The Academies - 2016

[Suma Magic]

I would have preferred a policy that linked discount to finishing position. Finish 18th, get an 18% discount. Finish 1st get 1%. With no limits on the number of discounted academy players that teams could recruit.

I support the return of traditional footy areas to the draft pool.

 

[robbieando]

Wonder why there was a relatively small amount drafted from the area before the academies if that was the case.

Seem stuck in the middle

Not really. Of the currently listed players from the area. 7 didn't go though the Giants Academy while 9 did. This of course only takes into account current players and not past players

 

[dlanod]

Not really. Of the currently listed players from the area. 7 didn't go though the Giants Academy while 9 did. This of course only takes into account current players and not past players

Curious as to whether your list includes those that moved elsewhere to get their break (e.g. Isaac Smith) and what time span the non-academy recruits came into the league versus the academy recruits.

 

[Pykie]

Wonder why there was a relatively small amount drafted from the area before the academies if that was the case.

Seem stuck in the middle

Err because there's been plenty from the area?

You realize Albury/Wodonga is essentially the same town?

I can rattle off over a dozen first round picks from the area over the last 15 years without even digging.

 

[Membling]

Err because there's been plenty from the area?

You realize Albury/Wodonga is essentially the same town?

I can rattle off over a dozen first round picks from the area over the last 15 years without even digging.

Really? "Plenty"?

Name a dozen first round picks in the last 10 years from the region without naming academy players.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Really? "Plenty"?

Name a dozen first round picks in the last 10 years from the region without naming academy players.

How many academy players have gone first round from the region without moving to a posh boarding school in Victoria or playing TAC cup (excluding for the Rams)?

If we're being honest about what to do with kids that can't access the same recruiting pathways as Victorian kids, we might as well stop looking at ones that have, no?

The way I see it, if you move to Victoria to play in a Metro or Victorian TAC Cup Team, you've made your choice and you're no longer eligible for the Academy. If you live in NSW, are not close to Albury and are happy to play for the NSW/ACT Rams, then you're eligible for the Academy. Simple, fair and encourages kids to keep living at home.

 

[Colonial]

How many academy players have gone first round from the region without moving to a posh boarding school in Victoria or playing TAC cup (excluding for the Rams)?

If we're being honest about what to do with kids that can't access the same recruiting pathways as Victorian kids, we might as well stop looking at ones that have, no?

The way I see it, if you move to Victoria to play in a Metro or Victorian TAC Cup Team, you've made your choice and you're no longer eligible for the Academy. If you live in NSW, are not close to Albury and are happy to play for the NSW/ACT Rams, then you're eligible for the Academy. Simple, fair and encourages kids to keep living at home.

So academy puts the effort in over 5 or so years and then play 1 tac season and its all over?

Yeah ok

Id like to see this supposed list also.

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[briztoon]

How many academy players have gone first round from the region without moving to a posh boarding school in Victoria or playing TAC cup (excluding for the Rams)?

If we're being honest about what to do with kids that can't access the same recruiting pathways as Victorian kids, we might as well stop looking at ones that have, no?

The way I see it, if you move to Victoria to play in a Metro or Victorian TAC Cup Team, you've made your choice and you're no longer eligible for the Academy. If you live in NSW, are not close to Albury and are happy to play for the NSW/ACT Rams, then you're eligible for the Academy. Simple, fair and encourages kids to keep living at home.

So a rich Victorian private school comes knocking at your parents door during year 10 or 11 offering their son a scholarship for one or two years, and you expect these families to turn them down...

The academies identify the kids at 12 out of junior footy and work with them for the next few years, hoping that 3 or 4 each year make the grade. Yes GWS has had the benefit of recruiting kids from traditional footy areas, but in the last 3 years, they've produced more kids out of that area than has come out previously. I'm going to c&p a post from dlanod that was posted on our board this morning.

Albury isn't too bad as its TAC Cup team is in Wangaratta and Moama is only an hour or so away from Bendigo, but areas like Wentworth (where Brander is from) or Gol Gol (Kobe Mutch) is a 4 1/2 to 5 hour trip to Bendigo for TAC Cup training and duties. Areas like that have now gone from having periodic talent identification and development camps to requiring a massive commitment. To use an analogy, it's like saying everyone has access to buy a Ferrari even though obviously not everyone can actually afford it.

There needs to be another TAC team in the area to continue on the work of GWS.

