The 457 visa debacle

I found it interesting that the company that owned the Australian rights to 7Eleven also owned the Australian rights to the Starbucks brand, a brand that has noticeably failed here. I wonder if their franchise model wasn't profitable having to pay Australian residents award wages, and conditions at Starbucks, while they screw these poor foreign students in to the ground at 7Eleven.
 
I found a 457 discussion thread from 2007 over here and posted in there regarding the latest news, but didn't realise it wasn't in Aus Politics so apologies for the cross-post. Obviously this is something that people on all sides of politics are concerned about, so it'd be good to chat about it without the illogical LNP talking point that claims talking about a Chinese FTA is racist.

4 Corners tonight reveals how student visa holders are exploited because they work over the hours their Visa allows and so then can be held over a barrell by employers who do them over with underpaying them or making them work much longer hours than end up on their pay slip.

I personally know this also happens with 457s, so I was disappointed when it was brought up under the last Labor govt that the narrative the media ran with was that there wasn't one example of 457 exploitation. It seemed obvious living in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs where there are so many 457 workers. Illegal work practices, money withheld, promises of promotion or wage rises that never come, etc. References are often made up by people going for 457s and they aren't checked by the regulators.

Surely these concerns should feed into the current discussion of the Chinese FTA that allows Chinese companies to bring in workers if they advertise and can't find locals to do that job. I know bar staff in Sydney on 457s. Hard to believe you can't find a local to do that.

Comn Ratts; please explain why a FTA should outline visa policy and employment laws? Surely you would understand that separate pieces of legislation is the way to handle this or do you really think every FTA should have its own employment law and visa policy enshrined within it?

Are you being mischievous, simply lacking common sense or just following today's instructions?
 
I found it interesting that the company that owned the Australian rights to 7Eleven also owned the Australian rights to the Starbucks brand, a brand that has noticeably failed here. I wonder if their franchise model wasn't profitable having to pay Australian residents award wages, and conditions at Starbucks, while they screw these poor foreign students in to the ground at 7Eleven.

Who owns the stores? I hope they feel the full weight of the law.

We need to weed out operators like this.
 

Ratts of Tobruk

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Comn Ratts; please explain why a FTA should outline visa policy and employment laws? Surely you would understand that separate pieces of legislation is the way to handle this or do you really think every FTA should have its own employment law and visa policy enshrined within it?

Are you being mischievous, simply lacking common sense or just following today's instructions?
More misleading guff from PR. You always are desperate for attention.

It is the current govt and the Chinese FTA that is 'outlining different employment laws', not me. That is why it's relevant to this discussion.

And perhaps watch or read the 4 Corners story before making comments so you understand who is involved. Now please try to only bother me when you have something legitimate to talk about that you have researched, not when you just want to push your made-up narrative about me.
 
More misleading guff from PR. You always are desperate for attention.

It is the current govt and the Chinese FTA that is 'outlining different employment laws', not me. That is why it's relevant to this discussion.

And perhaps watch or read the 4 Corners story before making comments so you understand who is involved. Now please try to only bother me when you have something legitimate to talk about that you have researched, not when you just want to push your made-up narrative about me.

answer the question........do you want to have immigration and employment law enshrined in every FTA so we have different rules for different nations?

lol
 
answer the question........do you want to have immigration and employment law enshrined in every FTA so we have different rules for different nations?

lol
Do you want jobs going to foreign citizens whilst Australia has the highest unemployment rate this country has seen for a very long time?
 

Ratts of Tobruk

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So? If the company can't stay in business without breaking the law then they shouldn't be in business.

Keeping silent simply perpetuates any problems.
I don't think you would get your mates deported either, especially when they're still owed $, but I could be wrong. Instead of a direct dobbing-in, I joined the call for regulators to actually do their job properly and check on 457 applications and inspect higher-risk businesses.
answer the question........do you want to have immigration and employment law enshrined in every FTA so we have different rules for different nations?

lol
So you didn't comprehend the original issue or my response to you. Unsurprising. Or are you LOLing at your own trolling?

