The 2nd level at Etihad - a blight on the game

cammo78

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#76
If people are paying $7000 for St Kilda v Melbourne, North v GWS etc then they've got issues anyway. Those tickets are for corporates to allow entertainment at big ticket games such as Friday nights Essendon v North mini blockbuster. My plan is not about those games.

As mentioned you can get medallion club tickets plus car parks for $30 on eBay. Selling a legitimate ticket to the second level minus the bar and other medallion club facilities for $33 doesn't impact the cost of a medallion club ticket in my mind.
To be honest, I think your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Those people (businesses) pay their $7k for the right to use that seat whenever they choose and for whomever you choose. If they don't use it - it's their seat and they are entitled to expect the value of it is maintained by not having it on sold by a third party at a low value.

It defeats the whole purpose of purchasing the seat (as opposed to having purchased specific games) in the first place.

I'm not sure on what basis you expect to receive a premium product at a budget price. It's a free market economy and, in short, you get what you pay for. If I was forking out $7k a year to buy my own seat at a stadium, I'd be filthy if Joe Average could "rent" it from the stadium for bugger all. In essence - you're asking them to sell (rent) you a seat that for all intents and purposes isn't theirs to give you.

Lets say, for example, I'm a busy businessman - I can't make the first half of the match but get there at half time, and find someone sitting in my premium seat that had been sold out from under me by Etihad? How good would Etihad look to these important stakeholders? And why should I be expected to inform the stadium whether I will/won't be attending each match to facilitate this regime?

If I own that seat and don't wish to go, I'll either sell it myself, or it can sit empty.
 

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doppleganger

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#77
If people are paying $7000 for St Kilda v Melbourne, North v GWS etc then they've got issues anyway. Those tickets are for corporates to allow entertainment at big ticket games such as Friday nights Essendon v North mini blockbuster. My plan is not about those games.

As mentioned you can get medallion club tickets plus car parks for $30 on eBay. Selling a legitimate ticket to the second level minus the bar and other medallion club facilities for $33 doesn't impact the cost of a medallion club ticket in my mind.
No the 7000 is what you pay for the right to use ur seats as you see fit....if you don't want to go you have already paid for the privilege.

If the AFL simply can onsell those seats, no chance can charge 7K up front for them
 

Bunk Moreland

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#78
Does it cost more money for someone to sit on the second level than third? I think it would actually cost less as you'd cart less food, drink, cleaning materials etc up an extra level, only a small difference but still counts.

4 tickets at 25 for third level plus 2 at 50 for second level = 200. 6 tickets at 33 for second level costs 200. I'd pay $8 more for a second level ticket but not $25 more. Make it only a small amount of tickets so axcess one, medallion club and reserved seats retain their value. Plus it's only for small games so it makes little difference for a lot of games. Make them on sale only at the ground and as they'll sell out quickly people will turn up for these 2,000 good seats. They'll buy more food and drink to contribute more to Etihad's bank balance.

I don't understand why people are against it. It's a way for everyone to benefit.

Have you been to an Etihad game with a crowd of 30,000 or less? It really is like going to the movies with a giant lot of empty seats right where everyone would like to sit.
The stadium wouldn't benefit.

The seats you're talking about may be unoccupied, but they're generally not "empty" in a financial sense. They've already been paid for by Medallion Club, Access One and a small amount of high level club members. I exclude the third group from this discussion because I highly doubt many of their seats are empty - if you're passionate enough to buy an expensive high end club membership, I reckon you go to most games.

Medallion and Access One are aimed at the corporate market. There'd be very few individuals who own them, I hazard to guess. They're not for any one sport or club, it's a reserved seat for any event whatsoever at the stadium. They cost a shiteload and one of the benefits is they're wholly reserved and wholly transferrable. You buy them for use by different people each event - yourself, employees, customers, suppliers etc etc. That's the concept.

That concept needs a high degree of flexibility. You need the option to be able to handball them off to anyone who can use them at any point. It's part of the benefit. Take away that flexibility, and less businesses would buy them. It's already very competitive for the corproate hospitality dollar. It adds value to the product when you have the ability to call someone up the day before and offer them some free premium seats.

