Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

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Vicky Park

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And your opinion of Balme? Was good at Geelong, didn't go too bad last time with us and stellar revival at Richmond so far.

Not sold on return of Rocket based on track record at Swans, Dogs and now Suns. I hear a lot of Dogs supporters having not much confidence in Rocket gelling a playing group together very well. Much like how we are talking about Bucks as our senior coach.

Wouldn't mind Harley either.
Re Rocket, it was more that I was aligning his time with us, with better perfomances, including by the coach, and with team selection. This was also during a horror period of injuries. But I did concede other factors were probably at play.

Cant see Balme going around a third time with the Pies. What about Maxy - when will the time be right for him to ride in on a white horse? I'd love him back at the club in any capacity, other than senior coach (don't want him chewed up and discarded). He's smart, so probably needs more time away from us, before he can make a real difference on returning.
 

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Vicky Park

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In: Smith, Varcoe, Reid.

It seems to me we've hit that where there is a conflict of interests between coach's immediate future and the medium/long term future of football club.
I've been thinking the same. There is a massive focus on Bucks ATM, but he is just one of many stakeholders with 'skin' in this. The club, the board, the players, the coach, the fans, even the sponsors - are all heavily invested in the success of the club. To look at it brutally, Nathan Buckley and his future is only one consideration, and one decision (albeit a big one) to be made.
 

ant22

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With all the uncertainty around Bucks its having a detrimental impact on the development of the young players due to moves made at the selection table.

Let's compare the situation our club is in to a club like Melbourne last year. Melbourne had a clear direction and while they only showed small improvements year to year in the Roos years, because there was no uncertainty in terms of who was coaching they were able to select for the future. Roos never selected to save his job. Speak to anyone who watched Casey and they will tell you Dunn was in the dees best 22 but instead they were finding out who could play and who couldn't. That way players like Oscar McDonald and others were getting game time which has held them in good stead this year.

I don't blame Bucks for picking what he thinks is the best 22 to win. He is just doing what most would in his position. But in my opinion it's not what is best for the club.

We have 3rd and 4th year players we have invested heavily in who are constantly in and out of the side and I have no idea if they are going to make it. We need to find out if they can play and they only way to do this is to give these blokes regular game time in the ones. Scharenberg is rotting away in the 2s. He dominates at that level. His game will not develop any more at vfl. I want to know if Aish is up to it. Ramsey has struggled but 1 week in 1 week out does nothing for his confidence. He looks like a cricketer who is hitting them well in the nets but knows he is only 1 bad shot from being dropped. Wills has been injured but surely this we the week to bring him back in.

Guys like Dunn(30) Goldsack(30) Varcoe (29) Greenwood (28) might be in our best 22 but are they getting games at the expense of developing younger players? I personally think they are. Those guys are not part of our future so lets find out who is.

I personally think the end of last year was time to appoint a new coach. I believe a new coach would be giving more opportunities to the likes of Scharenberg and co. Can't change the past but it would be nice to have one of the clubs leaders be bold enough to make a decision for our future.

If we don't make a decision soon then we will see some of these young blokes walk and we won't even know if they are up to it because we have a coach who is trying to coach for his future(as I said not his fault) instead of the clubs future.
 

Scodog10

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Help My Club

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Whilst there are many out there who don't believe or accept this, the primary reason for the list overhaul ahead of time, was the inability of Buckley to man manage this diverse group of individuals. Plain and simple. We may recall that a number of these players played with Buckley in his playing days. Nuff said. The players certainly didn't ask for a change of senior coach close to the zenith of their collective powers. That was insane.
 
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The "2010-11 team was young and it should have been the start of a dynasty" theory was flawed from the start.

A quality list analysis will tell you that the younger players coming through in that period were not nearly as good as they were made out to be at the time, and the retirement of the older players meant there was too much reliance on the genuine quality players on the list who were in the "sweet spot" in terms of age bracket.

Blair Macccaffer N Brown Dawes Wellingham Toovey Goldsack .......right place right time but not great "dynasty" players. Plus Brown and Caff had injury woes.

Reid Thomas - injury (luckily Thomas traded his injury troubles to Carlton)
Lumumba - where do you start.

Maxwell Didak Jolly Ball L Brown Krakouer Tarrant Johnson Davis - at or approaching the end. Plus Ball injured his knee.

Leaving a core list of Sidebottom Pendlebury Beams Swan Cloke and Shaw. Swan retired and we held on to Cloke as long as we could so its really only the exits of Beams and Shaw that are debateable. And both those yielded reasonably good trades.

The rest of the list turnover was totally understandable inevitable and on the whole correct (the exits anyway.....recruiting a seperate question) . Regardless of who the coach might have been. It was going to happen anyway. Arguably under Malthouse there would have been less turnover (he might have kepT Lumumba Wellingham Dawes and Thomas) and the club might have been left in a bigger mess.

Buckleys problem wasnt entering into the rebuild.. it was doing it without success. The next month will determine his career but hes on the ropes now. 2017 has been a successful season injury wise and the list has now matured enough that inexperience or injury is no longer an excuse.
 
