The 23...

[usalion]

In your opinion....

Michael is the GOAT. He has issues dealing with being middled aged and with his best being behind him. He is in the middle of his life - he is clearly struggling with some aspects. If you heard "trying to make sure people think he is good" you heard a different speech to me.


He remains Mike. If you dont like that and think he should have done it better then fine.... solid citizens who are mediocre (relative to Mike) might be more your thing...

Who DOESN"T have problems dealing with middle age? The OP had the original point that Jordan was comparable to Gretzky and that the NBA should retire his number league wide like the NHL did with 99.

The two are quite different- as I pointed out in my post- Gretzky exues class in all that he does- Michael clearly shows a churlish nature towards his team and the people who helped him get to that point. He may well be the grweatest of all time (I'd put Wilt above him, averaging 50 points a game for an entire season, and a dapting his game...but that is a different argument- let the Bulls retire 23....but not the entire league.

Gretzky is as close to Bradman as I've seen- and I first saw Gretzky play when he was 15.

 

[BlueDiesel]

Micheal Jordan was nothing short of spectcular when he played, he talked himself down and talked himself up. Are you asking a person whos close to being a billionaire out of playing basketball and won and won and won to be modest please grow up people..... As for Bryan Russell you take it as him just being cheeky or really wanting to give it to Russell I would say he was just being cheeky.

I think Micheal was actually one of the nice guys of the NBA much better then the pot smoking wanna be gangsta rappers going arund. He was actually a good role model until his proper retirement. I just dont know what happened when an great athlete has to become a great scholar he certainly isnt perfect off the court but he was close to perfect it on it that why hes in the hall of fame.

 

[Borgsta]

He remains Mike. If you dont like that and think he should have done it better then fine.... solid citizens who are mediocre (relative to Mike) might be more your thing...

Why when there are so many options of the best players to have ever played the game being able to do so with poise and class. As mentioned before on this thread Gretzky is a perfect example of this. However feel free to throw in Tiger Woods as someone who is able to thank people and not put everyone down in his speeches. Federer is another perfect example.

I don't think it is necessarily that we heard different speeches, it is just that you refuse to believe he can do anything wrong. He handled the situation poorly and really in 2 years no one will even remember it but his kids certainly will.

 

[peternorth]

the williams sisters are great examples of sportsmanship.

wait. wat?

 

[peternorth]

and now.....b-russ sez "yo mj come to cali! ill pop a cap in ur ass wessss-side style!"

former jizz, pouf (wizard), laker, thuget, fame, lightning and breaker wants MJs blood

interesting

“…At this time I had no thoughts of coming back and playing the game of basketball,” Jordan said during his speech. “Bryon Russell came over to me and said, ‘Why’d you quit? You know I could guard you. If I ever see you in a pair of shorts…’

“When I did come back in 1995 and we played Utah in ’96, I’m at the center circle and Bryon Russell is standing next to me. I said, ‘You remember the [comments] you made in 1994 about, ‘I think I can guard you, I can shut you down, I would love to play against you? Well, you’re about to get your chance.’ ”

When the teams met in the ’98 Finals, Jordan hit his famous championship-clinching shot after knocking Russell backward. Jazz coach Jerry Sloan and point guard John Stockton, who also were being inducted, both shook their heads as Jordan told the story.

sloan was a great competitor but was known as a classy and gracious coach. i have fond memories of seeing him (both on tv and via photos) board the bulls bus after getting beat again and congratulating the players on their championship.

 

[Eagle87]

Why when there are so many options of the best players to have ever played the game being able to do so with poise and class. As mentioned before on this thread Gretzky is a perfect example of this. However feel free to throw in Tiger Woods as someone who is able to thank people and not put everyone down in his speeches. Federer is another perfect example.

I don't think it is necessarily that we heard different speeches, it is just that you refuse to believe he can do anything wrong. He handled the situation poorly and really in 2 years no one will even remember it but his kids certainly will.