The effect would be higher at events of lower interest because there's less demand to see them, and thus they're not as higher prized a "gift" for a business to give away to somebody.

On top of all this if you've ever been in there, many of the people are there - they're just behind the glass eating and drinking.
 

Jonesracing82

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#79
I sat in the Medallion club once - A friend had special tickets through his work -

It was a bit of a novelty sitting in some pretty good seats, but I nearly didn't get in because of the state of my shoes, and even after getting past that hurdle, I had some numpty behind me getting annoyed that I was too loud (! ? )

Feel way more comfortable up in the nosebleeds.. It's where I tend to be :thumbsu:
correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that the reason we go? i have the same issue in our Cheer Sqd as the group i sit with have made up our own chants are we are loud (we pay extra for the priveledge of sitting in this area per year) and people complain about us being too loud etc. yet thats what Cheersquads are for. to be loud as it creates better atmosphere, especially with the Grog Sqd (standing area behind us) in full noise as well. iof people want to watch the footy in boring silence they should stay at home.
 

radiojake

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#80
Yeh I don't quite know what his problem was - But it was funny cos he ended up moving after half time -

I admit I do have a bit of a penetrating voice. I guess normally being the odd Crows supporter in a crowd full of Vics I tend to stand out a bit. Quite often it gets to the point if there are kids around me they start looking up and waiting for my reaction if something goes against Adelaide -
 

Lockyer24

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#81
Yep

Paying $7 for a decent Brooklyn Nets ticket 2 hrs before the game (Y)
Etihad/AFL runs on greed..surely they can see a benefit in a reserved seat being on-sold and taking a further cut, with the seat holders getting a rebate too. Fill up the stands.
 

Lockyer24

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#83
What happens if the person who's seat they sold turns up later in the match?
Its a system for those who know they are definately not going...up to a certain time before the game. They get a rebate for handing over their seat/seats.
 

cammo78

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#86
I think subiaco has a system like that, I'm all for something in that format.
Every seat at every match at Subiaco is sold out. So it's in everyone's interests to on sell single match tickets where the member is not able to attend.

There are always seats available at Etihad - people are just expecting premium product/budget price on the basis that the rightful owners aren't utilising their "property" at a given match.

No comparison.
 

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master bate

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Thread starter #88
Every seat at every match at Subiaco is sold out. So it's in everyone's interests to on sell single match tickets where the member is not able to attend.

There are always seats available at Etihad - people are just expecting premium product/budget price on the basis that the rightful owners aren't utilising their "property" at a given match.

No comparison.
Level 2 at Etihad is like Subiaco. Level 1 and 3 at Etihad is like sitting at home to further your analogy. If level 2 aren't using their property it's still in everyones interest to make those seats available.

I don't understand how a bulldogs supporter can be happy with a situation where the rank and file members, supporters and opposition supporters turn up to a ground that is largely missing it's best layer of seats.

Going to bulldogs games must be like going to the movies, except half the time of late the movie has sucked. And you can either over pay for the good seats or not. And very few choose to overpay for the good seats. I say overpay because if the seats were worth it they'd be full.

Most of this year people are going to rock up to saints games, watch them lose, sit in bad seats whilst great ones are free and apparently not care too much because they don't want to upset Etihad or medallion club people who aren't turning up.
 

The Passenger

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#89
The stadium wouldn't benefit.

The seats you're talking about may be unoccupied, but they're generally not "empty" in a financial sense. They've already been paid for by Medallion Club, Access One and a small amount of high level club members. I exclude the third group from this discussion because I highly doubt many of their seats are empty - if you're passionate enough to buy an expensive high end club membership, I reckon you go to most games.

Medallion and Access One are aimed at the corporate market. There'd be very few individuals who own them, I hazard to guess. They're not for any one sport or club, it's a reserved seat for any event whatsoever at the stadium. They cost a shiteload and one of the benefits is they're wholly reserved and wholly transferrable. You buy them for use by different people each event - yourself, employees, customers, suppliers etc etc. That's the concept.

That concept needs a high degree of flexibility. You need the option to be able to handball them off to anyone who can use them at any point. It's part of the benefit. Take away that flexibility, and less businesses would buy them. It's already very competitive for the corproate hospitality dollar. It adds value to the product when you have the ability to call someone up the day before and offer them some free premium seats.

