Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

[its free real estate]

I have explained my position on this three times in this thread. The answer is no but making them illegal is not the way to deal with it. I did not accuse you of God bothering - you are the one saying Chiefs kid should not be alive - that was the paragraph directed at you

Why shouldn't third trimester abortions be illegal? Would you support changing the laws in Australia to permit abortions up to the moment of birth?

 

[Contra Mundum]

Right to life eh - Alabama has the second worst infant mortality in the US - what a ******* joke:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/infant_mortality_rates/infant_mortality.htm


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[Contra Mundum]

Why shouldn't third trimester abortions be illegal? Would you support changing the laws in Australia to permit abortions up to the moment of birth?

We have laws for infanticide already.


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[its free real estate]

We have laws for infanticide already.

Third trimester abortions are not infanticide, and are legal in New York.

 

[GreyWind]

Absolutely. That's all this whole thing is.

Very subjective though. Some go from conception, others from when the baby is born and most somewhere in between.

I don't see myself as being able to convince you on when life starts. I'm personally pro-choice and believe in legal and accessible abortions up until 20-22 weeks (due to foetal viability) and anything after that needs to be signed off by 2 doctors and only if there is health risks to the mother in being able to carry to full term.

My main problem with these new anti-abortion laws in the US are that they aren't pro-life, they are pro-birth. There's no extra funding towards pre-natal or neo-natal care, not to mention the restriction of contraceptives. Mix this in with states that have the lowest education rank in the States and you're going to end up with more births to people ill equipped to look after children either through age, economic and social factors and access to affordable health care.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Third trimester abortions are not infanticide, and are legal in New York.

Well your an advocate for full human - go and convince a judge that it’s killing mate. Like Barrassi says “if it is to be - it’s up to me”


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[its free real estate]

Well your an advocate for full human - go and convince a judge that it’s killing mate. Like Barrassi says “if it is to be - it’s up to me”


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So you think a foetus at 9 month gestation is not a full human? Even though they are viable outside the womb?

 

[GreyWind]

Third trimester abortions are not infanticide, and are legal in New York.

Isn't that only an option if signed off by a doctor because there's health risks to the mother and/or the foetus isn't viable?

 

[Contra Mundum]

So you think a foetus at 9 month gestation is not a full human? Even though they are viable outside the womb?

Your the one making the argument my learned friend. If it’s murder see if you can get the DPP to prosecute it


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[its free real estate]

Isn't that only an option if signed off by a doctor because there's health risks to the mother and/or the foetus isn't viable?

Health risks to the mother include mental health, which means literally anything. The foetus can be fully viable under NY law.

 

[its free real estate]

Your the one making the argument my learned friend. If it’s murder see if you can get the DPP to prosecute it

It is murder in Australia.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Right to life in Alabama

Infant mortality

Alabama is among the five states with the highest infant mortality rate in the country, according to the CDC. It had 7.4 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, and only Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma and South Dakota fared worse in 2017, the most recent year with statistics. Tennessee tied Alabama’s rate.

By comparison, the United States on average saw 5.8 deaths per 1,000 births, and Massachusetts had the lowest rate with 3.7 deaths.

That said, Alabama’s 2017 figure was a marked improvement from the year before, when it had the worst ranking in the country with 9.1 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Of Alabama’s 67 counties, 14 saw death rates in the double digits. But two rural counties stood out with the state’s highest infant mortality rates: Coosa and Hale counties each saw 19.8 deaths per 1,000 births, according to the Alabama Department of Public Health.

Children in the system

There are 6,370 children in Alabama’s foster-care system, according to Barry Spear, a spokesman for the Alabama Department of Human Resources.

Of those, 176 children have foster parents and are awaiting adoption. Another 283 foster children are hoping to be adopted but have “no identified resource,” Spear said.

Guns and the death penalty

Alabama had the second-highest rate of gun deaths in the nation in 2017, according to the CDC; only Alaska was higher.

It is one of 30 states that has the death penalty, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

Alabama is seventh in line for total number of executions (64) since 1976 and one of just three states that’s executed prisoners in 2019.

The number of prisoners on death row in the state — 182, including five women — will soon change.

On Thursday, Alabama plans to end inmate Michael Samra’s life by lethal injection.




