The Academies - 2016

[Bojan KantKick]

Crows eagles and port got SOO teams. So being a footy state did mean allot. Built in fan base and kids dreaming to play already.

Only Freo got screwed in start up(blame lions there) but they also made some bad choices.

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Haha no they didn't. Big difference between getting a SOO team and a SANFL team. Would be like GWS getting the best of the NEAFL.

How could the Crows and Port both have an SOO team?

Kids dreaming to play? The draft pretty much eliminates this as being a factor.

 

[Dr Whoooooooo]

Q:why should the AFL world be any different
A: Eddie

Q ... So what football club do you run?
A ... None. Im just a bigfooty critic.

Just for the record I have zero allegiance to Collingwood.

But Eddie is a tireless worker for the Collingwood FC ... he never stops working for them ... he even pursued my company to pump many $$$$ into the Pies and it was one of the most profitable partnerships we ever had, worth every cent we put in.

 

[Matchu]

Crows eagles and port got SOO teams. So being a footy state did mean allot. Built in fan base and kids dreaming to play already.

Only Freo got screwed in start up(blame lions there) but they also made some bad choices.

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Port had a SOO team in 1997? The Crows won the flag in 1997 when Port entered the AFL and went back-to-back in 1998. The Crows had South Australian stars on their list at that time like Jarman, Modra, Ricciuto and Goodwin. What about some of the other South Australian stars at that time who didn't play for either SA team like Kernahan? What about other talented SA players like Champion and Darcy?

I think it's a stretch to say Port Adelaide possessed a state team in 1997 while their crosstown rivals were filled with players from SA and went on to win their first flag that very season.

 

[Colonial]

Haha no they didn't. Big difference between getting a SOO team and a SANFL team. Would be like GWS getting the best of the NEAFL.

How could the Crows and Port both have an SOO team?

Kids dreaming to play? The draft pretty much eliminates this as being a factor.

Back then a sanfl team was the same as a neafl team? Hahaha no.

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[Bojan KantKick]

Back then a sanfl team was the same as a neafl team? Hahaha no.

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Way to miss the point and avoid answering the question.

 

[Kwality]

Q ... So what football club do you run?
A ... None. Im just a bigfooty critic.

Just for the record I have zero allegiance to Collingwood.

But Eddie is a tireless worker for the Collingwood FC ... he never stops working for them ... he even pursued my company to pump many $$$$ into the Pies and it was one of the most profitable partnerships we ever had, worth every cent we put in.

I share your view of Ed, but in no way underestimate his pull.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

View attachment 310848

So apparently the next Commission meeting is around next month so if there is to be a change for next year you would think they would have to make it then.

 

[dlanod]

Not really. Adelaide, Port, Freo and the Eagles didn't get an academy or F/S when they joined. Being in a traditional state meant SFA to them.

Other than Freo, the rest got to pick the cream of a very strong local league when they joined. Why do you think they all won a premiership or more in their first decade?

OTOH Freo got seriously screwed.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Other than Freo, the rest got to pick the cream of a very strong local league when they joined. Why do you think they all won a premiership or more in their first decade?

OTOH Freo got seriously screwed.

How could Port and Adelaide both have got the cream of the crop?

 

[dlanod]

How could Port and Adelaide both have got the cream of the crop?

If you're looking for actual information rather than quibbling over terminology, it's because:

• Port Adelaide Magpies were a very strong team (nine SANFL premierships between '88 and '99).
• A lot of said Magpies stayed in the SANFL rather than join the Crows because the team was so parochial. Adelaide still got the rest of the league on board at a stage where the best SA players were largely staying in the SANFL.
• When Port joined the AFL, a lot of that very strong SANFL team joined the Power.

If you were just looking to quibble terminology, consider the above an educational bonus.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

If you're looking for actual information rather than quibbling over terminology, it's because:

• Port Adelaide Magpies were a very strong team (nine SANFL premierships between '88 and '99).
• A lot of said Magpies stayed in the SANFL rather than join the Crows because the team was so parochial. Adelaide still got the rest of the league on board at a stage where the best SA players were largely staying in the SANFL.
• When Port joined the AFL, a lot of that very strong SANFL team joined the Power.

If you were just looking to quibble terminology, consider the above an educational bonus.

I was questioning the idea that 2 teams could have state of origin teams within a few years of each other.

 

[dlanod]

I was questioning the idea that 2 teams could have state of origin teams within a few years of each other.

