The 2nd Division Thread (proposal)

[TheGreatBarryB]

Old NSL clubs with big ethnic backgrounds won’t be picked. So can discount Knights, Hellas, Marconi, Brunswick. They don’t want them in the A League

 

[GC2015]

Old NSL clubs with big ethnic backgrounds won’t be picked. So can discount Knights, Hellas, Marconi, Brunswick. They don’t want them in the A League

Could you argue that the Brisbane Roar are an old NSL team of "ethnic background" that entered the A-League? Queensland Lions FC were established by Dutch immigrants and competed in the NSL between 1977-88. The Lions were winning bid team that was chosen to enter the A-League and rebranded to the Roar due to possible confusion with the AFL team. Brisbane Roar have assumed all the Lions' historical records so for all intents and purposes it is an ethnic club that was allowed to enter the A-League. Unless we have a different definition of the word "ethnic"?

 

[RossFC]

Are Metro Stars and West Adelaide Hellas out of the running?

 

[Andonis1997]

Old NSL clubs with big ethnic backgrounds won’t be picked. So can discount Knights, Hellas, Marconi, Brunswick. They don’t want them in the A League

This isn't 2004, and there's been 4 people that have run Football Australia since then.

If South, Knights, Marconi and Brunswick are capable, they'll be in this league, though I highly doubt Brunswick's getting in.

 

[Andonis1997]

Are Metro Stars and West Adelaide Hellas out of the running?

Looks like Hellas is, where have you seen MetroStars pull out?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Could you argue that the Brisbane Roar are an old NSL team of "ethnic background" that entered the A-League? Queensland Lions FC were established by Dutch immigrants and competed in the NSL between 1977-88. The Lions were winning bid team that was chosen to enter the A-League and rebranded to the Roar due to possible confusion with the AFL team. Brisbane Roar have assumed all the Lions' historical records so for all intents and purposes it is an ethnic club that was allowed to enter the A-League. Unless we have a different definition of the word "ethnic"?

Think quite different situations. FFA regarded their history as more inclusive compared to other teams.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

This isn't 2004, and there's been 4 people that have run Football Australia since then.

If South, Knights, Marconi and Brunswick are capable, they'll be in this league, though I highly doubt Brunswick's getting in.

Not just talking 2004. 2008 when South was part of the Southern Cross that lost out to Hearts. South had two takeover offers rejected and recently South lost out in latest bid to enter A League.

Who knows maybe dropping the NCIP policy a couple of years ago may be a sign.

 

[RossFC]

Looks like Hellas is, where have you seen MetroStars pull out?

I haven't been really keeping track, just saw a news report on Channel 10 SA a few weeks back Metro Stars want in, that's all.

 

[GC2015]

Think quite different situations. FFA regarded their history as more inclusive compared to other teams.

So the word "ethnic" means something else to the FFA? The Dutch are allowed in but the Greeks and Croats aren't?

 

[typeclub]

No, they most certainly have been since 2004. Again, you just don't know the facts. Stop making yourself look silly. If you want to hate on the A-League, at least check or double check your "facts". And you obviously missed the football at Hindmarsh tonight... that was football, in the A-League. Kid, you have a chip, and still haven't proved otherwise.

I don't have to prove nothing to A-League stans like you who don't know history or even discuss that trash league in this thread, I only post hype about real clubs being on a national scale where they belong. You can go discuss the failed A-League in their dedicated threads.

 

[typeclub]

So the word "ethnic" means something else to the FFA? The Dutch are allowed in but the Greeks and Croats aren't?

its all about which migrants the racist governing bodies of Football in Aus approved of at the time.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

So the word "ethnic" means something else to the FFA? The Dutch are allowed in but the Greeks and Croats aren't?