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[Contra Mundum]

It is murder in Australia.

So why ask me whether it should be illegal when it already is!!


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[its free real estate]

So why ask me whether it should be illegal when it already is!!


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You are the one who is arguing it shouldn't be illegal.

 

[Contra Mundum]

You are the one who is arguing it shouldn't be illegal.

Oh well no one is perfect


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[Scallop Industry Thug]

I’ve never understood the logic behind those who believe life begins at conception but are ok with abortions in cases of rape.

I completely disagree with those opposed to any abortion but it’s more logically coherent than the anti abortion except in cases of rape or incest people.


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[its free real estate]

I’ve never understood the logic behind those who believe life begins at conception but are ok with abortions in cases of rape.

I completely disagree with those opposed to any abortion but it’s more logically coherent than the anti abortion except in cases of rape or incest people.


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The reality is that there are always exceptions.

Are you OK with abortions in the case where the mother finds out the foetus is female?

 

[GreyWind]

Health risks to the mother include mental health, which means literally anything. The foetus can be fully viable under NY law.

There's the DSM-5 for mental health, so not literally everything. I'm also aware that depression was one of the main reasons used by Tiller in his signing off for late term abortions.

 

[quotemokc]

Right to life in Alabama

Infant mortality

Alabama is among the five states with the highest infant mortality rate in the country, according to the CDC. It had 7.4 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, and only Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma and South Dakota fared worse in 2017, the most recent year with statistics. Tennessee tied Alabama’s rate.

By comparison, the United States on average saw 5.8 deaths per 1,000 births, and Massachusetts had the lowest rate with 3.7 deaths.

That said, Alabama’s 2017 figure was a marked improvement from the year before, when it had the worst ranking in the country with 9.1 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Of Alabama’s 67 counties, 14 saw death rates in the double digits. But two rural counties stood out with the state’s highest infant mortality rates: Coosa and Hale counties each saw 19.8 deaths per 1,000 births, according to the Alabama Department of Public Health.

Children in the system

There are 6,370 children in Alabama’s foster-care system, according to Barry Spear, a spokesman for the Alabama Department of Human Resources.

Of those, 176 children have foster parents and are awaiting adoption. Another 283 foster children are hoping to be adopted but have “no identified resource,” Spear said.

Guns and the death penalty

Alabama had the second-highest rate of gun deaths in the nation in 2017, according to the CDC; only Alaska was higher.

It is one of 30 states that has the death penalty, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

Alabama is seventh in line for total number of executions (64) since 1976 and one of just three states that’s executed prisoners in 2019.

The number of prisoners on death row in the state — 182, including five women — will soon change.

On Thursday, Alabama plans to end inmate Michael Samra’s life by lethal injection.




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Its not my argument but the general argument for the death penalty is that those on death row have lost the right to their life by taking others lives.

 

[its free real estate]

There's the DSM-5 for mental health, so not literally everything.

Depends how convincing the person who wants an abortion is.

 

[GreyWind]

Depends how convincing the person who wants an abortion is.

Also on how brave the doctor is on signing off on an abortion for mental health reasons.

 

[its free real estate]

Also on how brave the doctor is on signing off on an abortion for mental health reasons.

In a permissive legal jurisdiction, which New York undoubtedly is, I'd suppose it wouldn't require much bravery.

 

[GreyWind]

In a permissive legal jurisdiction, which New York undoubtedly is, I'd suppose it wouldn't require much bravery.

Depends on if there is any review process or what they do. I don't know their full in-depth process.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

The reality is that there are always exceptions.

Are you OK with abortions in the case where the mother finds out the foetus is female?

I am.

But the late-term abortions where the child could be feasibly born is beyond the pale. I find that really hard to reconcile knowing you are effectively killing something old enough to survive outside the womb.

 

[Chief]

I think human life starts when the unique DNA is formed. You don't. I base my position off that.

I err on the side of not ending millions of lives.

What is your evidence to support that?

After IVF we had several viable embryos left in storage. We were legally not able to give them to other couples so they were destroyed.

We did consider what we were doing and there was a small emotional component, but in the end we weren’t having more kids and we had gone through the best ones to get our son. End of story.

Honestly you lose more genetic material down the plug hole using a loofah in the shower than you do taking embryos out of storage.