You are aware that his son has said, on numerous occasions, how difficult it has been for him growing up as the son of MJ? He has commented that, at times, he wished he had a different name. MJ has previously noted that he hasnt always been comfortable (for both of them) going to his sons games because of the extra pressure he puts on them. His comment was no doubt aimed to be supportive - but hey, next time he should get you to write the speech - better he comes across as bland and uninteresting and reveals nothing like, funnily enough, the 3 guys you mention.

Your comment about my inability to accept him doing anything wrong is silly and juvenile - as usual for you. You want me to run through the list of champions who are, often, complete w***ers? It includes Wilt, Magic, Larry, Bill Russell & Kareem ,,,, which is interesting given the sport they play.

I get it, you'd like Mike to fit into your little box of how people should behave - thats fine ... you probably iron your socks too - nothing wrong with that either..... Mike doesn't care what you think and he remains the GOAT. But thanks for your opinion.

 

[sblack]

the williams sisters are great examples of sportsmanship.

wait. wat?

I actually saw someone somewhere say something like

'intensity ... sportsmanship. When I think of these words, Garnett comes to mind'

Idiot.

 

[Borgsta]

Your comment about my inability to accept him doing anything wrong is silly and juvenile - as usual for you. You want me to run through the list of champions who are, often, complete w***ers? It includes Wilt, Magic, Larry, Bill Russell & Kareem ,,,, which is interesting given the sport they play.

I get it, you'd like Mike to fit into your little box of how people should behave - thats fine ... you probably iron your socks too - nothing wrong with that either..... Mike doesn't care what you think and he remains the GOAT. But thanks for your opinion.

Seeing as you are going with that theme please explain how Wilt, Magic, Larry and Kareem are complete w***ers.

I appreciate that you want everyone to suck **** like you do but I don't care what you think. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Eagle87]

Seeing as you are going with that theme please explain how Wilt, Magic, Larry and Kareem are complete w***ers.

I appreciate that you want everyone to suck **** like you do but I don't care what you think. Thanks for your opinion.

So now you want me to fill in ALL the gaps in your basketball knowledge??? How much are you paying, I mean I have a day job.

I love how you ALWAYS go down the "anyone who disagrees with me is a brown nose/**** sucker/ etc" path.

You seriously arent aware of the back stories to the 4 named? Seriously? How old are you?

 

[Borgsta]

So now you want me to fill in ALL the gaps in your basketball knowledge??? How much are you paying, I mean I have a day job.

I love how you ALWAYS go down the "anyone who disagrees with me is a brown nose/**** sucker/ etc" path.

You seriously arent aware of the back stories to the 4 named? Seriously? How old are you?

I'll give you 1 cent.

Not sure if you noticed but I just copied what you did. Instead of using "ironing your socks" I changed it to sucking *****. Do you get it yet? Oh wait thats right you think I ALWAYS go down that path. You don't realise that you always start the bagging of people because they disagreed with you.

Are all 4 of them still being twats though? Magic and Larry handle themselves really well these days and have pretty much since retirement. I've never heard Bill come out and pay out people but then again I haven't seen much of him in Australia in the past 15 years. Really can't recall Kareem doing too much either. Remember this is all post retirement. Jordan has been retired from basketball (lets forget the Washington days) for 10 years now.

In the time it took you to write your numerrous spiels on here you could have described what any 1 of them has done recently. Also why does it matter that other basketball players are ********s? Why could Jordan not break the trend?

 

[Hodges]

You are aware that his son has said, on numerous occasions, how difficult it has been for him growing up as the son of MJ? He has commented that, at times, he wished he had a different name. MJ has previously noted that he hasnt always been comfortable (for both of them) going to his sons games because of the extra pressure he puts on them. His comment was no doubt aimed to be supportive - but hey, next time he should get you to write the speech - better he comes across as bland and uninteresting and reveals nothing like, funnily enough, the 3 guys you mention.

Your comment about my inability to accept him doing anything wrong is silly and juvenile - as usual for you. You want me to run through the list of champions who are, often, complete w***ers? It includes Wilt, Magic, Larry, Bill Russell & Kareem ,,,, which is interesting given the sport they play.

