The 50 Greatest 20 years on. Who's in? Who's out?

[fidstar]

He's miles better than Chris Paul. Basketball isnt just about numbers and stats. A lot of it is in the head and in the heart. Isiah had that in spades. CP3 is a mental midget. You'd never back CP3 over Isiah Thomas in a 7 game series.

Anyways, this argument can go back and forth. The bottom line is that Isiah was the star player on a team that won back to back championships right in the middle of Magic/Bird/Jordan. That right there is ridiculous.

You can say it was team defence and team basketball but how far do the Pistons get without Isiah? They get nowhere near the title.

Not sure why Isiah never get's his due. Stockton won nothing. Chris Paul has won nothing. Isiah, for me, is the 2nd best PG of all time.

You do realize they wouldn't have won it without Joe, Rodman or even Lambeer. Take good players out of any championship team and none of them win. Take Pippen out of the Bulls and MJ probably only wins a couple (if that).

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I also find it hilarious that you say Stockton isn't in because he can't score, but then say Rodman is in.

It's pretty simple really.

If you beat Jordan or played with Jordan, you're in.

 

[fidstar]

It's pretty simple really.

If you beat Jordan or played with Jordan, you're in.

Congratulation Luc Longley!

 

[jod23]

Great player, and a very important player for his championship teams no doubt. But he'd probably just sneak in a Top 100 team of all time.

I also find it hilarious that you say Stockton isn't in because he can't score, but then say Rodman is in.

Fair point, but I think Rodman was GOAT at rebounding. To be the GOAT at something deserves some thought. He also won 5 championships to Stockton's donut.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

I'm sorry jod23 but Stockton was far better than Rodman. Stockton is top 50 without a doubt, Rodman top 100.

 

[jod23]

I'm sorry jod23 but Stockton was far better than Rodman. Stockton is top 50 without a doubt, Rodman top 100.

Probably.

Anyone gonna actually attempt a new top 50? With in's and out's?

 

[Always Ballin]

Top 10 GOAT list

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Duncan
7. Lebron
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Kobe

Shaq is at that position because people seem to forget he was notorious for missing games, even in his prime. He had a very good peak, but despite all that, he was always a liability due to his FT shooting, and he fell off pretty fast in the tail end of his career... Still a top 10er, but I see way too many people ranking him around 6-7... If it were most impactful player, it would be MJ, Lebron and Shaq, then the rest... But Greatest really demands sustained excellence and an adherence to more factors. Many would think Lebron is too high, but he has the accolades to back it up... I could go on for awhile, but it will all be irrelevant pretty soon because Lebron still have 3 or so strong years left in him, and playing with a strong ass cast. he can Magic Johnson that s**t all the way to late 30's... Dude could turn into a Magic-Malone hybrid.... Essentially what he is now

 

[PP34]

Haven't read the whole thread but how the hell is Nowitzki a lock over Garnett?

The way Dirk has been overrated since that finals run is quite absurd.

Why are Iverson and Pierce locks. I get Garnett for sure. I think it's borderline for Peirce, Iverson probably a better show.

Wade is surely in by now.

Go check Paul Pierce's stats. Comparable with the great Kobe Bryant. Criminally underrated as he wasted away on mediocre Celtics teams during his prime. His longevity nowadays is also something to behold. Also a killer in the clutch. There's guys in there with lesser stats and accolades.

 

[jod23]

Haven't read the whole thread but how the hell is Nowitzki a lock over Garnett?

The way Dirk has been overrated since that finals run is quite absurd.

Go check Paul Pierce's stats. Comparable with the great Kobe Bryant. Criminally underrated as he wasted away on mediocre Celtics teams during his prime. His longevity nowadays is also something to behold. Also a killer in the clutch. There's guys in there with lesser stats and accolades.

You're probably right. Obviously a lot of the older guys, their legends grow in retirement and you take guys like The Truth for granted.

Will say one thing though, Dirk >> Garnett.

 

[PP34]

You're probably right. Obviously a lot of the older guys, their legends grow in retirement and you take guys like The Truth for granted.

Will say one thing though, Dirk >> Garnett.

Whys that

 

[jod23]

Whys that

He's just a better player. Garnett is great but Dirk was just another level up. What a player and what he could do at his size was crazy.

 

[fidstar]

Threw together, probably missing someone...

1. MJ
2. Lebron
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Kobe
12. Karl Malone (I'm expecting a lot of love for this)
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Moses Malone
15. John Stockton
16. Jerry West
17. Julius Erving
18. Elgin Baylor
19. Dirk Nowitzki
20. Bob Pettit
21. Will Perdue

 

[jod23]

K.Malone that high? Why?

