The Academies - 2016

[dlanod]

The AFL making it a top 6 + GWS and Sydney for the foreseeable future should be a decent enough advantage.

Someone really needs to talk to the AFL about it being a top 5 + Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney for the past decade.

Nope? No one? Only Sydney needs action taken? Cool, glad that's sorted.

 

[Orange Agent]

If he's playing TAC Cup, you shouldn't get him. He's getting the training and development there. Not missing out on anything playing TAC Cup. If you want him, trade up to get him.

Until the Sydney school system gets a decent AFL program its going to be hard to convince a kid to give up a scholarship for a prestigous Vic school, we got Macreadie to move up this year but its hard to compete with whats on offer at some of the bigger Vic schools. We sign up these kids up 13-14 and have no idea how good they will turn out. He's only playing TAC due to where he goes to school.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Then shouldn't be eligible for the academy as he's nowhere near the region. The academy is designed to bridge the gap between AFL opportunities, if you are playing TAC Cup you have every opportunity and training.

Disagree

Look at Setterfield, he has been in the Giants Academy since he was 13. He was offered a educational/playing scholarship at the prestigious Caulfield Grammar which his parents eagerly snapped up and as any parents would.

If TAC kids were blocked from the Academy all that would need to happen would be for them to take a scholarship. These kids come from rural areas and do not have the opportunities to get these types of chances.

If they are in the Academy and from an Academy zone they should be eligible for us to select.

 

[Colonial]

But the makeup of that list due to gifts that seem to be an on going arrangement are far from what everyone else gets.

Nope.

Its made up of hard work. We were supposed to be raided and lose everyone after 2 years. Oops

Ongoing gifts? Me thinks you are just ranting.

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[Andronicus]

Someone really needs to talk to the AFL about it being a top 5 + Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney for the past decade.

Nope? No one? Only Sydney needs action taken? Cool, glad that's sorted.

Did Hawthorn and Geelong do it with academy picks?

 

[ManOfClay]

Until the Sydney school system gets a decent AFL program its going to be hard to convince a kid to give up a scholarship for a prestigous Vic school, we got Macreadie to move up this year but its hard to compete with whats on offer at some of the bigger Vic schools. We sign up these kids up 13-14 and have no idea how good they will turn out. He's only playing TAC due to where he goes to school.

If he's only playing TAC due to where he goes to school then why isn't he playing for geelong falcons?

All Wentworth kids are aligned to Bendigo. Kobe Mutch, Derek smith (likely to be at Richmond under the next gen academy) etc. like mark alvey and Ben McGlynn before them

 

[Colonial]

Did Hawthorn and Geelong do it with academy picks?

Geelong with f/s

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[dlanod]

Did Hawthorn and Geelong do it with academy picks?

Has GWS done it at all?

 

[Andronicus]

Nope.

Its made up of hard work. We were supposed to be raided and lose everyone after 2 years. Oops

Ongoing gifts? Me thinks you are just ranting.

Hard work being the ablity to trade multiple late picks for top players?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Until the Sydney school system gets a decent AFL program its going to be hard to convince a kid to give up a scholarship for a prestigous Vic school, we got Macreadie to move up this year but its hard to compete with whats on offer at some of the bigger Vic schools. We sign up these kids up 13-14 and have no idea how good they will turn out. He's only playing TAC due to where he goes to school.

My personal belief is where you go to school and if you play TAC should have a direct say in terms of whether you qualify. If you want someone in the academy you should be offering him schooling in Sydney somewhere.

 

[Andronicus]

Geelong with f/s

And the rules have changed have they not?

Has GWS done it at all?

Did you choose to miss the word future in my post?

 

[Colonial]

Hard work being the ablity to trade multiple late picks for top players?

You think thats all it was? Really?

Oook.



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[dlanod]

Did you choose to miss the word future in my post?

Nope, I was just confirming that your position was that clubs who haven't done it, and may yet never do it, but might do it need action taken against them now to weaken them, but those who have done it are all ok.

 

[Colonial]

And the rules have changed have they not?


Did you choose to miss the word future in my post?

Yes they have changed. As have academy rules so......


Future? What's the lotto winning numbers then

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[Andre the Giant]

Giants have had the most talent overall though.

Its a larger area so will provide larger numbers but elite talent is coming from everywhere. Some of the projections on players next year is just rubbish, you can't be confident any would be near the top of the draft.

Just look at Macreadie the so called equal of Silvagni/Rance...he was projected top 3 last year and won't even get picked in the first round!

The Riverina is a great resovoir of potential talent but don't discount the role of development. If we are shunted elsewhere just watch that area flourish.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Disagree

Look at Setterfield, he has been in the Giants Academy since he was 13. He was offered a educational/playing scholarship at the prestigious Caulfield Grammar which his parents eagerly snapped up and as any parents would.

If TAC kids were blocked from the Academy all that would need to happen would be for them to take a scholarship. These kids come from rural areas and do not have the opportunities to get these types of chances.

If they are in the Academy and from an Academy zone they should be eligible for us to select.