I get it, you'd like Mike to fit into your little box of how people should behave - thats fine ... you probably iron your socks too - nothing wrong with that either..... Mike doesn't care what you think and he remains the GOAT. But thanks for your opinion.

How is BR a w***er? Every interview ive seen with him he comes across as a genuinely nice guy - he was the epitomy of a team player, the opposite of Jordan. Explain please.

 

[sblack]

I would probably put Russell in the humble category.

 

[Eagle87]

How is BR a w***er? Every interview ive seen with him he comes across as a genuinely nice guy - he was the epitomy of a team player, the opposite of Jordan. Explain please.

I am giggling now. Yes, Jordan just won those 6 titles without playing within a team concept.

MJ has likely done more media that anyone on Earth. 99.9% of those interviews he plays the game and comes across as a great guy.

Read the biographies on the 4 games named and tell me that they have always been great guys.

 

[Hodges]

I am giggling now. Yes, Jordan just won those 6 titles without playing within a team concept.

MJ has likely done more media that anyone on Earth. 99.9% of those interviews he plays the game and comes across as a great guy.

Read the biographies on the 4 games named and tell me that they have always been great guys.

To start with, you named 5 guys - so who are you taking off your list?

Secondly, there is a huge difference in being a team player and understanding a team concept. Russell never took credit individually for his titles, he was always mentioning his team-mates, crediting them with what he achieved. MJ was always quick to point out that he was top dog, that he ran the show. He never gives credit to his team mates, without whom he never would have won shit.

 

[Eagle87]

I'll give you 1 cent.

Not sure if you noticed but I just copied what you did. Instead of using "ironing your socks" I changed it to sucking *****. Do you get it yet? Oh wait thats right you think I ALWAYS go down that path. You don't realise that you always start the bagging of people because they disagreed with you.

Are all 4 of them still being twats though? Magic and Larry handle themselves really well these days and have pretty much since retirement. I've never heard Bill come out and pay out people but then again I haven't seen much of him in Australia in the past 15 years. Really can't recall Kareem doing too much either. Remember this is all post retirement. Jordan has been retired from basketball (lets forget the Washington days) for 10 years now.

In the time it took you to write your numerrous spiels on here you could have described what any 1 of them has done recently. Also why does it matter that other basketball players are ********s? Why could Jordan not break the trend?

I get what you were doing - like most things you are just poor at it - just like not getting that my responses to you were in line with, so called, "bad mike's, I dont give a **** attitude ".....

Nice use of changed parameters (i.e. since retirement) to change the point of attack.

Have the players named been nicer than Mike in their years since they exited the game? Maybe.

Some of them had a fair bit further to come back from than MJ. None of them were ever as big as MJ and as subject to the same level of scrutiny - and thats saying something when it comes to Bird and Magic. He is a guy struggling to find his way and his role .... he remains the GOAT ... I am sure he is deeply hurt that you wish he was more like the 70 year old Russell - one suspects, by 70, he will be.

Russell for one was viewed as surly and difficult. Tommy Heinsohn (and others suggested they would quit the C's if Russell was made coach - Red got his way). He held a grudge against Heinsohn for 20+ years because Heinsohn (his teammate) got rookie of the year over him. He once punched a player unconscious because he didnt like constant fouling. He refused to attend either the retiring of his own number OR his induction into the Hall of Fame!! He also had serious financial difficulty after retirement - from memory went bankrupt and was chased by the IRS. When he couldnt cut it as a commentator he argued it was because he was too smart and people were too stupid to understand his superior basketball knowledge..... and so on and so on.....

But hey, for 1 cent, thats all you get .....

But yes, Russell has been a paragon of virtue since retirement. And I am a big time Celtics fan - so its not like I dont love the great man. I just have a more rounded view of humans - we all have flaws.

 

[Eagle87]

To start with, you named 5 guys - so who are you taking off your list?