Gees does it have to spelled out? They view old Lions as inclusive, nowhere near level of support of the other clubs…. and no waving of Dutch flags singing Dutch National songs at their matches. Old Lions were barely known! Their view is pretty obvious isn’t it? Silly comparison

 

[acm21]

Dear VEFC Community, We have submitted an EOI for the NST (National Second Tier) competition. (This would be a national comp under the A-league.) 32 other clubs from around Australia also submitted an EOI. Our vision, is that it will provide a great pathway for players within our club and region via an additional player pathway on top of our existing structure. It should also result in a big infrastructure investment for our club. With overseas investment, this will not / has not cost the club anything. The next step of the process is to be shortlisted and, if successful, to be invited to submit a more detailed proposal. We will wait and see how we go

 

[DEVO]

Disappointed to see only 2 Canberra clubs put in an application, and a little sad that the club I played for as a kid did not apply, I would have loved to See Tuggeranong United in the big leagues. Oh well, I guess I will never follow Australian football.

 

[Munga]

Disappointed to see only 2 Canberra clubs put in an application, and a little sad that the club I played for as a kid did not apply, I would have loved to See Tuggeranong United in the big leagues. Oh well, I guess I will never follow Australian football.

I believe there will still be a couple more expansions after this. And the hope of promotion later on.

But if they can't get up for that you can always support Canberra United when they enter soon.

 

[DEVO]

I believe there will still be a couple more expansions after this. And the hope of promotion later on.

But if they can't get up for that you can always support Canberra United when they enter soon.

If they call themselves Canberra United and adopt the colours of our AFW team I will follow them.

But if they select a different name and force the AFW team to adopt the new name then I won't.

 

[GC2015]

Disappointed to see only 2 Canberra clubs put in an application, and a little sad that the club I played for as a kid did not apply, I would have loved to See Tuggeranong United in the big leagues. Oh well, I guess I will never follow Australian football.

A bit off topic here but I've always wondered why fans of the round ball game refer to their sport as 'Australian football'. Why is that? There's nothing Australian about it. If anything it's European football and referring to it as 'Australian football' just adds to the confusion because we have another sport called 'Australian rules football'. I know fans of the round ball game despise the idea of their sport being referred to as 'soccer' and even that seems odd when they'll proudly chant 'Socceroos!' when watching our national team play.

Is it just attempt from Football Australia to change the vernacular amongst Australian sports fans? The reason I ask is because I've often heard people associated with Football Australia and the Socceroos refer to it as 'Australian Football'.

 

[Munga]

A bit off topic here but I've always wondered why fans of the round ball game refer to their sport as 'Australian football'. Why is that? There's nothing Australian about it. If anything it's European football and referring to it as 'Australian football' just adds to the confusion because we have another sport called 'Australian rules football'. I know fans of the round ball game despise the idea of their sport being referred to as 'soccer' and even that seems odd when they'll proudly chant 'Socceroos!' when watching our national team play.

Is it just attempt from Football Australia to change the vernacular amongst Australian sports fans? The reason I ask is because I've often heard people associated with Football Australia and the Socceroos refer to it as 'Australian Football'.

Pretty sure they're referring to "Australian football" as the domestic leagues (A-League/NPL etc.), to distinguish from following international leagues.

But to your point, I don't give a stuff about calling it soccer, but a lot of others do. I suppose people get sh*tted off when some say "I play AFL" or "I follow the footy"... no, you play Aussie Rules and you follow AFL.

I flip between soccer and football depending on who I'm talking with. For some reason it really stresses out the non round-ball followers, usually the "thick as sh*t" single-minded people.

I'm pretty sure it was called "football" in this country decades before "socca" was even mentioned.

 

[GC2015]

Pretty sure they're referring to "Australian football" as the domestic leagues (A-League/NPL etc.), to distinguish from following international leagues.

But to your point, I don't give a stuff about calling it soccer, but a lot of others do. I suppose people get sh*tted off when some say "I play AFL" or "I follow the footy"... no, you play Aussie Rules and you follow AFL.

I flip between soccer and football depending on who I'm talking with. For some reason it really stresses out the non round-ball followers, usually the "thick as sh*t" single-minded people.

I'm pretty sure it was called "football" in this country decades before "socca" was even mentioned.

Couldn't you just say A-League and/or NPL if you wanted to refer to particular leagues? I know people often refer to the top league in England as the EPL/Premier League and the second league as the Championship. Bundesliga 1 & 2 in Germany, Ligue 1 & 2 in France, Serie A & B in Italy etc. Why can't we follow suit? Another problem is if you want to refer to the "Leagues" of "Australian Football", yet we already have an "Australian Football League" that is used by a different sport, then we have a vernacular problem. It's confusing to have "Australian Football (leagues)" referring to one sport and "Australian Football League" referring to another sport.

