
Excuse me if I stick hard and support my team, without panic. That's just me.
 

The Royal Sampler

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The evidence is overwhelming that the succession plan has failed. There would need to be a complete turn around for that to change.
There is a perfectly reasonable argument that without the succession plan Mick Malthouse would never have rolled the dice and gotten Darren Jolly, and we wouldn't even have won the 2010 premiership.
 

Saintly Viewed

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Right now we are one of the teams in contention for the spoon.
We beat Richmond we not winning the spoon.
It will be tough to get the spoon off Essendon.
Same with Carlton, Brisbane.
At worst we could go 15 or 12 like past years.
It's inconceivable we have some really good or OK games. Team could get on a roll. Win here or there.
We win say 3 of next 5, there's 4 - 4 right there middle of the road. Win 4 it's 5 - 3 spoon is gone sorry
 

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Chameleon75

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Just throwing this question out there...

Does anybody in this board actually think Bucks will turn this around and make the finals?

I think he has no chance.
not finals, but I'm expecting him to do what most coaches do under pressure, turn it back on the players, structure up 1 on 1 and have the players prove they deserve a spot.

im expecting that we will grind out enough wins to justify him lining up next year thus sparing the board the uncomfortable situation of extending and sacking the coach in the same year.
 

didaksrightfoot

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Genuine question to the believers..

How long do you give Bucks? How many seasons before you say.. that's enough!?

And what are your expectations this year and next?
This is the way I see it - Buck's rebuild only really started at the end of 2013. What I am looking at now, is the growth of the playing since that time and how that transition is going. Really it has only been Buck's group for 2 years... prior to that there was too many other things going on, and the club was trying (but failed) to stay successful without rebuilding.

Over the last 2 years, there have been some things that I have seen as pretty positive, and some things that have been pretty negative.

I was pretty content with most of our performances last year. The team under Bucks, and using what I considered to be Buck's philosophies... showed that when executing its game plan we could compete with the absolute best - and really, we were only executing defensively, but were poor offensively. There were a few things that stopped us from getting over the top in those tight games, some of which can be blamed on coaching, many of which on the players involved - and some you'd hope should have improved purely with a bit more maturity and bringing in a couple of better disposers of the footy. (And after the win over Richmond I thought they had).

But the second half of last year, showed that when the players aren't able to put the plan together, either because of form/fitness/effort, we can be made to look very, very average... and we didn't have a plan B. (or an attacking style to give us those easier wins without having to battle hard constantly).

My impression of our NAB challenge games was that was what Bucks had worked on... we had a much more flowing game, and guys were encouraged to take the game on, and we looked much better for it. In NAB games we were also able to do that without sacrificing the contested footy.

Clearly - whatever has happened in the last 3 weeks has failed. Only those in the club truly know what has happened. Has this been a continuation of the previous gameplan and our playing group has just been found out. Has this been Bucks trying a completely new gameplan (in a hope to avoid the fadeouts of the last 2 years) and it has abysmally backfired. Did the players get ahead of themselves and just expect to be improving as a group without putting the hard work in? Or did the drugs story really have a massive emotional affect on a group, and is there now a complete distrust between different players, or between the players and the coaches/vice-versa? Those inside the walls of the club have to seriously look at themselves, discover what the problems have been and quickly ratify the situation and turn things around on field.
---

Now to actually answer your questions:

My expectations before this year was that we would end up somewhere in the 5-10/12 range. I never expected us to be top 4, and also didn't think we were ever garaunteed to be top 8. I would not have been too disappointed if we missed the 8, as long as we were still in contention, and had shown improvement as a group. (The 11-12 range, if more than a win or 2 off 8th place, would've been disappointing. Anything below that is clearly a failure).

My standard for the group this year still remains the same... and I still have hope it will be achieved (as long as it turns around quickly). You would suggest the higher end of that range is not gonna happen, but with 19 rounds still left, no reason we can't still make the 8, or at least be around that level.

How long do I give Bucks?
Prior to this season - I was happy to give him the long-term benefit of the doubt, given that I don't expect us to be a contender yet, while also saying that if it was clear that we were falling that a decision might have to be made sooner. I have always said I am not completely sold on Bucks as a coach, but have seen enough to have hope for our direction... and in general, you are only ever really sold on a coach when the actually take you to a flag.

Right now - I give him, and the club, the next 5 weeks... probably until the bye. If we go 3-2, or 4-1, over the next 5, and suddenly all this pressure goes off, and we can step back to just looking at the long-term picture. If this current form continues, or if we have a 1st half of 2016 that is equivalent to the 2nd halves of 2014 and 2015, then I would expect very serious questions to be asked throughout that time, and probably for Bucks to be gone sometime before or around the bye. (if we have a replacement in mind)
 
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ksardog

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There is a perfectly reasonable argument that without the succession plan Mick Malthouse would never have rolled the dice and gotten Darren Jolly, and we wouldn't even have won the 2010 premiership.
Huh?
U dont think the 2007 prelim loss wouldnt hav made him get a senior ruck. U can only get whats available, just luck that Jolly wanted to return home.

Its easy to say get this player, thats what we need. Its not like its the 80's where u can get the cheque book out, and we saw how that ended. Almost put our club to the wall.
 
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Theres your first problem, was over 15 years ago when they came together and the club turned its fortunes around.
So u obviously know nothing , so i wont expect anything from u, its better that way.
I think you may have just provided an actual fact in there but I can't be sure because you didn't write "Fact" at the end
 

didaksrightfoot

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Huh?
U dont think the 2007 prelim loss wouldnt hav made him get a senior ruck. U can only get whats available, just luck that Jolly wanted to return home.

Its easy to say get this player, thats what we need. Its not like its the 80's where u can get the cheque book out, and we saw how that ended. Almost put our club to the wall.
I think something happened at the end of 2009 for Mick to change his usual recruiting policy and go after both Jolly and Ball.

I really can't think of the previous really top level recruit we chased after prior to that. (bar Judd). I am very much in the camp that the time limit on his coaching career is what made Mick finally pull that trigger.
 

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