Barkley was better. K.Malone makes it but he is more 40-50 range IMO.

 

[PP34]

He's just a better player. Garnett is great but Dirk was just another level up. What a player and what he could do at his size was crazy.

Wrong. Garnett defensively is up there with the likes of Duncan and Olajuwon.

Offensively, for the majority of his career he was just as useful as Dirk. Later on, Dirk was simply the go to man while Garnett wasn't.

There is no way Nowitzki is on another level to Garnett. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[DEVO]

Out: Michael Jordan.

In: Lauren Jackson

 

[fidstar]

K.Malone that high? Why?

Barkley was better. K.Malone makes it but he is more 40-50 range IMO.

I even wrote that people wouldn't agree. He dude was a machine. I think he is completely underrated in the scheme off things.

 

[jod23]

I even wrote that people wouldn't agree. He dude was a machine. I think he is completely underrated in the scheme off things.

Not sure about that. He was spoonfed by Stockton his entire career. Barkley could tear teams apart on his own. He was a force in his Philly/Phoenix days. Malone was more steady and consistent rather than a force to be reckoned with.

 

[jod23]

Wrong. Garnett defensively is up there with the likes of Duncan and Olajuwon.

Offensively, for the majority of his career he was just as useful as Dirk. Later on, Dirk was simply the go to man while Garnett wasn't.

There is no way Nowitzki is on another level to Garnett. Quite the opposite actually.

Garnett is certainly the better defender. I cant explain it other than just saying, if I was starting a team from scratch and had to choose between Garnett and Dirk. Id take Dirk.

 

[fidstar]

Not sure about that. He was spoonfed by Stockton his entire career. Barkley could tear teams apart on his own. He was a force in his Philly/Phoenix days. Malone was more steady and consistent rather than a force to be reckoned with.

Barkley certainly could and he'd be in my 20-25 range (though I note it did become harder and harder as you got outside the Top 10).

Like I said I thought it would be unpopular he was so high, but it's where I think he is. I did write "dude was a machine", which fits with your "Malone was more steady and consistent". Barkley wasn't always the best team mate and not always consistent with output/effort. It's reflected in his 4 x Top 5 MVP finishes to Malone's 9.

 

[PP34]

Garnett is certainly the better defender. I cant explain it other than just saying, if I was starting a team from scratch and had to choose between Garnett and Dirk. Id take Dirk.

You'd rather a one way player? That really doesn't make sense.

 

[jod23]

You'd rather a one way player? That really doesn't make sense.

No but id rather a player who is great. Garnett granted didnt get much help in Minnesota but to get his ring, he had to join Peirce and Allen and create a big three. Dirk on the other hand was the star, the go to man. The driving force. He didnt have a lot of help in Dallas either but he got them over the line.

There is just something about Dirk, he's a great player.

They both comfortably make the top 50 of all time if redone today. Dirk would be higher on my list though.

 

[jod23]

Barkley certainly could and he'd be in my 20-25 range (though I note it did become harder and harder as you got outside the Top 10).

Like I said I thought it would be unpopular he was so high, but it's where I think he is. I did write "dude was a machine", which fits with your "Malone was more steady and consistent". Barkley wasn't always the best team mate and not always consistent with output/effort. It's reflected in his 4 x Top 5 MVP finishes to Malone's 9.

So you want to reward consistency over top end. Malone was definitely more consistent and better for longer. But both in their prime, it's Barkley all day long IMO. For me, Barkley is miles ahead of Malone. Barkley top 20-25. Malone 40-50.

I really should do my own list.

 

[fidstar]

So you want to reward consistency over top end. Malone was definitely more consistent and better for longer. But both in their prime, it's Barkley all day long IMO. For me, Barkley is miles ahead of Malone. Barkley top 20-25. Malone 40-50.

I really should do my own list.

But the list is for a complete career, not just peak. If we are looking at peak, Shaq just might be number 2.

 

[jod23]

But the list is for a complete career, not just peak. If we are looking at peak, Shaq just might be number 2.

Tough to judge. You need a little of both. Whole career but obviously judge them at their best also. I think Barkley's best was better than Malone's but Malone stayed elite for longer.

Tough to choose.

 

[fidstar]

Tough to judge. You need a little of both. Whole career but obviously judge them at their best also. I think Barkley's best was better than Malone's but Malone stayed elite for longer.

Tough to choose.

Peak will obviously come into it.

You have always used "chasing championships" by teaming up with others as a negative for Garnett and LeBron when putting them on GOAT lists. Surely Barkley is in exactly the same basket as those two when comparing him to Malone (even if he didn't win one).

fwiw I have Garnett>Dirk, though it's not by much.