Secondly, there is a huge difference in being a team player and understanding a team concept. Russell never took credit individually for his titles, he was always mentioning his team-mates, crediting them with what he achieved. MJ was always quick to point out that he was top dog, that he ran the show. He never gives credit to his team mates, without whom he never would have won shit.

Thanks dad

He shrunk the list to 4 - I was responding to him. Its not that hard to follow. All 5 have been prize w***ers in aspects of their lives. Which is no big deal from my perspective - its just an issue for the rah-rah role model crew.

If you believe anything in your second paragraph, you are completely and utterly clueless - and I am being nice in saying that. Russell knew he was the man - and he made sure everyone else knew that too. The first thing MJ did the other night was point out Pippen.

Sure, Russell played his role, but so did MJ. The fact that MJ was a big time scorer doesnt mean he wasnt a team guy - that was just part of his role.

How old are you? (This is trying to give you an excuse for said cluelessness)

 

[Hodges]

Thanks dad

He shrunk the list to 4 - I was responding to him. Its not that hard to follow. All 5 have been prize w***ers in aspects of their lives. Which is no big deal from my perspective - its just an issue for the rah-rah role model crew.

If you believe anything in your second paragraph, you are completely and utterly clueless - and I am being nice in saying that. Russell knew he was the man - and he made sure everyone else knew that too. The first thing MJ did the other night was point out Pippen.

Sure, Russell played his role, but so did MJ. The fact that MJ was a big time scorer doesnt mean he wasnt a team guy - that was just part of his role.

How old are you? (This is trying to give you an excuse for said cluelessness)

So I had a big reply written, but ive realised whats the point. Your a Jordan homer, thats fine. Im not going to change your opinion, and so this is a waste of time.

Oh and I quoted your post, you quoted mine - not that hard to follow indeed.

 

[peternorth]

fk me. shit got real in here.

 

[Eagle87]

So I had a big reply written, but ive realised whats the point. Your a Jordan homer, thats fine. Im not going to change your opinion, and so this is a waste of time.

Oh and I quoted your post, you quoted mine - not that hard to follow indeed.

Bwahahaha.... true, its not much fun when I hand you your arse is it.

Why is anyone that points out the truth and contests the silly view that all "legends" should fit in some sort of behaviour box, is automatically a homer and can't take criticism?

Its not true. Jordan is flawed. My point is who gives a ****? The answer is a couple of the children in here who, in line with their "holier than thou" view of the world, aim for the high moral ground.

If you have an argument, make it. You havent... and you havent.

I note that neither of you have actually challenged any of the comments made on BR - who is a prize w***er, and one of the greatest of all time.

 

[peternorth]

Its not true. Jordan is flawed. My point is who gives a ****? The answer is a couple of the children in here who, in line with their "holier than thou" view of the world, aim for the high moral ground.

you might wanna name and shame them

also isnt it a bit childish to call someone a child, especially on the internet?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I have called the police on all of you.

 

[peternorth]

I have called the police on all of you.

right. in. front. of. me

 

[Borgsta]

you might wanna name and shame them

also isnt it a bit childish to call someone a child, especially on the internet?

That's his MO. Call people juvenile and childish, use light time insults in every second sentence and then complain when someone insults back.

That along with completely changing someone else's point and then making it sound like they have a vendetta against whatever they are arguing.

EG. His comments that I am changing the facts to post retirement, when my initial and only arguement is that a guy that is 46 years old and has been retired from the game for 10 years could have handled it with a bit more class. This got a response stating how all champions are w***ers and listed a heap of guys who wouldn't have been paying good money for script writers and had lawyers go over their speeches.

I also keep being told he is the GOAT, even though I mentioned that in my first or second post.

But hey we are all juvenile.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I have now called the police on Borgsta.


And, MJ's speech just reaffirmed why I have manlove for Dirk. He isnt as talented as Kobe/LeBron/MJ, but I'd rather lose with him than win with them.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

p.s. my Mum went to Coles to get my nappies, and I will continue posting until she gets home and then its my bed time.