The 2019 Jub Jub Memorial Supercars thread

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Klyntonius

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They are visually unappealing compared to the sedans (apart from the Audi RS and arguably the Impreza, depending on which angle you look at it from) in a sport which relies greatly on visual appeal to draw people in beyond, as you mentioned earlier, the niche car enthusiast.
Given the Mustang is the visual equivalent of the original Cristiano Ronaldo tribute bust, I think this is a false statement. The Commodore is nice but unremarkable and the Nissan is a ghost car - no one ever sees it.
The Honda, Subi, Audi and Astra all look at least as good as anything in Supercars to my eyes, maybe the Renault too. The Alpha and Hyundai are a bit boring but that may be more to do with livery.



But you go ask any casual racing fan on the streets which of the two they'd rather watch in a touring car championship.
TCR fits the reality of modern cars far more than Supercars does, but Supercars is better to watch. How do you combine those to get a new, popular ATCC?
Show the casual fan (ie. not already invested/rusted on fan) the very best 10 laps/3 races, whatever, from this year and I think you'll find these statements to be false also.

I think in terms of popularity, it's all about time. V8s, whilst largely irrelevant now outside of the Mustang, is still the currently ingrained preference. But clearly the emerging generation is smaller car racing, there will be a transition and fans will move on from the past, sooner or later.
 

imadodgyumpire

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You know what would've been good?

Create a car racing version of motorbike GP or wsbk. 2-3 tier of engine capacities. But unlike the smaller classes being a stepping stone to the big class (How I view motorbike racing), it's an egalitarian scene (How Klyntonious has pointed out motorbike racing was).
 
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In hindsight, the sequence should been like this from 1993.

5tlr rwd V8 - 3.6-4ltr rwd V6 "supercars" - 3.6-4ltr "super touring" - 2ltr in whatever guise.
Why not make it a V6 sedan championship?

Given the Mustang is the visual equivalent of the original Cristiano Ronaldo tribute bust, I think this is a false statement. The Commodore is nice but unremarkable and the Nissan is a ghost car - no one ever sees it.
The Honda, Subi, Audi and Astra all look at least as good as anything in Supercars to my eyes, maybe the Renault too. The Alpha and Hyundai are a bit boring but that may be more to do with livery.
The Mustang looks like a car crushed into something not at all like what it was meant to be, because it is.

But other than the Audi, there's nothing there that matches the look of the Ambrose BA Falcon or Skaife VY Commodore.

Show the casual fan (ie. not already invested/rusted on fan) the very best 10 laps/3 races, whatever, from this year and I think you'll find these statements to be false also.

I think in terms of popularity, it's all about time. V8s, whilst largely irrelevant now outside of the Mustang, is still the currently ingrained preference. But clearly the emerging generation is smaller car racing, there will be a transition and fans will move on from the past, sooner or later.
V8s are dead, but sedans are not.
 

Klyntonius

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But other than the Audi, there's nothing there that matches the look of the Ambrose BA Falcon or Skaife VY Commodore.
Which in turn don't hold a candle to Brock's A9X or Moffatt's '69 Mustang. But comparing current cars for racing to ancient ones is irrelevant.


V8s are dead, but sedans are not.
Large sedans are as dead as v8s.
 
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What exciting v6 sedans are going to fill out this series, capturing the imagination of the Australian public?
It is a crime that the Kia Stinger is not racing right now.

Because it's not 1999.

Unlike back then, when a 2ltr 4 cyl was a smaller car, that type of car is now a bigger motor nowadays.
And yet in Australia there are still at least 11 manufacturers selling V6, 4 door sedans, none of which run in any other series that I'm aware of.
 

imadodgyumpire

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It is a crime that the Kia Stinger is not racing right now.



And yet in Australia there are still at least 11 manufacturers selling V6, 4 door sedans, none of which run in any other series that I'm aware of.
I don't know if a Kia Stinger not racing is that big a deal.

Can you help me out and list the 11 manufacturers selling a V6 and their models?
 
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I don't know if a Kia Stinger not racing is that big a deal.
Why not? Could probably help Kia sell a few more of them as well, seeing as they're not doing a very good job of it so far.

Can you help me out and list the 11 manufacturers selling a V6 and their models?
I can, although I have to say I'm somewhat surprised you can't think of them yourself.
 

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I will take you at your word. Picking just one from manufacturers that have more than that, and I may even have missed some:

Audi S4
BMW M3
Holden Commodore
Infiniti Q50
Kia Stinger
Lexus IS
Maserati Ghibli
Mercedes-Benz CLS
Porsche Panemera
Subaru Liberty
Toyota Camry

Genesis G70 (on its way in)
Honda Accord (due to be phased out next year)
 

Klyntonius

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I will take you at your word. Picking just one from manufacturers that have more than that, and I may even have missed some:

Audi S4 - Turbo
BMW M3 - Twin Turbo
Holden Commodore - NA
Infiniti Q50 - Twin Turbo
Kia Stinger - Twin Turbo
Lexus IS - NA
Maserati Ghibli - Twin Turbo
Mercedes-Benz CLS - Turbo
Porsche Panemera - Turbo - Cooking model only - Top model Twin Turbo V8
Subaru Liberty - NA - Deleted for turbo 4 next year
Toyota Camry - NA

Genesis G70 (on its way in) Twin Turbo
Honda Accord (due to be phased out next year)
Can't see a workable series made out of this.
 
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Can't see a workable series made out of this.
a) You wouldn't need all of them
b) I seem to recall two cars that did not have V8s running in the series with V8 engines not too long ago. In fact, one is still going, and has been joined by another which was meant to have a V6 twin turbo, which you have listed as NA.
 

NSWCROW

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I will take you at your word. Picking just one from manufacturers that have more than that, and I may even have missed some:

Audi S4
BMW M3
Holden Commodore
Infiniti Q50
Kia Stinger
Lexus IS
Maserati Ghibli
Mercedes-Benz CLS
Porsche Panemera
Subaru Liberty
Toyota Camry

Genesis G70 (on its way in)
Honda Accord (due to be phased out next year)
Bathurst 6hr ?
 

Klyntonius

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a) You wouldn't need all of them
b) I seem to recall two cars that did not have V8s running in the series with V8 engines not too long ago. In fact, one is still going, and has been joined by another which was meant to have a V6 twin turbo, which you have listed as NA.
a) True, but you'd need to get some of them.
b) So the plan would basically be the current supercars but with v6's?
 
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a) True, but you'd need to get some of them.
b) So the plan would basically be the current supercars but with v6's?
Isn't that what a V6 sedan championship would imply? There are a bunch of problems with the way the championship is run at the moment, but as long as these sedans are being sold in Australia, they should be racing. Moving to V6 would solve one problem.
 

Klyntonius

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Isn't that what a V6 sedan championship would imply? There are a bunch of problems with the way the championship is run at the moment, but as long as these sedans are being sold in Australia, they should be racing. Moving to V6 would solve one problem.
V6s are already open to them in Supercars and they're not interested.
 
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V6s are already open to them in Supercars and they're not interested.
Triple Eight were pretty serious about it with the ZB, tested the engine and then at the last minute claimed that they pulled out of it because they were worried they couldn't make it competitive with the V8s. That doesn't like a lack of interest to me, that sounds like the V8s are clinging on and potentially costing the series by preventing a move to V6s.
 

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