The effect would be higher at events of lower interest because there's less demand to see them, and thus they're not as higher prized a "gift" for a business to give away to somebody.

On top of all this if you've ever been in there, many of the people are there - they're just behind the glass eating and drinking.
This and cammo78 have given the best explanations.

OP clearly doesn't understand the financial implications if Etihad just open those seats open because they aren't being used.

If I paid $5 a season for seats I'd not want to then have to inform stadium management of whether I intend to turn up to games by the Wednesday of each week - as the OP proposed earlier in the thread. I'd want to be able to turn up as and when I pleased.

I worked in the medallion club when doing Uni in Melbourne. It wouldn't have been the worst way to watch football but there was a lot of tossers in there. A lot of good people as well it should be said.

There are GA tickets on the second level as well. I usually got them when West Coast rolled into town as I didn't get too many chances to see them.
 

cammo78

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#90
Level 2 at Etihad is like Subiaco. Level 1 and 3 at Etihad is like sitting at home to further your analogy. If level 2 aren't using their property it's still in everyones interest to make those seats available.

I don't understand how a bulldogs supporter can be happy with a situation where the rank and file members, supporters and opposition supporters turn up to a ground that is largely missing it's best layer of seats.

Going to bulldogs games must be like going to the movies, except half the time of late the movie has sucked. And you can either over pay for the good seats or not. And very few choose to overpay for the good seats. I say overpay because if the seats were worth it they'd be full.

up.
Mate - why would I be unhappy?

I, like most, understand simple economics. If I want something badly enough, I'll pay top dollar for it.

If I don't have the means to do so - then I can buy the best available product that is available to someone with my budgetary constraints. And work harder to grow my income so that in future, I might be able to afford to buy a better product.

I'd love a BMW. But at the moment, my income and other commitments don't allow that luxury. So I have to make do with a Mazda, which while it achieves the same purpose as a BMW, is an inferior product at a cheaper price point. Should BMW devalue their product just to suit my circumstances? Not likely.
 

Bombermania

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#91
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who will stick up for and justify the actions of the corporates who continue to gouge money from them at every turn.
So is having a job a bad thing?

Its funny because for years the MCC which has in the past had a close relationship with the Dees has allowed empty seats at big games.

This brings me to the Medallion club, my reserve seat is on level three above them and having watched them during breaks there isn't anything that special about it, if people want to hold work functions at the footy so be it.

And as others have said the Medallion Club isn't all of level 2.
 

final fight

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#92
Simply watch the game on TV and save yourself all the fuss about good/bad seats. Dead in front on the sofa is the best seat in the house.
 

master bate

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Thread starter #93
Mate - why would I be unhappy?

I, like most, understand simple economics. If I want something badly enough, I'll pay top dollar for it.

If I don't have the means to do so - then I can buy the best available product that is available to someone with my budgetary constraints. And work harder to grow my income so that in future, I might be able to afford to buy a better product.

I'd love a BMW. But at the moment, my income and other commitments don't allow that luxury. So I have to make do with a Mazda, which while it achieves the same purpose as a BMW, is an inferior product at a cheaper price point. Should BMW devalue their product just to suit my circumstances? Not likely.
Because level 2 when the game draws a strong crowd is a BMW. Level 2 at a game that no one turns up to is clearly a Mazda.

The dogs have a lot of games that are Mazda games. If you're sitting on level 3 for Dogs v GWS you're driving a 15 year old Mazda.

The fact that no one is in level 2 for a lot of these games tells me that it would definitely be in the best interests of the clubs to get the supporters that are there in to the best seats. And I do truly believe that it would be in the best interest for the stadium. I think there are ways with modern ticketing systems and flexible arrangements to get the people in to the good seats and make more money.

I'll ask you again a question that is simpler than anything to do with economics. Why are you not upset that at a majority of Bulldogs games there is stuff all crowd in the best seats? Take off your economic and I get what I pay for hat and just think about what is best for your footy club.
 

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#95
Ok sorry if this has been covered before or others don't feel the same way. And yes being a Melbourne supporter I am a rare visitor to Etihad but I think the seating set up is a complete farce.