 

[robbieando]

Curious as to whether your list includes those that moved elsewhere to get their break (e.g. Isaac Smith) and what time span the non-academy recruits came into the league versus the academy recruits.

My list

Murray Region players who went though the Giants Academy

Max Lynch - (Albury) - Rookie Pick by Collingwood
Will Setterfield (Albury) - Pick 5 by GWS (TAC Cup in Melbourne)
Zach Sproule (Albury) - Rookie Pick by GWS
Todd Marshall (Deniliquin) - Pick 16 by Port Adelaide
Ryan Gathwaite (Lavington) - Pick 72 by Richmond
Nick Coughlan (Albury) - Rookie Listed by St Kilda (2nd Year Eligible) Spent year at TAC Cup
Sam Murray (Henty) - Rookie Listed by Sydney out of the O&M League a year removed from TAC Cup
Lachlan Tizani (Albury) - Pick 54 by GWS (2nd Year Eligible)
Harrison Macreadie (Henry) - Pick 47 by Carlton

Murray Region players who didn't

Sam Rowe - (Albury) - Rookie Pick by Sydney in 2006 (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers) delisted end of 2007, played SANFL and selected Pick 44 in 2011
Tom Hawkins - (Finley) - F/S selection for Geelong (went to boarding school in Melbourne)
Taylor Duryea (Corowa) - Pick 69 by Hawthorn (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers)
Aidyn Johnson - (Moama) - Pick 45 by Port Adelaide in 2015 (School in Melbourne and TAC Cup for Bendigo Pioneers)
Sam Lloyd (Deniliquin) - Pick 66 in 2013 by Richmond (after time in VFL and MFL)
Anthony Miles (North Albury) - GWS Zone Selection (Played TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers in 2009 and 2010)
Daniel Howe (Rennie) - Pick 31 by Hawthorn in 2014 (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers went to school in Melbourne)

Now remember I only included those who were able to play TAC Cup, so there are about 2 or 3 right near the cut off that I'm not sure about who played for the Rams and have no record for the Bushrangers or Pioneers. Hope that helps

 

[briztoon]

My list

Murray Region players who went though the Giants Academy

Max Lynch - (Albury) - Rookie Pick by Collingwood
Will Setterfield (Albury) - Pick 5 by GWS (TAC Cup in Melbourne)
Zach Sproule (Albury) - Rookie Pick by GWS
Todd Marshall (Deniliquin) - Pick 16 by Port Adelaide
Ryan Gathwaite (Lavington) - Pick 72 by Richmond
Nick Coughlan (Albury) - Rookie Listed by St Kilda (2nd Year Eligible) Spent year at TAC Cup
Sam Murray (Henty) - Rookie Listed by Sydney out of the O&M League a year removed from TAC Cup
Lachlan Tizani (Albury) - Pick 54 by GWS (2nd Year Eligible)
Harrison Macreadie (Henry) - Pick 47 by Carlton

Murray Region players who didn't

Sam Rowe - (Albury) - Rookie Pick by Sydney in 2006 (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers) delisted end of 2007, played SANFL and selected Pick 44 in 2011
Tom Hawkins - (Finley) - F/S selection for Geelong (went to boarding school in Melbourne)
Taylor Duryea (Corowa) - Pick 69 by Hawthorn (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers)
Aidyn Johnson - (Moama) - Pick 45 by Port Adelaide in 2015 (School in Melbourne and TAC Cup for Bendigo Pioneers)
Sam Lloyd (Deniliquin) - Pick 66 in 2013 by Richmond (after time in VFL and MFL)
Anthony Miles (North Albury) - GWS Zone Selection (Played TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers in 2009 and 2010)
Daniel Howe (Rennie) - Pick 31 by Hawthorn in 2014 (TAC Cup for Murray Bushrangers went to school in Melbourne)

Now remember I only included those who were able to play TAC Cup, so there are about 2 or 3 right near the cut off that I'm not sure about who played for the Rams and have no record for the Bushrangers or Pioneers. Hope that helps

Mate you missed the most important bit. Need to list them by year.

 

[briztoon]

The whole discussion centres on wether the GWS academy started producing more AFL drafted players from their zones, and if the GWS academy players appear to be of a higher standard than what the area produced before the academy was in place.

 

[Bokonon_]

The whole discussion centres on wether the GWS academy started producing more AFL drafted players from their zones, and if the GWS academy players appear to be of a higher standard than what the area produced before the academy was in place.