I guess the bigger problem is that in this country is that we have 3-4 sports that all appear to have legitimate claims to the word "football" and no one wants to be relegated to a distinguishing word. Ask your average person in Melbourne what they think the word "football" means and they probably show you a sherrin. Ask your average person in Brisbane what they think "football" means and they probably answer with one of the rugby codes. Ask your average person in western Sydney what they think "football" means and they probably hand you a round ball.

I can understand the annoyance when trying to converse with someone and you're not always on the same page when using the word "football". In England, it's clear that "football" means the round ball game. In America, it's clear that "football" means the pigskin. In Australia, it's not clear at all. Having said that, I'm surprised that you've come across more non round-ball followers who have a problem with switching between the two words when in my experience it's actually been the round ball followers who are bothered most by the use of the word "soccer". I would be truly shocked if you hadn't been told off for using the word "soccer" around other round ball followers.

Think you might be a little off about the way the round ball game was referred to in Australia historically. In 1882 the first ever administrative body for the round ball game was established in this country as the "South British Football Soccer Association". That would imply that the word "soccer" has been used to refer to the sport just as long as "football" has when it comes to the round ball game in this country.

 

[Munga]

Couldn't you just say A-League and/or NPL if you wanted to refer to particular leagues? I know people often refer to the top league in England as the EPL/Premier League and the second league as the Championship. Bundesliga 1 & 2 in Germany, Ligue 1 & 2 in France, Serie A & B in Italy etc. Why can't we follow suit? Another problem is if you want to refer to the "Leagues" of "Australian Football", yet we already have an "Australian Football League" that is used by a different sport, then we have a vernacular problem. It's confusing to have "Australian Football (leagues)" referring to one sport and "Australian Football League" referring to another sport.

I guess the bigger problem is that in this country is that we have 3-4 sports that all appear to have legitimate claims to the word "football" and no one wants to be relegated to a distinguishing word. Ask your average person in Melbourne what they think the word "football" means and they probably show you a sherrin. Ask your average person in Brisbane what they think "football" means and they probably answer with one of the rugby codes. Ask your average person in western Sydney what they think "football" means and they probably hand you a round ball.

I can understand the annoyance when trying to converse with someone and you're not always on the same page when using the word "football". In England, it's clear that "football" means the round ball game. In America, it's clear that "football" means the pigskin. In Australia, it's not clear at all. Having said that, I'm surprised that you've come across more non round-ball followers who have a problem with switching between the two words when in my experience it's actually been the round ball followers who are bothered most by the use of the word "soccer". I would be truly shocked if you hadn't been told off for using the word "soccer" around other round ball followers.

Think you might be a little off about the way the round ball game was referred to in Australia historically. In 1882 the first ever administrative body for the round ball game was established in this country as the "South British Football Soccer Association". That would imply that the word "soccer" has been used to refer to the sport just as long as "football" has when it comes to the round ball game in this country.

Why would that person have to list every single league in Australia that they don't want to follow? A bit silly, that's a long list. There are more leagues than just "A-League and/or NPL". To quote DEVO, "I guess I will never follow Australian football", on this forum, I think it's pretty clear what they're talking about.

Your quote, "I would be truly shocked if you hadn't been told off for using the word "soccer" around other round ball followers". Sorry, I should've been clearer when I said, "I flip between soccer and football depending on who I'm talking with". I have never been told off for using "soccer" around football followers because I haven't used that word around football followers, it's football. If I'm talking about Aussie Rules and have to mention football, I will call it soccer. Similar as when I'm talking about football and have to mention Aussie Rules, I usually call it "footy" to distinguish. You know the Swiss have four official languages? All in one brain, amazing.

