Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[jackcass]

Impending decay of the youngest list to win the flag in more than 20 years that all of a sudden resembled walking wounded as soon as Buckley applied his magic touch?
Yeah, that would have made for an interesting question.

It's been done to death. Happy for you to have your opinion, I'll stick to the reality.

 

[Vicky Park]

Disagree. Irrespective of whether we change coach at the end of this season I think we're close to turning it around on field. The risk the club runs in changing coach is that there are actually a number of players who came to the club in part because Bucks was coach, and the majority of the squad appear behind him, we risk 2012 style player unrest which could be detrimental to 2018 performance. I'll watch with interest but as I say, I think if we can attract a KPF in the off-season we'll bounce very quickly.

I'm not sure if you disagree with the bit about not changing Bucks, or the bit about change needed structurally. I very much hope you are right about bouncing quickly, and it may be under Bucks. But I am convinced the club needs structural change, which may or may not involve Bucks. It should start with Eddie and Pert, who drive our vision and its implementation. Walsh I hope will stay.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

As for comments from Trigg saying he would be safe at any other club. That's Rubbish. I can't remember a coach of any club keeping his job after so many years of poor results.

Brad Scott 7 years
Damien Hardwick 7 years
Gary Ayres 9 years
Neal Daniher 9 years

And that is without even giving it too much thought

 

[Scribe26]

McKenna and Leppitch while being equally inept at coaching as Buckley wouldn't turn the noses of the core senior players out of joint.
McCartney is widely acknowledged as laying a foundation of a flag with his tough love approach.
And none of them had as good of a list to work with as Buckley.
The rest of your tripe isn't even worth refuting.

Impending decay of the youngest list to win the flag in more than 20 years that all of a sudden resembled walking wounded as soon as Buckley applied his magic touch?
Yeah, that would have made for an interesting question.

I guess we differ on a couple of things...

Like, taking things we think may have happened in an alternative universe, then presenting them as fact.

All opinion, nonsense hypotheticals and speculation. Nothing more.

Which was the point when I had a go at your original question to Trigg. How would he and anyone else answer your question?

What do you hope to achieve, apart from having a sook? Why ask questions that can't possibly be answered, unless you're either Rick or Morty and capable of inter-dimensional travel?

 

[jackcass]

As Collingwood supporters we have mastered the art of romanticising and remodelling history to suit ourselves.
Has anyone really done an in depth review of the 2011 list and looked at how those that departed have performed in the subsequent years ?
I just think of the rapid decline of Dawes, Jolly, Ball, Toovey, Caff, Nathan Brown, Thomas and H. There are others that have departed and gone ok but other than Heater and, to an injury riddled extent, Beams who has improved ?
We keep talking of a list that was primed for greatness maybe our zenith of that list was 10/11 and it was always going to decline. Decisions since should be questioned but lets not pretend we had the list of a Hawthorn like dynasty.

The work has been done, people just choose to ignore it.

Even I did an abbreviated version a couple of years ago when all this "dynasty lost" sooking started. Looked at every player at the club in 2010, what happened to them beyond 2010. Even looked at the drafting leading into 2010 and post 2010. I've seen others have analysed the cyclical nature of footy teams ups and downs.

Happy for people to deny the reality if that's what rocks their boats. Alternatively, they can go back and have a review themselves rather than just trot out the exceedingly lazy "youngest list since the Hawks" line as though it actually means anything or entitles something.

 

[PieBeast]

It's been done to death. Happy for you to have your opinion, I'll stick to the reality.

The only reality here is the unexpected and rapid downward spiral Buckley took our Club on, the rest is just myriad of sugarcoating the shit excuses.

 

[No SPIN]

The work has been done, people just choose to ignore it.

Even I did an abbreviated version a couple of years ago when all this "dynasty lost" sooking started. Looked at every player at the club in 2010, what happened to them beyond 2010. Even looked at the drafting leading into 2010 and post 2010. I've seen others have analysed the cyclic nature of footy teams ups and downs.