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PhiloBeddoe

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Whilst there are many out there who don't believe or accept this, the primary reason for the list overhaul ahead of time, was the inability of Buckley to man manage this diverse group of individuals. Plain and simple. We may recall that a number of these players played with Buckley in his playing days. Nuff said. The players certainly didn't ask for a change of senior coach close to the zenith of their collective powers. That was insane.
And what many others won't accept is that the players had a hand in it as well. The cause/s of a breakdown in a relationship is or are rarely plain and simple.
Dig far enough and the variables at play will resemble the pit work of current NBN contractors.
 

Jonno94

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PhiloBeddoe

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I'm convinced!
/ End thread
The problem with tweets is that there's not really the scope to delve into an issue in depth. That's unless you're glutton for punishment. Having a chat to him in person may not change anyone's mind but would definitely challenge their suggested reasons for the club's demise on the field.
 
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The problem with tweets is that there's not really the scope to delve into an issue in depth. That's unless you're glutton for punishment. Having a chat to him in person may not change anyone's mind but would definitely challenge their suggested reasons for the club's demise on the field.
You sound like you've had that chat. What'd he say?.
Tweets are for twits who think people care about their random vacuuous thoughts. Don't get me started on the people who then quote and discuss them as if they are a serious topical news item.
 
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The problem with tweets is that there's not really the scope to delve into an issue in depth. That's unless you're glutton for punishment. Having a chat to him in person may not change anyone's mind but would definitely challenge their suggested reasons for the club's demise on the field.
I have chatted with him as have other Collingwood members. Fantastic person. Great leader. We have differences of opinions as others have. I don't think any of that changes the way the club has performed since he has taken over. Often there have mitigating circumstances such as the spate of injuries and bad press, but the undeniable is the slow decline in performance each year since he has taken over.
 

jackcass

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Understanding yes but planning no, sure the well was dry last year but IMO we would've been better keeping the warchest instead of wells and mayne. Those 2 look like a mistake that the club won't admit
I don't think any level of planning would have allowed for the players lost last season. I doubt we would have so heavily committed our 2016 draft potential in 2015 if it was known or predicted we'd lose Cloke, Brown, Marsh, Witts, and to a lesser extent Frost and Gault. I doubt we would have focused so heavily on mids if we knew we'd lose all those KPP types. I doubt we would have chased Aish, WHE and Treloar if Scharenberg and Freeman were now 50+ games. I doubt we would have grabbed Wells if Swan hadn't have sustained a career ending injury. I doubt we'd have chased Mayne if Patty K had have been able to commit to footy and realise the potential he had. Shit just sometimes happens that you can't plan for and you need to try and make the best of the situation. I didn't want Mayne or Wells or Aish or any number of players we've recruited over time but you can understand the reasons for getting them.

Clubs have very limited capacity to build a substantial warchest these days with the 95% minimum TPP spend. Those that do generally have 1 or more highly payed player retiring or moving.
 

HeathComeBack

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7692 replies and i still haven't seen any positive reasons why Buckley should stay. Every single defence is he hasn't been given a chance or he has had bad luck or "most people still want him there". I would like to see someone actually build a defence of Buckley that is positive, not defending what he hasn't done yet and why.
 

HFF

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7692 replies and i still haven't seen any positive reasons why Buckley should stay. Every single defence is he hasn't been given a chance or he has had bad luck or "most people still want him there". I would like to see someone actually build a defence of Buckley that is positive, not defending what he hasn't done yet and why.
It's because they can't let their "messiah" like feelings of the man go when they have to judge and assess him objectively.

They're all still caught up in the name he has and reputation he built as a player for this football club.

They don't realise he actually isn't that man anymore- he is now a coach- who has had more than enough time and resources to do whatever he wanted to do and he has failed miserably.
 

Scribe26

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7692 replies and i still haven't seen any positive reasons why Buckley should stay. Every single defence is he hasn't been given a chance or he has had bad luck or "most people still want him there". I would like to see someone actually build a defence of Buckley that is positive, not defending what he hasn't done yet and why.
Are you sure you read all 7692 replies?
 

Anzacday

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You cant count a post you havent made yet. As you pressed 7696 before the "post reply" button, you were incorrect. It was 7695 at that instant. Its a timing thing.

Suggest you use your mod powers and delete a post to make yours correct. Not mine though, mine are too important.
Have another look Tim - yours is 7695 and mine is 7696.
The mistake is yours as you forgot to allow for your own post.
No mod powers/deletion required.:)
 
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Have another look Tim - yours is 7695 and mine is 7696.
The mistake is yours as you forgot to allow for your own post.
No mod powers/deletion required.:)
You can't count for your own post because it hadn't been made yet! You were predicting you were going to make it! Then you pressed post reply to make your prediction come true.
 

Baltimore Jack

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7692 replies and i still haven't seen any positive reasons why Buckley should stay. Every single defence is he hasn't been given a chance or he has had bad luck or "most people still want him there". I would like to see someone actually build a defence of Buckley that is positive, not defending what he hasn't done yet and why.
Then read them again, and this time do it properly
 
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