I'll let you go back to discussing those SOO teams with General Giant then as I haven't put any effort into following what is meant by that term here.

 

[Colonial]

I'll let you go back to discussing those SOO teams with General Giant then as I haven't put any effort into following what is meant by that term here.

Eh? Have moved on. Its obvious anything we do is just handed to us, while everyone else are hard workers, according to him so no point going further in discussion.

As an old league nut i use the soo term when meaning cream of the league etc. My bad probably but thats what i was raised on.

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[Bender571]

If you're looking for actual information rather than quibbling over terminology, it's because:

• Port Adelaide Magpies were a very strong team (nine SANFL premierships between '88 and '99).
• A lot of said Magpies stayed in the SANFL rather than join the Crows because the team was so parochial. Adelaide still got the rest of the league on board at a stage where the best SA players were largely staying in the SANFL.
• When Port joined the AFL, a lot of that very strong SANFL team joined the Power.

If you were just looking to quibble terminology, consider the above an educational bonus.

That's a stretch. Of Port's inaugural squad of 35 only 8 players came from the 94/95/96 Magpies grand final teams, and only 2 of them would play in the 2004 flag. In fact only 7 players from the 2004 flag came from Port's start up concessions.

But really this talk of start up concessions is irrelevant to the academies, because the academies aren't a start up concession.
They are an ongoing concession to Northern clubs for a perceived disadvantage faced by Northern clubs.

 

[Kwality]

Other than Freo, the rest got to pick the cream of a very strong local league when they joined. Why do you think they all won a premiership or more in their first decade?

OTOH Freo got seriously screwed.

You are aware the Vic clubs got first dibs at the WA talent, the Eagles got what was left. IF your knowledge doesn't run to the facts, I am happy to attribute the error of your ways.

 

[giantsully]

Eddie will be happy when you follow the same rules as the other 14 clubs. You still have access to a large number of players.

You mean like the WA clubs get their pick of the half dozen "go home" players every year? We can but dream my friend.

 

[Kwality]

You mean like the WA clubs get their pick of the half dozen "go home" players every year? We can but dream my friend.

a fair comment & another reason why the rules for academies in NSW & Q should remain as they are

 

[Kwality]

That's a stretch. Of Port's inaugural squad of 35 only 8 players came from the 94/95/96 Magpies grand final teams, and only 2 of them would play in the 2004 flag. In fact only 7 players from the 2004 flag came from Port's start up concessions.

But really this talk of start up concessions is irrelevant to the academies, because the academies aren't a start up concession.
They are an ongoing concession to Northern clubs for a perceived disadvantage faced by Northern clubs.

Perceived, no way Jose, its real !!

 

[go_the_dockers]

You mean like the WA clubs get their pick of the half dozen "go home" players every year? We can but dream my friend.

Half a dozen

Haha, this year was an exception and even then there was not 1 A grader amongst them.

O'meara or Franklin are the A Graders I would have liked, but they went home

 

[Kwality]

I was questioning the idea that 2 teams could have state of origin teams within a few years of each other.

Its not a challenging concept unless its a self serving necessity ...

 

[Bender571]

Perceived, no way Jose, its real !!

Perhaps, but how do you actually objectively measure advantage and disadvantage?

The main reason cited for academies is that Northern clubs have to draft from players that mainly don't come from their state. But that applies to WA and SA clubs, not to the same extent, but approximately 80% of the draft comes from outside their state. Should they receive half an academy to correct his disadvantage?

Once you start trying to count advantage and disadvantage it's a slippery slope. WA teams have to travel the furthest, Adelaide is seen as an undesirable city to live, Victoria has 5 times the teams of any other state, etc.
Ryan Griffen said the weather, beaches, and getting out of the Melbourne bubble influenced his decision to move to GWS. Should NSW clubs lose something to correct this advantage?

 

[Colonial]

Ryan Griffen said the weather, beaches, and getting out of the Melbourne bubble influenced his decision to move to GWS.

You forgot to add, once his best years were behind him

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[Choppers]

Perhaps, but how do you actually objectively measure advantage and disadvantage?

The main reason cited for academies is that Northern clubs have to draft from players that mainly don't come from their state. But that applies to WA and SA clubs, not to the same extent, but approximately 80% of the draft comes from outside their state. Should they receive half an academy to correct his disadvantage?