On you're last point, I don't think I'm a "little off". As I said, "I'm pretty sure it was called "football" in this country decades before "socca" was even mentioned". We were playing "football" in this country long before 1882. You're talking the 'organisations', I'm talking the 'playing and naming'. You can find "football" being played here back to at least the 1820s, and I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Aussie Rules. If anything, Aussie Rules was last to the party of being called 'football' in this country. Playing with a football has been happening around the world for millennia, and I dare say that one or more forms of football was played here, and known as 'football', since around 1788. And again, it certainly wasn't Aussie Rules.

Back then, there were a bunch of different rules and variations of football. Cambridge, Sheffield, Rugby, Caid etc. Pre 1860s, in Association Football, you could actually catch the ball/mark, tackle by hand, shepherd... Sound familiar? (Bruce Kamau still thinks he can tackle with hands). That was the football being played in 1820s Australia, association football, before Tom Wills was even born. Even American Football was born from Association Football.

Aussie Rules/Wills seems to have borrowed parts from these other British rules and adapted itself to be played on cricket ovals. He actually went to Rugby School and Cambridge and played there! The original Aussie Rules is closer to the other British rules than it is to the current Aussie Rules. Imagine if it still had two posts and the place kick! I'll mention Marngrook while we're here. I can't see it having anything to do the origin of Aussie Rules, although it would be lovely if it did. I find it really uncomfortable when people try to link it. Marngrook was it's own awesome game, it does also sound quite like the original association football according to this 1841 quote, "The players of this game do not throw the ball as a white man might do, but drop it and at the same time kicks it with his foot, using the instep for that purpose". A few decades later the ball is being thrown, "Each side endeavours to keep possession of the ball, which is tossed a short distance by hand, then kicked in any direction" - 1881. I'm certainly not an expert and there's more to this broad story, only going with what's out there.

Like I said, I don't care what people call different sports. What does annoy me is people claiming Aussie Rules and nothing else is football here. That's just plain ignorant. Aussie Rules might be able to claim the oldest clubs and organisation in this country, but certainly not the word "football" nor the oldest form of football here.

 

[DEVO]

A bit off topic here but I've always wondered why fans of the round ball game refer to their sport as 'Australian football'. Why is that? There's nothing Australian about it. If anything it's European football and referring to it as 'Australian football' just adds to the confusion because we have another sport called 'Australian rules football'. I know fans of the round ball game despise the idea of their sport being referred to as 'soccer' and even that seems odd when they'll proudly chant 'Socceroos!' when watching our national team play.

Is it just attempt from Football Australia to change the vernacular amongst Australian sports fans? The reason I ask is because I've often heard people associated with Football Australia and the Socceroos refer to it as 'Australian Football'.

Couldn't you just say A-League and/or NPL if you wanted to refer to particular leagues? I know people often refer to the top league in England as the EPL/Premier League and the second league as the Championship. Bundesliga 1 & 2 in Germany, Ligue 1 & 2 in France, Serie A & B in Italy etc. Why can't we follow suit? Another problem is if you want to refer to the "Leagues" of "Australian Football", yet we already have an "Australian Football League" that is used by a different sport, then we have a vernacular problem. It's confusing to have "Australian Football (leagues)" referring to one sport and "Australian Football League" referring to another sport.

I guess the bigger problem is that in this country is that we have 3-4 sports that all appear to have legitimate claims to the word "football" and no one wants to be relegated to a distinguishing word. Ask your average person in Melbourne what they think the word "football" means and they probably show you a sherrin. Ask your average person in Brisbane what they think "football" means and they probably answer with one of the rugby codes. Ask your average person in western Sydney what they think "football" means and they probably hand you a round ball.

I can understand the annoyance when trying to converse with someone and you're not always on the same page when using the word "football". In England, it's clear that "football" means the round ball game. In America, it's clear that "football" means the pigskin. In Australia, it's not clear at all. Having said that, I'm surprised that you've come across more non round-ball followers who have a problem with switching between the two words when in my experience it's actually been the round ball followers who are bothered most by the use of the word "soccer". I would be truly shocked if you hadn't been told off for using the word "soccer" around other round ball followers.

Think you might be a little off about the way the round ball game was referred to in Australia historically. In 1882 the first ever administrative body for the round ball game was established in this country as the "South British Football Soccer Association". That would imply that the word "soccer" has been used to refer to the sport just as long as "football" has when it comes to the round ball game in this country.