But 31,000 people at last nights game. And a good percentage (at least 10,000) were Melbourne fans. Melbourne filled their cheer squad end, St Kilda actually a little thin in their cheer squad end but then packed a lot of the first level with their reserved members. Plenty of others sitting up on the third level particularly around the wings supporting both teams. But the second level had pretty much tumbleweeds.

I understand that the medallion club contributes significant income for Etihad but surely there is a better way.

Imagine going to the movies and not being able to sit in the middle section of the theatre as it's kept clear for VIP's who never come. Or going to a music concert and having a VIP section in the front 5 rows with 3 people in it.

For low drawing games - which will be a lot of North, St Kilda and WB games, there has to be a way for the fans to get access to at least some of the best seats. It's a slap on the face to have them all empty whilst you sit on the top level.

Is there not some way for medallion club and other reserved 2nd level seats to be reallocated if not claimed by a certain time frame (say Thursday 5pm) and then sold off as a reasonable price general admission?

More people closer to the action would provide better atmosphere for the game, better enjoyment for the fans and may in turn increase crowds.
Couldn't a lot of the same be said of the MCC, a lot of which remains empty, even during "sell outs"?
 

cammo78

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#97
Because level 2 when the game draws a strong crowd is a BMW. Level 2 at a game that no one turns up to is clearly a Mazda.

The dogs have a lot of games that are Mazda games. If you're sitting on level 3 for Dogs v GWS you're driving a 15 year old Mazda.

The fact that no one is in level 2 for a lot of these games tells me that it would definitely be in the best interests of the clubs to get the supporters that are there in to the best seats. And I do truly believe that it would be in the best interest for the stadium. I think there are ways with modern ticketing systems and flexible arrangements to get the people in to the good seats and make more money.

I'll ask you again a question that is simpler than anything to do with economics. Why are you not upset that at a majority of Bulldogs games there is stuff all crowd in the best seats? Take off your economic and I get what I pay for hat and just think about what is best for your footy club.
Because I'm a realist, I guess. And work for what I get. I am finding it hard to dissacioate why I should be allowed to cherry pick at premium seat I haven't paid the premium on. If I'd forked out, for example, $600 for a reserved level two seat in the Dogs members area - then found I could have just bought a general admission membership and paid $180, plus $5-$10 a week to move up to level two seating (so, let's say, $300 all up for 11 home games), I'd be bloody livid and there's no way in hell that reserved seat membership would be renewed. Why would I?

Another example. Let's say I want to go to a concert. I can get a front row seat for $500, or a nosebleed seat for $100. Do you think it's right/expect the promoter to upgrade my ticket if all the front row seats remain unsold? I'd wager no, and the simple reason is that I made an informed decision on what I was prepared to spend for the product I'd receive in return.

This is no different.
 

cammo78

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#98
Couldn't a lot of the same be said of the MCC, a lot of which remains empty, even during "sell outs"?
Game. Set. Match.

It is no different at all. The MCC protect their product like no other, they'd be buggered if people could just rock up on game day and enjoy the benefits people are forking out $800 a year for simply on the basis there are seats available.
 

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#99
Because level 2 when the game draws a strong crowd is a BMW. Level 2 at a game that no one turns up to is clearly a Mazda.

The dogs have a lot of games that are Mazda games. If you're sitting on level 3 for Dogs v GWS you're driving a 15 year old Mazda.

The fact that no one is in level 2 for a lot of these games tells me that it would definitely be in the best interests of the clubs to get the supporters that are there in to the best seats. And I do truly believe that it would be in the best interest for the stadium. I think there are ways with modern ticketing systems and flexible arrangements to get the people in to the good seats and make more money.

I'll ask you again a question that is simpler than anything to do with economics. Why are you not upset that at a majority of Bulldogs games there is stuff all crowd in the best seats? Take off your economic and I get what I pay for hat and just think about what is best for your footy club.
You don't want what is best for your footy club though, because you want to deprive them of revenue. You want what is best for you.
 

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Basically the OP wants a quantity over quality model without any consideration over whether the quantity devalues the quality and whether there is enough quantity to make up the shortfall. Others who have done the sums have shown there isn't. Why do you neglect to address these posts master bate? You incapable of debating logic?
 
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