Happy for people to deny the reality if that's what rocks their boats. Alternatively, they can go back and have a review themselves rather than just trot out the exceedingly lazy "youngest list since the Hawks" line as though it actually means anything or entitles something.

If only DIDS, JOLLY. BALL, BJ, TAZZ, KRAKOUER, LBrown etc had been 3 years younger we may well have had a dynasty - so you are completely correct its a myth.

 

[jackcass]

The only reality here is the unexpected and rapid downward spiral Buckley took our Club on, the rest is just myriad of sugarcoating the shit excuses.

Good on you.

 

[jdpie]

The only reality here is the unexpected and rapid downward spiral Buckley took our Club on, the rest is just myriad of sugarcoating the shit excuses.

Bucks may be part of a triad of participants in that journey but definitely not the sole perpetrator.

 

[CFC2010]

Hi guys,
Please don't shoot the messenger, but I just thought I would share a snippet of information I heard from Carlton CEO / former Crows CEO Steven Trigg.
He said informally at a function that only Collingwood would be having the discussion about Buck's future at this stage, and that at any other club his job would be safe. His words were (more or less): "Who else could Collingwood get that would do a better job with the team than Nathan Buckley?"
Others including Crows CEO Andrew Fagan concurred.

Make of that what you will, I just thought it was an interesting perspective.

The jungle drums are getting louder Kilmo.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ThePheonix]

Brad Scott 7 years
Damien Hardwick 7 years
Gary Ayres 9 years
Neal Daniher 9 years

And that is without even giving it too much thought

Buckleys coaching record is that of consistent decline. every year is worse than the year before. None of the coaches you mentioned have such a record.

 

[PieBeast]

I guess we differ on a couple of things...

Like, taking things we think may have happened in an alternative universe, then presenting them as fact.

All opinion, nonsense hypotheticals and speculation. Nothing more.

Which was the point when I had a go at your original question to Trigg. How would he and anyone else answer your question?

What do you hope to achieve, apart from having a sook? Why ask questions that can't possibly be answered, unless you're either Rick or Morty and capable of inter-dimensional travel?

And yet you've bothered to answer and it also didn't occur to you Trigg saying no one will do a better job than Buckley has as much weight as me asking who could have done worse

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Buckleys coaching record is that of consistent decline. every year if worse than the year before. None of the coaches you mentioned have such a record.

Yep, got it, lets keep changing the criteria of the question until the only answer can be, Buckley can't coach

 

[jackcass]

If only DIDS, JOLLY. BALL, BJ, TAZZ, KRAKOUER, LBrown etc had been 3 years younger we may well have had a dynasty - so you are completely correct its a myth.

Jolly and Ball were the 2 critical ones. By 2012 Jolly was lucky to jump over a jam tin and Ball couldn't run out of sight on the darkest of nights. BJ's shoulder was ruined, Dids was never the same beyond the pec injury, Leroy retired at 29 because his body was cooked, Brown, Ball, Krak all had season ending ACL's, we lost Fraser, Medhurst, Presti et al after 2010 which decimated our depth... It just goes on and on.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Hi guys,

Please don't shoot the messenger, but I just thought I would share a snippet of information I heard from Carlton CEO / former Crows CEO Steven Trigg.

He said informally at a function that only Collingwood would be having the discussion about Buck's future at this stage, and that at any other club his job would be safe. His words were (more or less): "Who else could Collingwood get that would do a better job with the team than Nathan Buckley?"
Others including Crows CEO Andrew Fagan concurred.

Make of that what you will, I just thought it was an interesting perspective.

Informal function in terms of some CEOs and not others?
That aside, Trigg and those concurring may have assessed our list etc and come to the conclusion that a coaching change is pointless. Making shit up because I have no idea what he based those comments on.

 

[Scribe26]

The only reality here is the unexpected and rapid downward spiral Buckley took our Club on, the rest is just myriad of sugarcoating the shit excuses.

