Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

Chief

110% sass!
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Posts
73,476
Likes
43,498
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Admin #901
On Thursday, Alabama plans to end inmate Michael Samra’s life by lethal injection.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Off topic, but did you see John Oliver’s segment on lethal injection?

Doctors won’t do it, nor will they supply the drugs.

So it’s left to unqualified people, who in at least one case sourced the drugs illegally.

Then there is improper administration leaving the victim in pain for extended periods of time, failures... the list goes on.

It’s a horror show.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,836
Likes
35,852
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #902
What is your evidence to support that?

After IVF we had several viable embryos left in storage. We were legally not able to give them to other couples so they were destroyed.

We did consider what we were doing and there was a small emotional component, but in the end we weren’t having more kids and we had gone through the best ones to get our son. End of story.

Honestly you lose more genetic material down the plug hole using a loofah in the shower than you do taking embryos out of storage.
Evidence to support that life begins at conception? That's when your DNA is formed, prior to that point it didn't exist, beyond that point it grows into a person.

I can't find another point along the development of a human that better suits as the start point than the point at which the process starts.

I actually think IVF is great, it's something I'm looking into and I'm very happy you've got your boy. I know how much pain can be found in trying and not succeeding.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,836
Likes
35,852
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #903
Off topic, but did you see John Oliver’s segment on lethal injection?

Doctors won’t do it, nor will they supply the drugs.

So it’s left to unqualified people, who in at least one case sourced the drugs illegally.

Then there is improper administration leaving the victim in pain for extended periods of time, failures... the list goes on.

It’s a horror show.
It is. All for trying to find a clean, sanitary way to make something violent like ending a life look humane.

I wonder if there would be less execution if it had to be via guillotine, blood-eagle or firing squad. That audience gallery might have a different opinion if it more resembled a butchering.

Or maybe those who want revenge will feel like it's more appropriate, then hopefully get help for themselves.
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Posts
6,195
Likes
5,532
Location
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Posts
6,535
Likes
8,064
AFL Club
Fremantle
Weird:

Q: Does the new New York law allow full-term abortions?
A: The law permits abortions after 24 weeks if a health care professional determines the health or life of the mother is at risk, or the fetus is not viable.


https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/addressing-new-yorks-new-abortion-law/
Notice how health is categorically distinct from life. So what is health in that context?

What risks to a mother’s health are there, that do not threaten her life, which require a full term baby being aborted instead of birth. Think about what is required to abort a full term baby: an operation like a caesarean.

What is the threshold for “health”? Look into that and you have your answer.
 

Contra Mundum

To Know Nothing is the Happiest Life
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Posts
22,018
Likes
8,824
Location
North Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
NMFC
Off topic, but did you see John Oliver’s segment on lethal injection?

Doctors won’t do it, nor will they supply the drugs.

So it’s left to unqualified people, who in at least one case sourced the drugs illegally.

Then there is improper administration leaving the victim in pain for extended periods of time, failures... the list goes on.

It’s a horror show.
I know - if the majority of the Supremes was progressive they would ban it using the Constitutional guarantee against Cruel and Unusual punishment - no chance in after Kavanaugh


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Posts
73,476
Likes
43,498
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Admin #907
Alabama isn't that big, 3~ hours in any direction driving and you are in a different state
For someone without much money, that’s time off work, petrol, maybe an overnight stay in a motel, maybe child minding.

And that’s if they can get an appointment.

And if they don’t have a car it’s buses and or trains and or taxis making a three hour each way trip a lot longer and more expensive.

They piss and moan about extra costs due to Big Government but then go and do this **** to their own people.
 

Maggie5

Spec Moderator
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Posts
35,679
Likes
32,484
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #908
For mine the easiest solution to cut down on abortions is for all males (for underage, parents consent) to undergo vasectomy (set in law) as soon as they start producing sperm. They can also at the same time ask for sperm to be frozen to be used at a later date if they wish.

At a later date they can have the procedure reversed if they wish to have children via intercourse.

No need to force females to carry unwanted pregnancies, reduce mental and physical health issues to either the child or female, reduce cost and other expenses related to the abortion. No need for females to put their career on hold for nine months or more.
 

quotemokc

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Posts
12,210
Likes
13,485
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Atlanta Falcons/Winnipeg Jets
For mine the easiest solution to cut down on abortions is for all males (for underage, parents consent) to undergo vasectomy (set in law) as soon as they start producing sperm. They can also at the same time ask for sperm to be frozen to be used at a later date if they wish.

At a later date they can have the procedure reversed if they wish to have children via intercourse.

No need to force females to carry unwanted pregnancies, reduce mental and physical health issues to either the child or female, reduce cost and other expenses related to the abortion. No need for females to put their career on hold for nine months or more.
How is that the "easiest'?
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,836
Likes
35,852
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #911
How is that the "easiest'?
It doesn't require anyone to change their behavior, it doesn't require any invasive surgery for the girls having their tubes tied, it allows the spirit of Sanger to continue her work by later denying black men the reversal.

