Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

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ShanDog

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Yes I will cop that.

But when the stated motivation doesn’t match the actions of the lawmakers and supporters of the law, what comes next?

You look at what they claim to be the source of their moral framework.
And it's absolutely fair to question that. I just wouldn't be game to be so definitive.
 

HairyO

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All I am asking is: Why would religious people be motivated to control women?

Whether you believe it or not, why might they want legal control?
Why just religious people? For most of history its been men irrespective of religion.

And Im sure you know why too.
 

0utsider

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Lol
Do you eat cucumbers?
That’s life,right or wrong?
This sums up the arguments of the pro-choice side of the argument. Lazy and easy. The only reason they get away with it is because they have the majority backing them ready to jump on their high horse and end any kind of debate when it gets too difficult under the guise of not wanting to engage with “hate-speech” and “fascists”.
 
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It wouldn't stray from any scientific definition. I think if we're being honest with ourselves, you can't argue that as soon as a fertilised egg starts splitting the cells and multiplying that isn't life. It's just reality.

But that's not the real question. The real question is: at what point do we consider a growing baby inside the womb a person with the same Universal rights as everyone else? That's the tricky one. On one side you have the extreme position of Alabama which you can defend in principle but at the expense of sense and pragmatism. On the other hand we've got NY who open the door for disregarding the rights of a baby that can easily live outside the womb (with support) for very flimsy reasons.

Somewhere between these two makes sense.
There is no consensus on when a fetus becomes a human. The majority of pro lifers opinion is based on their religious beliefs. The abortion debate is an assault on democracy when you think that your opinions and, deals with your god, carry any weight is a woman's life choices.

Some people are naive and stupid and they aren't intelligent enough to understand that if we don't have supreme agency over our own bodies then we aren't living in a democracy, we're living in a fascist state.

Other people absolutely understand that pro life means ultimate control over women. Which is why they have had think tanks and been strategising on this issue for 5 decades. They know EXACTLY what this means. Handmaids tale.

This decision lies with the woman and obviously she will discuss with her people. Anyone that thinks that the govt has a right to legislate on this issue needs to NEVER call themselves a libertarian. Lol fk no.
 

0utsider

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There is no consensus on when a fetus becomes a human. The majority of pro lifers opinion is based on their religious beliefs. The abortion debate is an assault on democracy when you think that your opinions and, deals with your god, carry any weight is a woman's life choices.

Some people are naive and stupid and they aren't intelligent enough to understand that if we don't have supreme agency over our own bodies then we aren't living in a democracy, we're living in a fascist state.

Other people absolutely understand that pro life means ultimate control over women. Which is why they have had think tanks and been strategising on this issue for 5 decades. They know EXACTLY what this means. Handmaids tale.

This decision lies with the woman and obviously she will discuss with her people. Anyone that thinks that the govt has a right to legislate on this issue needs to NEVER call themselves a libertarian. Lol fk no.
Ridiculous. Libertarians don’t believe in the right to murder. The government should have no right to control our actions to the extent that they don’t impact on another persons freedom. Once our actions cross over that line, we need to establish what the rules are.
 
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Ridiculous. Libertarians don’t believe in the right to murder. The government should have no right to control our actions to the extent that they don’t impact on another persons freedom. Once our actions cross over that line, we need to establish what the rules are.
98% of abortions happen in the first trimester and science and facts say that the foetus are just cells, ie. Not a life. If you think a life and soul are made as soon as the sperm fertilises the egg then that is just a belief you have invented. It is not backed by science and facts. Therefore your belief should not carry any weight on what options are available to women.

I mean, yes, if you think you can dictate what people do with their bodies then, hell no, you're a fascist, not a libertarian, stop kidding yourself.
 

0utsider

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98% of abortions happen in the first trimester and science and facts say that the foetus are just cells, ie. Not a life. If you think a life and soul are made as soon as the sperm fertilises the egg then that is just a belief you have invented. It is not backed by science and facts. Therefore your belief should not carry any weight on what options are available to women.

I mean, yes, if you think you can dictate what people do with their bodies then, hell no, you're a fascist, not a libertarian, stop kidding yourself.
1. What about the 2%
2. Science does not delve into the realm of what is and isn’t a “life” and it certainly doesn’t touch the subject of a “soul”. That is left up to philosophy.
3. There is a quite a large gap between being a libertarian and being a fascists, it’s not one or the other. Try having an argument that isn’t built on absolute extremes.
 

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Chief

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1. What about the 2%
2. Science does not delve into the realm of what is and isn’t a “life” and it certainly doesn’t touch the subject of a “soul”. That is left up to philosophy.
3. There is a quite a large gap between being a libertarian and being a fascists, it’s not one or the other. Try having an argument that isn’t built on absolute extremes.
Of course science has a position on what “life” is.

The “soul” - if you’re talking about an eternal supernatural essence - has never been proven to exist. That’s the scientific stance on the soul.
 

cartwright

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Snake_Baker

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Now, about that control.

Who’s surprised a Mississippi “law maker”, who co-sponsored the bill for forced pregnancies is also a wife basher?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doug-mcleod-mississippi-arrest-lawmakers-call-for-resignation-he-allegedly-punched-wife-2019-05-22/

Punched in the face for not giving him sex quickly enough.
WTF has this got to do with anything related to this discussion? Are you capable of delivering any thing above a generic soap opera level of discourse?
 

0utsider

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Now, about that control.

Who’s surprised a Mississippi “law maker”, who co-sponsored the bill for forced pregnancies is also a wife basher?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doug-mcleod-mississippi-arrest-lawmakers-call-for-resignation-he-allegedly-punched-wife-2019-05-22/

Punched in the face for not giving him sex quickly enough.
Why is 90% of the pro-choice argument made up of ad hominem attacks?

“Right wingers only care about unborn babies, once they’re born they’re on heir own”.

“Look at the bad thing this pro-lifer did”.

It’s irrelevant. Argue the point or get out of the way of those who are.
 

Snake_Baker

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Why is 90% of the pro-choice argument made up of ad hominem attacks?

“Right wingers only care about unborn babies, once they’re born they’re on heir own”.

“Look at the bad thing this pro-lifer did”.

It’s irrelevant. Argue the point or get out of the way of those who are.
You must be new around here.
 

Gough

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I'd like to see some of these anti abortionists speak out against the death penalty too. For them there seems to be a caveat in thou shall not kill.
 

0utsider

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I'd like to see some of these anti abortionists speak out against the death penalty too. For them there seems to be a caveat in thou shall not kill.
The death penalty is also wrong, however it’s far more excusable than the mass-murder of completely innocent lives before they’ve had a chance to take their first breath of fresh air.

Again though, this is another ad hominem.
 

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