I guess we all have different realities?

 

[Anzacday]

I was out last night and someone mentioned Bucks being part of a succession plan.
Anyone know what that's about?

 

[PieBeast]

Bucks may be part of a triad of participants in that journey but definitely not the sole perpetrator.

Never said he was, Ed has a lot more to answer for the mess we find ourselves in.

Love this from Titus O'Reiley

The Nathan Buckley era seems to be over. While sad, we opposition fans probably got two more years of it than we could have ever of hoped for. Any other coach who inherited a good side and drove them south would have been gone long ago.

Imagine if Bucks hadn’t been a club legend, a good media performer and regarded as a nice person? He would have been Collingwood’s, Mark Neeld.

There are still some that think he is a good coach, like Japanese soldiers, stuck on an island, unaware the war is already over.

What is true is this mess isn’t all of Buckley’s making. From the decision to replace Malthouse, to the list management ever since this has been a collective stuff up but will Buckley be the only one who pays for it?

 

[jackcass]

I'm not sure if you disagree with the bit about not changing Bucks, or the bit about change needed structurally. I very much hope you are right about bouncing quickly, and it may be under Bucks. But I am convinced the club needs structural change, which may or may not involve Bucks. It should start with Eddie and Pert, who drive our vision and its implementation. Walsh I hope will stay.

Sorry, my bad. Disagree we're in such a malaise. Think it'll turn quickly irrespective of who coaches in 2018.

 

[PieBeast]

I guess we all have different realities?

I'm guided by the one that shows our methodical descent down the ladder in the last 6 years and the succession plan turning out to be the opposite of what was hoped for, you're welcome to help yourself to the other realities.

 

[Scribe26]

Jolly and Ball were the 2 critical ones. By 2012 Jolly was lucky to jump over a jam tin and Ball couldn't run out of sight on the darkest of nights. BJ's shoulder was ruined, Dids was never the same beyond the pec injury, Leroy retired at 29 because his body was cooked, Brown, Ball, Krak all had season ending ACL's, we lost Fraser, Medhurst, Presti et al after 2010 which decimated our depth... It just goes on and on.

Don't forget Thomas.

In 2011 Dale Thomas was a top 5 player in the comp, arguably our best player in a team that featured Swan/Pendlebury/Cloke and one of the key cogs of our midfield dynamic and 2010/2011 success.

12 months later he was cooked. 12 months after that, ran off to Carlton, who overpaid him and haven't seen any return on that investment since.

 

[PieBeast]

I was out last night and someone mentioned Bucks being part of a succession plan.
Anyone know what that's about?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...lace-buckley-with-rhyce-shaw-in-2020.1169114/

 

[10571z]

Brad Scott 7 years
Damien Hardwick 7 years
Gary Ayres 9 years
Neal Daniher 9 years

And that is without even giving it too much thought

Brad Scott has coached north to 2 prelims, Hardwick finals. Buckley has done nothing but decline.

 

[Scribe26]

I'm guided by the one that shows our methodical descent down the ladder in the last 6 years and the succession plan turning out to be the opposite of what was hoped for, you're welcome to help yourself to the other realities.

Yep. Each to their own.

I'm guided by the one where there are variables and events that happen in football, sport and life in general that aren't all one person's fault - things that can't be planned or accounted for.

 

[ThePheonix]

Yep, got it, lets keep changing the criteria of the question until the only answer can be, Buckley can't coach

Not changing the criteria, it is about understanding the sort of trajectory a good or great coach has in their career. From observing previous coaches, they tend to start off improving, with an upward trend, then followed by a downward trend, anywhere between couple to a few years (3 years seems the most) and finally same sort of success.

From the bunch of coaches you mentioned, Damien Hadwick has had such a direction, though I have yet to have come across any coach with a constant downward trend that has turned into a great coach. Buckley would probably be the first, if he does turn out to be a great coach.

Simply put, the odds are stacked against him.