Once you start trying to count advantage and disadvantage it's a slippery slope. WA teams have to travel the furthest, Adelaide is seen as an undesirable city to live, Victoria has 5 times the teams of any other state, etc.
Ryan Griffen said the weather, beaches, and getting out of the Melbourne bubble influenced his decision to move to GWS. Should NSW clubs lose something to correct this advantage?

There's no way to measure advantage against disadvantage when you don't have a fair competition. The AFL will never be a fair competition until you have each team playing home and away over 2 rounds. I support a northern club so we travel a fair bit, not as much as the WA teams, but it's up there. Now we accept that because we want to be part of the AFL, but when you see a Melbourne team play their first 7 games at Etihad and their 8th at the MCG, you start to wonder "are we being disadvantaged". So how do we measure that?

In those first 8 weeks while that team stayed at home we went to Perth, Melbourne twice and Sydney.

Who has the advantage there?

 

[Matchu]

It's hard to measure exactly how much of an advantage it is to be based in a 'footy state' but I don't think anyone would deny that the go-home factor is less of an issue if you're based outside of QLD or NSW so that is obviously beneficial in retaining talent. Historically, there is an undeniable link between expansion clubs (outside of NSW and QLD) and the player origin of their premiership teams. Consider this:

West Coast
'92 flag: WA players - 22/22 (100%)
'94 flag: WA players - 20/22 (90%)
'06 flag: WA players - 15/22 (68%)

Adelaide
'97 flag: SA players - 15/22 (68%)
'98 flag: SA players -

Port Adelaide
'04 flag: SA players - 12/22 (54%)

So you can see the WA and SA premiership teams were made up of more than 50% locals. How does this compare to Sydney and Brisbane premiership teams? Let's see:

Brisbane
'01 flag: QLD players - 5/22 (22%)
'02 flag: QLD players - 5/22 (22%)
'03 flag: QLD players - 7/22 (31%)

Sydney
'05 flag: NSW players - 7/22 (31%)
'12 flag: NSW players - 4/22 (18%)

So you can see there is a definite difference between successful expansion clubs in WA/SA vs successful expansion clubs in QLD/NSW. The higher numbers in 2003 and 2006 can be explained as well. By 2003 the Lions had the best of the best walking around their club and you saw a few locals like Copeland and Charman coming through the system while Sydney's NSW contingent were mostly from the Riverina/Murray area which had been taken over by GWS when their 2012 flag rolled around.

Outside of those two years you're looking at around 20% for premiership years. Compare that to the WA and SA premiership years and it's a massive difference. Is this a factor? It probably is when you consider the go-factor seems to be hurting the QLD and NSW clubs at the moment. So how do you counteract this when QLD and NSW have never had a long history of producing high-end juniors? Well, after decades of (unsuccessfully) trying their own methods, the AFL has settled on the academy system that works. We're now seeing QLD and NSW juniors regularly being draft in the top 20.

It's also important to factor in that all four academies are different in terms of geographical advantages. The biggest advantage is obvious and that's the Giants' access to the Riverina/Murray area of NSW. However, it's not just strength of local football that is advantageous - it's also population and distances between major cities. Sydney is the most populated city in Australia and it's basically split in half so GWS and the Swans are looking at over 2 million people each. The Swans also have large regional cities like Wollongong (bordering city), Newcastle (2 hours away) and the Central Coast (bordering city) to recruit from while GWS have Canberra (2.5 hours away) and the rest of the Riverina, which is generally more Aussie rules inclined than any other part of NSW or QLD. Brisbane have the Sunshine Coast (bordering city), Logan (bordering city) and Ipswich (bordering city). You also have to remember that Brisbane contains around 2 million people while the Gold Coast is sitting at about a quarter of that at around 600k.

The Suns face the most challenging situation by far. The closest large regional city for the Suns is Townsville and that's 15 hours away. The next largest regional city for the Suns is Cairns and that's 20 hours away. In fact, the closest city to the Gold Coast that is located inside their zone is Rockhampton and that's 8 hours away. So it's definitely fair to say that the Suns got the short end of the stick in that sense.

Anyway, the point is, every academy is different and they all face different challenges but there is an undeniable need for this when you consider the future success of these expansion clubs as well as growing the game nationally.

 

[mightymouse75]

Will clubs be too spooked bidding on academy players. As the northern clubs might not be as easy to trade with in the future if they feel they have been put out. With all the stock piling of talent it could be a legitimate arguement.
Another mess the afl has created.