The 457 visa debacle

[Power Raid]

5m Chinese and Indians rocking up tomorrow would do what for wage suppression, hospitals, schools, transport etc? Unmitigated disaster and would offer no economic benefit to Australia.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...esenting-most-stunning-number-may-jobs-report

... and why wage growth has gone precisely nowhere, is because the vast majority of all jobs since December 2007, or 75% to be specific, have gone to foreign-born workers, a verifiable fact. What is unknown is how many of these millions of "foreign-born" jobs have gone to illegal immigrant who are perfectly willing to work hard, and yet whose wage bargaining power is absolutely nil (after all they are happy just to have a job) thereby leading to depressed wages for native-born workers in comparable jobs, resulting in wage growth which over the past 8 years has been non-existant

I think you missed the qualification of "that said, this is all a pipe dream until we harmonise our framework."

it will take sometime for us to achieve this but it will happen

 

[medusala]

I think you missed the qualification of "that said, this is all a pipe dream until we harmonise our framework."

it will take sometime for us to achieve this but it will happen

Won't happen. Why would Asian countries want to harmonise with high tax Europe? Even within Europe Ireland and the UK are dead against it.

Countries cant even agree on a global carbon trading system let alone the rest of it. A system to allow freedom of movement would be exceptionally unpopular. People wouldn't stand for it, it would be an utter disaster.

 

[Power Raid]

Won't happen. Why would Asian countries want to harmonise with high tax Europe? Even within Europe Ireland and the UK are dead against it.

Countries cant even agree on a global carbon trading system let alone the rest of it. A system to allow freedom of movement would be exceptionally unpopular. People wouldn't stand for it, it would be an utter disaster.

its already happening

 

[medusala]

its already happening

EU tried to force Ireland in to tax harmonisation got told to get stuffed. They keep talking about it but it wont happen. Freedom of movement is so unpopular that its caused a UK referendum. And that is just within Europe.

ZERO chance Australia will ever sign up to freedom of movement with the third world.

 

[Power Raid]

EU tried to force Ireland in to tax harmonisation got told to get stuffed. They keep talking about it but it wont happen. Freedom of movement is so unpopular that its caused a UK referendum. And that is just within Europe.

ZERO chance Australia will ever sign up to freedom of movement with the third world.

you're right but have you noticed the third world is emerging thanks to globalisation. Further the pressures are also there for harmonisation via a number of different mechanism.

So yes we won't with the third world now but we will sign with these countries in the future.

The concept of nations won't exist for much longer. How many years old is the notion of nations? how old is the oldest nation?

In time we will look back and giggle at the fad.

 

[medusala]

The concept of nations won't exist for much longer.

In time we will look back and giggle at the fad.

Lol. EU / EURO has worked ever so well hasn't it?

 

[Power Raid]

Lol. EU / EURO has worked ever so well hasn't it?

You seem to be hung up about the present. The future is an amazing place and that is where we are headed.

Oh and think about why the euro isn't working well and you will understand what needs to be done to make a global system work.

 

[Power Raid]

Out of interest do you think china is better than Europe? As Chinese need visas to move within China?

So please stick to relevant debates as other irrelevant facts like China can be introduced.

 

[Bollox]

Australia cant attract the best talent in finance because pay and taxes are higher os eg London, NY, Hong Kong, Singapore. Australia would be the leading finance centre in Asia if the top rate was cut to 25/30%

A mate of mine who works for JP Morgan looked at migrating to Australia a few years ago but didn't have the required points yet had he been a baker or hairdresser would have got in.

"skilled immigration". Yep sure. I agree entirely with you ie its not inherently bad but does need urgent reform.

That is one hellishly long bow you draw.
Even back in the 80's when Morgans was just another bucket shop in Sydney they had a large proportion of yanks in their office here.
There could be a hundred reasons your "mate" was knocked back...including on the basis of his company having a high representation of yanks or any other 457 entries already in Aust. Could be any one of a hundred reasons, including his own company being suspended for abusing the system. Who knows hey.

If he was smart, well educated, experienced, youngish, fluent in english..and he came from a country on the ok list ..there isnt a great deal standing in their way to bringing him in. Afterall if say "off balance sheet trader" doesnt appear on the consolidated occupations list then they could always call him "accounts executive" or whatever. If "bank teller" isnt on the cso list they are deliberately saying we have enough and cant justify taking away jobs for aussies. The system is there for a reason and does work pretty well.

You informed him there are other ways he could migrate to Aust i trust ? 457 isnt the only way is it ?

The idea is to TARGET the young smart professional, except in areas that are saturated/not required..i.e cherry pick what we need. So something tells me your mate may have left out an important part of the reason he couldnt get a 457 entry. Might be as simple as his own Syd office not wanting to sponsor him.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I went to a seafood processing facility this week and was watching the Thai vs NZ vs Aussie workers. It was clear the Thais on 457 were much much better in terms of speed, quality and care.

This is where it gets tough. We clearly don't need 457s in fish filleting but at the same time it is clear why we do.