And also the areas that had no reasonable access to the TAC cup. It's not as simple as one or the other. Tex, Cummin and Tiziani all come from North BH. Cummin was able to be drafted without leaving home at a very young age, because of the academy. In previous times it would have been an SA scolarship. Tex Walker went that route and made it, good on him but others undoubtedly havent entered the system at all from Broken Hill because their was no route except leaving home at a very young age.

 

[coniglio_number1]

And also the areas that had no reasonable access to the TAC cup. It's not as simple as one or the other. Tex, Cummin and Tiziani all come from North BH. Cummin was able to be drafted without leaving home at a very young age, because of the academy. In previous times it would have been an SA scolarship. Tex Walker went that route and made it, good on him but others undoubtedly havent entered the system at all from Broken Hill because their was no route except leaving home at a very young age.

Tex was a NSW scholarship product. Didn't make it on his own but through the help of adelaide

 

[Bokonon_]

Tex was a NSW scholarship product. Didn't make it on his own but through the help of adelaide

That's actually what I said, and the traditional route to professional footy from Broken Hill to one of the SANFL clubs. It meant leaving home at 15 or 16 for the few that were committed enough and talented enough from a very traditional AFL town.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

So a rich Victorian private school comes knocking at your parents door during year 10 or 11 offering their son a scholarship for one or two years, and you expect these families to turn them down...

Not at all. I just expect GWS to no longer have access to these kids. If a major point of academies to have kids learn the game in their home town and play in their home state when they get drafted then why the hell are they moving to Melbourne? How is that a good outcome for the riverina or inline with the purpose of the academies?

There needs to be another TAC team in the area to continue on the work of GWS.

And there won't be. The area to the north of Bendigo and west of Albury is far too sparsely populated to field a TAC cup team of quality on par with the rest of the competition. So there needs to be another answer, and one that applies to kids from rural areas of other states as well. The fact that Wentworth kids are (or were) eligible for an academy while Mildura kids were not and had to do the drive mentioned in dlanod's post really shows how ridiculous the academy borders are.

 

[Bokonon_]

Not at all. I just expect GWS to no longer have access to these kids. If a major point of academies to have kids learn the game in their home town and play in their home state when they get drafted then why the hell are they moving to Melbourne? How is that a good outcome for the riverina or inline with the purpose of the academies?


And there won't be. The area to the north of Bendigo and west of Albury is far too sparsely populated to field a TAC cup team of quality on par with the rest of the competition. So there needs to be another answer, and one that applies to kids from rural areas of other states as well. The fact that Wentworth kids are (or were) eligible for an academy while Mildura kids were not and had to do the drive mentioned in dlanod's post really shows how ridiculous the academy borders are.

Wentworth is in NSW and Mildura isnt. Dont think it's any more complicated than that.

 

[briztoon]

Not at all. I just expect GWS to no longer have access to these kids. If a major point of academies to have kids learn the game in their home town and play in their home state when they get drafted then why the hell are they moving to Melbourne? How is that a good outcome for the riverina or inline with the purpose of the academies?


And there won't be. The area to the north of Bendigo and west of Albury is far too sparsely populated to field a TAC cup team of quality on par with the rest of the competition. So there needs to be another answer, and one that applies to kids from rural areas of other states as well. The fact that Wentworth kids are (or were) eligible for an academy while Mildura kids were not and had to do the drive mentioned in dlanod's post really shows how ridiculous the academy borders are.

Because rich Melbourne schools are lining up at their door offering them scholarships. Take the scholarships away and see how many head to Melbourne. No different to Brisbane private schools offering Rugby Union scholarships to kids who are a junior member of a NRL team. Every year there's a couple of kids on the Bronco's books who are on scholarship and play Rugby Union for Nudgee College, one of North Brisbane's private schools.

When I was at school, there were always a couple of PNG kids who were on scholarship at Marist Brothers Ashgrove who played Rugby Union for the first 15.

Private schools "buy" talent.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Wentworth is in NSW and Mildura isnt. Dont think it's any more complicated than that.

So rural kids in Wentworth clearly deserve a talent development program, but rural kids in Mildura just on the other side of the river clearly don't. Bizarre, but okay.

Because rich Melbourne schools are lining up at their door offering them scholarships. Take the scholarships away and see how many head to Melbourne. No different to Brisbane private schools offering Rugby Union scholarships to kids who are a junior member of a NRL team. Every year there's a couple of kids on the Bronco's books who are on scholarship and play Rugby Union for Nudgee College, one of North Brisbane's private schools.