She was a raging racist. She would have loved it.

For clarity, I'm talking about Margaret Sanger, not Maggie.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

samFFC

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Posts
10,164
Likes
7,462
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fulham, 76ers, Cubs, Bills
Steven Sears, one of the attorneys, said the inmate received a denial of clemency from Gov. Kay Ivey's office several hours earlier Thursday. Sears said he had gained hope on Wednesday when Ivey talked about the sanctity of life in signing a bill to virtually outlaw abortion in the state.​

"Today my hopes were dashed. I guess she didn't mean it," he said after the execution.​
 

quotemokc

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Posts
12,210
Likes
13,485
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Atlanta Falcons/Winnipeg Jets
Steven Sears, one of the attorneys, said the inmate received a denial of clemency from Gov. Kay Ivey's office several hours earlier Thursday. Sears said he had gained hope on Wednesday when Ivey talked about the sanctity of life in signing a bill to virtually outlaw abortion in the state.​


"Today my hopes were dashed. I guess she didn't mean it," he said after the execution.​
Taking the side of someone who premeditated the murder of 4 people over an innocent unborn child?
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Posts
415
Likes
518
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
For mine the easiest solution to cut down on abortions is for all males (for underage, parents consent) to undergo vasectomy (set in law) as soon as they start producing sperm. They can also at the same time ask for sperm to be frozen to be used at a later date if they wish.

At a later date they can have the procedure reversed if they wish to have children via intercourse.

No need to force females to carry unwanted pregnancies, reduce mental and physical health issues to either the child or female, reduce cost and other expenses related to the abortion. No need for females to put their career on hold for nine months or more.
The government has no more right to force a man to have a vasectomy than it does to force a woman to take birth control/have their tubes tied. The government does, however, have the right to tell both men and women that if they do not take the necessary precautions to avoid falling pregnant then they do not have the right to murder that human because it is an inconvenience.
 
Joined
May 2, 2019
Posts
156
Likes
142
AFL Club
GWS
The government has no more right to force a man to have a vasectomy than it does to force a woman to take birth control/have their tubes tied. The government does, however, have the right to tell both men and women that if they do not take the necessary precautions to avoid falling pregnant then they do not have the right to murder that human because it is an inconvenience.
and in the case of a rape?
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Posts
415
Likes
518
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
and in the case of a rape?
Knowing that this opens me up to being called a piece of ****, giving anyone who disagrees an excuse to back out of any kind of debate:
The only time abortion is justified is when the pregnancy is seriously risking the life of the mother, or when the child is going to be born with a serious disability. The fact that a child was conceived by rape, as horrible as that situation is, does not justify it's murder.
 
Joined
May 2, 2019
Posts
156
Likes
142
AFL Club
GWS
Knowing that this opens me up to being called a piece of ****, giving anyone who disagrees an excuse to back out of any kind of debate:
The only time abortion is justified is when the pregnancy is seriously risking the life of the mother, or when the child is going to be born with a serious disability. The fact that a child was conceived by rape, as horrible as that situation is, does not justify it's murder.
It's still a life. If you want to end a life over it, DNA test the child and take the father's.
IMO the welfare of the woman in the woman is the utmost importance if a rape has taken place. Any or all means to get her back on an even keel psychologically should be available to her. If that involves aborting then so be it.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Posts
415
Likes
518
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
IMO the welfare of the woman in the woman is the utmost importance if a rape has taken place. Any or all means to get her back on an even keel psychologically should be available to her. If that involves aborting then so be it.
If you don't mind, let's cut through all the excess baggage and get down to the core issue. I don't think you would be okay with murdering a 2 year old that is the product of rape in order to help the mother's psychological state, so the core issue is that you don't see a fetus as human. Am I off the mark at all?
 
Joined
May 2, 2019
Posts
156
Likes
142
AFL Club
GWS
If you don't mind, let's cut through all the excess baggage and get down to the core issue. I don't think you would be okay with murdering a 2 year old that is the product of rape in order to help the mother's psychological state, so the core issue is that you don't see a fetus as human. Am I off the mark at all?
Depending on how old the fetus is. I'm not 100% for or against abortion. I tend towards 1st trimester ok and anything after is medically related (incl treatment of rape victims).
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Posts
415
Likes
518
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Depending on how old the fetus is. I'm not 100% for or against abortion. I tend towards 1st trimester ok and anything after is medically related (incl treatment of rape victims).
Ask me before I'd really challenged my own beliefs on the issue a few months ago and I'd agree with you. The question is why? Why is it okay to end it's life at 10 weeks but not 20? It's not good enough to just say "well 10 weeks just doesn't feel as bad".

We can't decide whether or not it's acceptable to end a life based on gut feelings and emotions. Decisions like these need to be decided upon based on a rationale and evidence, otherwise we're all just wasting our time.
 
Top Bottom