Do we bring in 457s to train our locals or do we let food processing move overseas. Apparantly it is cheaper to fresh Aussie catch, ship it to Vietnam, thaw it out, process it, refreeze, bring back to Oz, thaw it out and sell it as "fresh" in coles than do it here. 457 workers tilt it back in our favour. So what do we do?

disclosure: I do not have an interest in seafood but wish I did.

i think that's where true in advertising solves the entire debate, if its 3 months old it isn't fresh don't pretend it is. its disgusting that coles and woolies can sell fruit that's over 12 months old as "fresh"

 

[Power Raid]

i think that's where true in advertising solves the entire debate, if its 3 months old it isn't fresh don't pretend it is. its disgusting that coles and woolies can sell fruit that's over 12 months old as "fresh"

true

surely that is misleading and deceptive by any measure

 

[medusala]

You seem to be hung up about the present. The future is an amazing place and that is where we are headed.

Greeks /PIGS, Euro and future. Not so amazing.

That is one hellishly long bow you draw.

No its not. He wasn't transferring within company. Quite different.

 

[Juddism]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4268630.htm

here we go again..

 

[Slax]

Lol. EU / EURO has worked ever so well hasn't it?

And the long term outlook for the Australian is just oh so rosy. Would much rather be in the EU position at least they have a future not sure what Australia's is, this government has shut down projects and industries which offered future growth like renewables and the NBN.

 

[Bollox]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4268630.htm

here we go again..

here we go again on what ?
relevance ?

 

[Juddism]

here we go again on what ?
relevance ?

workers being exploited by shitty employers.

 

[Bollox]

workers being exploited by shitty employers.

Hmmmm yes, i see.
An overseas national here on a 1yr working holiday visa feels her work conditions werent up to scratch by a local employer.
Things must be bad...i feel ashamed of our nation.
Bloody gumments fault i reckon.

Still a bit unsure what on earth it has to do with 457 visa's though....but not to worry, if Bill Shorten becomes PM we will rapidly see an end to this shocking and ongoing 10,000 year old problem.

 

[Maggie5]

Hmmmm yes, i see.
An overseas national here on a 1yr working holiday visa feels her work conditions werent up to scratch by a local employer.
Things must be bad...i feel ashamed of our nation.
Bloody gumments fault i reckon.

Still a bit unsure what on earth it has to do with 457 visa's though....but not to worry, if Bill Shorten becomes PM we will rapidly see an end to this shocking and ongoing 10,000 year old problem.

10,000 year old problem? About time it was fixed then, right?
Blame the unions, why not, they are the first to be blamed.

I wonder whether you even read the story or saw the 4 Corners episode, but hey, who cares, they are only visitors to this country earning a few extra bucks.
Fodder for business!

 

[Juddism]

Hmmmm yes, i see.
An overseas national here on a 1yr working holiday visa feels her work conditions werent up to scratch by a local employer.
Things must be bad...i feel ashamed of our nation.
Bloody gumments fault i reckon.

Still a bit unsure what on earth it has to do with 457 visa's though....but not to worry, if Bill Shorten becomes PM we will rapidly see an end to this shocking and ongoing 10,000 year old problem.

visa issues. perhaps there was another thread but I cannot find it.

 

[Play by Numbers]

visa issues. perhaps there was another thread but I cannot find it.

Bollox sister is just another dodgy employer.

Any harm to Australia is excusable so long as they have easily exploitable labour.

 

[medusala]

And the long term outlook for the Australian is just oh so rosy. Would much rather be in the EU position at least they have a future not sure what Australia's is, this government has shut down projects and industries which offered future growth like renewables and the NBN.

You must be kidding, the EU is in all sorts of trouble. The PIGS are stuffed and even supposedly healthy countries like France have huge issues re debt and insolvent banks

Renewables don't offer future growth, they * it (unless they are cost competitive). Australia would be far better off cutting all subsidies and instead lowering the co tax rate.

 

[Bollox]

Bollox sister is just another dodgy employer.

Any harm to Australia is excusable so long as they have easily exploitable labour.

Low self esteem creepy stalker type number 564536.

 

[CM86]

Low self esteem creepy stalker type number 564536.

So... he isn't wrong?

 

[Slax]

You must be kidding, the EU is in all sorts of trouble. The PIGS are stuffed and even supposedly healthy countries like France have huge issues re debt and insolvent banks

Renewables don't offer future growth, they ****** it (unless they are cost competitive). Australia would be far better off cutting all subsidies and instead lowering the co tax rate.

Can't see Abbott doing that, they pumped tens of billions into the automotive industry over the last 25 years and they still went belly up. Now to make manufacturing worse they go and want to get subs built in Japan (which we don't need anyway) which will cost just as much as building them here but we get no jobs or economic benefit from it.

Abbott is an economic disaster.

 

[medusala]

Abbott is an economic disaster.

He scrapped mining and carbon tax. He gets a big tick for that. Otherwise he is no different to the last lot ie wasting billions in spending, wont cut taxes, fix IR etc