Each to their own. I get what you are saying, i just don't agree. you can't have the cake and eat it too. You either want a player in your academy, which means you foot the bill and his development (therefore qualifying for the academy), or you let them be, but forfeiting the rights to them. Maybe a compromise might be the ones that you sign but DON'T live/go to school/play footy in the academy region, the giants still retain access but forfeit the 20% discount. Discount should only come in play for players that the club has developed.

 

[Orange Agent]

If he's only playing TAC due to where he goes to school then why isn't he playing for geelong falcons?

All Wentworth kids are aligned to Bendigo. Kobe Mutch, Derek smith (likely to be at Richmond under the next gen academy) etc. like mark alvey and Ben McGlynn before them

He is on the Falcons list, ive never seen anything about him being aligned to Bendigo. He played a game in our 2's this year.

http://www.aflbarwon.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Falcons-Squad-2017_Pre-Season.pdf

 

[Andronicus]

Nope, I was just confirming that your position was that clubs who haven't done it, and may yet never do it, but might do it need action taken against them now to weaken them, but those who have done it are all ok.

The whole push for equalisation seems to apply very selectively.

Hawks did it with the assistance of the old PP system, but also some great trading, drafting and coaching structures. Geelong did it off the back of some great drafting, and had some great luck with F/S picks that have now been changed.

GWS have so much talent handed to them, that with any sort of decent structure and development gives them an unfair advantage going forward.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Each to their own. I get what you are saying, i just don't agree. you can't have the cake and eat it too. You either want a player in your academy, which means you foot the bill and his development (therefore qualifying for the academy), or you let them be, but forfeiting the rights to them. Maybe a compromise might be the ones that you sign but DON'T live/go to school/play footy in the academy region, the giants still retain access but forfeit the 20% discount. Discount should only come in play for players that the club has developed.

I guess our argument is hat if we didn't develop them they would likely not get offered scholarships. 13 years old is pretty early, its not like the Todd Marshall situation when interest only came after he was established.

 

[Orange Agent]

My personal belief is where you go to school and if you play TAC should have a direct say in terms of whether you qualify. If you want someone in the academy you should be offering him schooling in Sydney somewhere.

Not sure we can pay for a kids schooling, where would it go? Under TPP? These are private schools that pride themselves on sporting results, they do what they want, I have no doubt they cherry pick our academy lists.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I guess our argument is hat if we didn't develop them they would likely not get offered scholarships. 13 years old is pretty early, its not like the Todd Marshall situation when interest only came after he was established.

If they take the scholarship you forfeit the 20%. You still would get the player in my idea. You just would pay exact market value.

 

[dlanod]

Each to their own. I get what you are saying, i just don't agree. you can't have the cake and eat it too. You either want a player in your academy, which means you foot the bill and his development (therefore qualifying for the academy), or you let them be, but forfeiting the rights to them. Maybe a compromise might be the ones that you sign but DON'T live/go to school/play footy in the academy region, the giants still retain access but forfeit the 20% discount. Discount should only come in play for players that the club has developed.

So GWS should identify and develop talent until it reaches the eyes of the Victorian private schools. They come and offer the kid a scholarship to finish their schooling with them, contingent upon them playing AFL for the school. At that stage the obvious best choice for the kid is to take the scholarship because these are (from what I understand) very good schools, resulting in GWS losing access. Why would GWS bother if the best talent is being pruned off and made ineligible? Are you suggesting GWS should run prestigious private schools in the Riverina area so that they foot the bill?

GWS doesn't have veto rights over these kids' decisions, which seems to be what you're missing. It's up to the kid and his parents, and a top notch education with a side of an AFL would beat out just AFL in most people's minds.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

GWS doesn't have veto rights over these kids' decisions, which seems to be what you're missing.

More to the point, academy teams should have no incentive whatsoever toward dissuading a kid from going to the best school he can. The system as is works just fine in this respect.

 

[Colonial]

The whole push for equalisation seems to apply very selectively.

Hawks did it with the assistance of the old PP system, but also some great trading, drafting and coaching structures. Geelong did it off the back of some great drafting, and had some great luck with F/S picks that have now been changed.

GWS have so much talent handed to them, that with any sort of decent structure and development gives them an unfair advantage going forward.

We have the same cap and list size as everyone else.

If you want our players trade for em.

You had the chance at start up to trade but stupidly thought they would all run away to supposed true clubs .
We are now under the same rules. We have academies yes but we dont have f/s and an entire state that lives and breaths the game.
We also have to travel and dont get derbies every 2nd week.

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[Andre the Giant]

My personal belief is where you go to school and if you play TAC should have a direct say in terms of whether you qualify. If you want someone in the academy you should be offering him schooling in Sydney somewhere.

Yhe problem with the is that NSW does not have an adequate school system for AFL. These kids want a great education and also want to test themselves against the best so they can improve.

We have very little opportunity of deceloping players in Blacktown or Homebush, we don't have acces to F/S and 9 times out of 10 are an interstate option for any kid we recruit so as you have seen with Brisbane Lions the odds are against us.

This gets masked when the team is winning but just wait until you start losing. Them you get he exodus and associated issues and become The Brisbane Lions.

Without careful and ongoing support the Giants will become a basket case which would end up being much more of a problem for the other 17 clubs.