Sorry dude, it was a tongue in cheek comment about not having a team to follow in Australia's premier football league, but I didn't think anyone could misconstrue my "Australian Football" comment as anything relating to AFL, NRL or Rugby when we are on the Association Football Forum and in a thread talking about the 2nd Division. I shall refrain from over estimating my fellow posters again.

 

[GC2015]

Like I said, I don't care what people call different sports. What does annoy me is people claiming Aussie Rules and nothing else is football here. That's just plain ignorant. Aussie Rules might be able to claim the oldest clubs and organisation in this country, but certainly not the word "football" nor the oldest form of football here.

I didn't make that claim. I simply stated only using the words like 'football' and 'Australian football' to describe the round ball game can be confusing in this country because we have a professional league called the Australian Football League and a sport called Australian rules football. It's not ignorant to say using mostly/the exact same word/s to describe two or more sports can be confusing, it's just searching clarity on the matter. If you asked your average Brit 'What is Australian football?' I doubt they'd think you're referring to the round ball game, just like if you asked them 'What is American football?'. Ask four average Australians what 'football' is and you potentially get four different answers. Don't even bother attempting to ask an American (even ones living in Australia) what the word "football" means because they won't accept anything other than the pigskin.

I do wonder what a guy like Zach Tuohy would consider "football" because growing up in Ireland he would have likely defaulted to Gaelic Football, with a chance of it being the round ball game, but he has lived in Victoria for quite a while now and may just consider Aussie rules to be "football". The same could be said about Mike Pyke who probably grew up believing "football" meant Canadian/American football, then he got into the rugby union community and potentially started referring to that sport as "football" before eventually ending up at the Sydney Swans where he possibly started believing Aussie rules was "football" but may have even adopted the local terminology and started believing "football/footy" meant rugby league.

You say you use the word "footy" to distinguish between Aussie rules and association football, which is probably totally fine in Melbourne because Aussie rules is the dominant code but up here in Queensland "footy" usually means rugby league but can occasionally mean rugby union or Aussie rules. I've even heard British expats who live here use "footy" to describe the round ball game. Perhaps it's more clear in Melbourne but that's not the case in other parts of Australia.

I'm glad you brought up the British universities/schools because they themselves encountered this issue back in the late 1800s when trying to distinguish between various forms of "football" at the time and Oxford University coined the words "rugger" and "assoccer" to ease any confusion between the two types of football. Eventually those two words became "rugby" and "soccer" which people all around the world use to this day. So if you actually want to blame anyone for the rise of the word "soccer" you can blame the British and I'm sure we would have fallen in line and called it "football" as well if the round ball game had become the most popular sport in Australia but that simply didn't happen. So here we are with four separate sports that all like to lay claim to the word "football" and it's not clear which one someone is referring to unless they give context.

Oh, and to add to the confusion, our national team is proudly referred to as the 'Socceroos' but within that community they definitely, 100%, unequivocally don't play 'soccer'. Got it?

Sorry dude, it was a tongue in cheek comment about not having a team to follow in Australia's premier football league, but I didn't think anyone could misconstrue my "Australian Football" comment as anything relating to AFL, NRL or Rugby when we are on the Association Football Forum and in a thread talking about the 2nd Division. I shall refrain from over estimating my fellow posters again.

I understood what you were referring to because your post provided context (as well as being in the "Association Football (Soccer) sub forum). I brought it up because reading those words in your post reminded me of an interview I saw from the most recent FIFA World Cup and the Socceroo being interviewed at the time said something to the effect of 'this is an amazing moment for Australian football'. Again, with the context of being at the World Cup, it's pretty obvious what he meant but that quote in isolation is ambiguous at best.

Ultimately, I'm just pointing out the vernacular issue we have with the word "football" in this country. That's all.

 

[Munga]

 

[GC2015]

Nice to see former A-League side Gold Coast United are still in the running.

 

[acm21]

I wonder the reason behind cutting each 6 sides. I wonder if it's market and venue related.

Apparently there is a significant deposit required as part of this next round which will see a number of mergers and drop outs.