When I was at school, there were always a couple of PNG kids who were on scholarship at Marist Brothers Ashgrove who played Rugby Union for the first 15.

Private schools "buy" talent.

How many have gone to Melbourne already, aside from Hopper? Is it really that tough on GWS if the lucky few in the academy who got accepted into these scholarships were then considered ineligible for academy selection? Conversely if somebody isn't offered a scholarship and pays their way to Melbourne, should they still be considered eligible?

 

[Colonial]

So rural kids in Wentworth clearly deserve a talent development program, but rural kids in Mildura just on the other side of the river clearly don't. Bizarre, but okay.


How many have gone to Melbourne already, aside from Hopper? Is it really that tough on GWS if the lucky few in the academy who got accepted into these scholarships were then considered ineligible for academy selection? Conversely if somebody isn't offered a scholarship and pays their way to Melbourne, should they still be considered eligible?

If we put 5 or so years into them why should we lose them because they do 1 or 2 years schooling in vic?

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[Bokonon_]

So rural kids in Wentworth clearly deserve a talent development program, but rural kids in Mildura just on the other side of the river clearly don't. Bizarre, but okay.


How many have gone to Melbourne already, aside from Hopper? Is it really that tough on GWS if the lucky few in the academy who got accepted into these scholarships were then considered ineligible for academy selection? Conversely if somebody isn't offered a scholarship and pays their way to Melbourne, should they still be considered eligible?

A rational person couldn't possibly read what I said, and give the respinse you did. I'm not going to continue to interract with you for that reason.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

A rational person couldn't possibly read what I said, and give the respinse you did. I'm not going to continue to interract with you for that reason.

That's pretty odd, I would have said a rational person wouldn't have read how I queried the sense in only giving kids on one side of the border an opportunity despite conceding both sides are clearly lacking in existing opportunity, and then re-affirmed that it's just because of the border.

But anyway, carry on like a snowflake and toddle off.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

If we put 5 or so years into them why should we lose them because they do 1 or 2 years schooling in vic?

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The same reason any club can't claim it's spent money on a draftee and then expect priority access to them in a draft. Otherwise, don't you think every club in Australia would be doing that if they were allowed?

 

[Colonial]

The same reason any club can't claim it's spent money on a draftee and then expect priority access to them in a draft. Otherwise, don't you think every club in Australia would be doing that if they were allowed?

They should have academies for every club.
Or
Create a National Under 18s and National Reserves and I'll happily support the removal of academies.

Until that point. I shant agree with you.


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[Nuggs Bunny]

They should have academies for every club.
Or
Create a National Under 18s and National Reserves and I'll happily support the removal of academies.

Until that point. I shant agree.

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We did have academies for every club, they were known as the zones, and it turned out to be a pretty terrible system. Four teams with excellent zones were fantastic while the other four had SFA hope of winning a flag.

Further, I'm not advocating the removal of academies. I don't have a problem with the GC, Brisbane or Sydney academy even if Sydney drafted a new Callum Mills every year. Seriously. I could not even give a * about the GWS academy outside of the Albury. However, my problems are two fold.

1. Kids who live across the river from the Murray Bushrangers did not need to be a part of an academy (sounds like that's now fixed, so good?)
2. The murray river is an absolutely *ed border between who has opportunity to play under 18's football and who doesn't. The academy system did not fix this and won't be able to, however any fix for this problem will likely clash with the academy system.

Am I being that unreasonable? I really don't think so.

 

[Colonial]

We did have academies for every club, they were known as the zones, and it turned out to be a pretty terrible system. Four teams with excellent zones were fantastic while the other four had SFA hope of winning a flag.

Further, I'm not advocating the removal of academies. I don't have a problem with the GC, Brisbane or Sydney academy even if Sydney drafted a new Callum Mills every year. Seriously. I could not even give a **** about the GWS academy outside of the Albury. However, my problems are two fold.

1. Kids who live across the river from the Murray Bushrangers did not need to be a part of an academy (sounds like that's now fixed, so good?)
2. The murray river is an absolutely ******ed border between who has opportunity to play under 18's football and who doesn't. The academy system did not fix this and won't be able to, however any fix for this problem will likely clash with the academy system.

Am I being that unreasonable? I really don't think so.

Well thats the problem of the teams who obviously couldnt develop their juniors

There has to be a border for our academy somewhere.
May as well be the state borders.

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