And so you can't fill the thread with more bilge, I will answer your repeated irrelevant question: No.
 
Do you want jobs going to foreign citizens whilst Australia has the highest unemployment rate this country has seen for a very long time?

no (but not because they are foreign but rather I would like to see more people employed and participating); however the FTA should be assessed on its own merits and not the lies and deception created by mischievous people.


oh and I think my calls of increasing debt and higher unemployment are starting to come true. Wait until we start paying it down and we will really see the pain. Unfortunately we will see this trend until we address our issues being debt and IR.
 
no (but not because they are foreign); however the FTA should be assessed on its own merits and not the lies and deception created by mischievous people.
oh and I think my calls of increasing debt and higher unemployment are starting to come true. Wait until we start paying it down and we will really see the pain. Unfortunately we will see this trend until we address our issues being debt and IR.
You are listening carefully enough to what the unions and Labor is saying. It is not the FTA, it is the underpinning legislation that will allow for companies to bring in their own workforce and not to the same regulations and conditions of Australian workers.

Yep this government has certainly stuffed up generations to come, forget about baby boomers it will all about this government.
 
You are listening carefully enough to what the unions and Labor is saying. It is not the FTA, it is the underpinning legislation that will allow for companies to bring in their own workforce and not to the same regulations and conditions of Australian workers.

Yep this government has certainly stuffed up generations to come, forget about baby boomers it will all about this government.

then present that legislation for debate. where is it? or is it just imagination?
 

GuruJane

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Do you want jobs going to foreign citizens whilst Australia has the highest unemployment rate this country has seen for a very long time?

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I found it interesting that the company that owned the Australian rights to 7Eleven also owned the Australian rights to the Starbucks brand, a brand that has noticeably failed here. I wonder if their franchise model wasn't profitable having to pay Australian residents award wages, and conditions at Starbucks, while they screw these poor foreign students in to the ground at 7Eleven.

The failure of Starbucks in Australia is actually a really interesting case study in failed marketing and not adapting the different market environment.

It basically boiled down to Starbucks coming to a mature coffee market and trying to sell their coffee flavored milkshakes a the best coffee in the world.

Their first store opened in Lygon Street in the middle of little Italy. You can imagine how their boasting went down.

Some interesting articles on it:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2008-08-07/32188
 

ClokesShankedIt

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I found it interesting that the company that owned the Australian rights to 7Eleven also owned the Australian rights to the Starbucks brand, a brand that has noticeably failed here. I wonder if their franchise model wasn't profitable having to pay Australian residents award wages, and conditions at Starbucks, while they screw these poor foreign students in to the ground at 7Eleven.

Sounds about right
 

ClokesShankedIt

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Lives again on this board.

What's wrong with the basic idea that the laws and economy of Australia exist for the betterment of the Australian people.

If unemployment is ticking up, then slash the # of 457s being handed out. Seems rather straightforward. If business need to be forced to invest in their existing staff and provide training, then so be it.

Bet you think the Chinese buying up our houses is a good thing too?
 
then present that legislation for debate. where is it? or is it just imagination?
I am not in in government and I don't believe that the FTA has been released to the public yet. Nice try.
 
images


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One day you will actually address the topic instead of living in your glass house.

Have you been following Dutton and the possible changes? Is that enough evidence for you?
 

Lebbo73

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Do you want jobs going to foreign citizens whilst Australia has the highest unemployment rate this country has seen for a very long time?
An unemployment rate that even Chris Bowen forecast when he was Treasurer. Actually, unemployment is at 6.1% and Mr Bowen forecast that it would be 6.25%. I would bet my bottom dollar that he didn't expect that the participation rate would increase as well.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6202.0

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/labor-force-participation-rate
 
An unemployment rate that even Chris Bowen forecast when he was Treasurer. Actually, unemployment is at 6.1% and Mr Bowen forecast that it would be 6.25%. I would bet my bottom dollar that he didn't expect that the participation rate would increase as well.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6202.0

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/labor-force-participation-rate
I think that this article explains it better
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...th-record-surprise-jumps-20150806-gistc0.html
 
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