Banter The Adelaide Board Politics/COVID Thread Part 2 (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

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You have totally missed my point. There have been numerous examples where the DOJ has ignored prosecuting the breaking of federal law because the offenders were left wing / democrats. The harrassment of sitting SC judges being but 1 example and you dont think that is a serious crime to try to intimidate the very highest court operatives. Hell one even tried to assasinate a judge very recently. That goes to the heart of democracy.

Here is senator tom cotton asking all the right questions..see the answers wray gives and then come back to me and tell me its not a 2 tiered justice system. This is slam dunk stuff but because it was leftists protesting agsinst overturning roe v wade which is against the biden democrats position, nothing to see here, no prosecutions brought..even though the crime occurred on national tv for the world to see



Now if they really did go after people without fear or favor and prosecuted democrats when they break federal laws, there would be a lot less push back and sceptesism in motives. This mar a lago raid is a political hit job..put that slogan up in neon lights because thats what it will be leading into the elections and no amount of telling us he broke the law matters when they refuse to prosecute their own

Christopher Wray sounds so aloof to answering questions in a Senate hearing. I understand somethings can not be said in front of a camera but as a public servant , he himself sounds like he is above the law. I think in Australia a law officer would be to scared to refuse to say anything in front of a Royal Commission. Something is totally wrong with their system.
 
You want to talk about equal Justice in the US I would not Us Trump as an example. try looking at the underprivileged who cannot afford a good lawyer or who do not have the popularity that Trump has,
Start sticking up for them then come on here and talk about equal justice.

As for June, you do understand his Lawyer signed written statements saying all the classified documents were returned to NARA, Why not mention the subpoena he refuse when the NARA found out he still had some of their documents?
It may come out in the next week or during the court case, That some of these documents contain National secrets that affect more than the US, Secrets people would pay huge sums to get hold off, Secrets that would put the US intelligence departments at great risk including people who acquire these secret.
We are not talking about the level of email people from both sides sent on the private server we are talking about the stuff you see in spy movies.
And if what I have heard is true some of the documents found would make Snowdon look like an armature. and may cause the loss of Life to those who gathered the information.
Would you happen if that happen?

And yes Trump has form in this area, he cause a lot of stress to several operations Australia was involved in, by releasing information and yes I know that as Fact.
just a question - are you Adam Schiff posting on these boards - you seem to be speaking exact Democrat talking points. We heard it all before leading into the Russia Hoax, then the Zelinsky phone call. The evidence is irrefutable, he's guilty, its a natiopnal security threat and the list went on..forgive me if I don't take a word of what you say as gospel and have very little faith in the 'investigations' from here.

It also seems the top brass republicans think very differently to you. Strange that if what you are saying was all true, that the very top republicans, the ones that sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee and House Judiciary Committee are not buying whats just happened and are promising to throw their full weight into proper investigation of this whole sorry mess. My money is at the end of this, it will come out as a nothing burger and will look exactly what it was - a political hit job

Interesting piece from Politifact - hardly a republican talking piece. They seem to think its uncharted territory as the president had the constitutional right to declassify documents


However, a subset of documents being sought by the government might be classified for national security reasons. If so, a law known as Section 1924 could come into play. This provision says that knowingly removing classified documents with the intent to keep them in an unauthorized location is a crime.

If charges are ever brought under the latter law, one obvious defense for Trump might be that he declassified these documents before leaving office. If that was done, then no classified documents would mean no crime.
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However, experts cautioned that nothing is ordinary about the current situation involving Trump. In such an unusual and high-stakes scenario, it’s hard to be too certain about how the courts would rule.

"We’re in uncharted territory on the issue of criminally prosecuting a former president over mishandling classified documents," Moss said. "There is no legal precedent to look to for guidance. It raises all sorts of constitutional implications and it is anyone’s guess how it would play out."

Try not to hang, draw and quarter him before the real facts come to light - not a left wing media manufactured narrative
 
I was critical at the time when they failed to go hard early before it was completely out of control as it would cost them a longer lockdown. They funked up due to incompetent leadership.
I am confused by "failed to go hard early"

Victoria called a state of emergency (the first lockdown) on 16 March. The closest stats I can find are for 12 March which show that there were 27 cases on that day.

This wikipedia article gives grinding detail. The pattern is pretty well the same each time. Victoria implemented strict lockdowns when case numbers were low, and no state went harder than Victoria.
 

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just a question - are you Adam Schiff posting on these boards - you seem to be speaking exact Democrat talking points. We heard it all before leading into the Russia Hoax, then the Zelinsky phone call. The evidence is irrefutable, he's guilty, its a natiopnal security threat and the list went on..forgive me if I don't take a word of what you say as gospel and have very little faith in the 'investigations' from here.

It also seems the top brass republicans think very differently to you. Strange that if what you are saying was all true, that the very top republicans, the ones that sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee and House Judiciary Committee are not buying whats just happened and are promising to throw their full weight into proper investigation of this whole sorry mess. My money is at the end of this, it will come out as a nothing burger and will look exactly what it was - a political hit job

Interesting piece from Politico - hardly a republican talking piece. They seem to think its uncharted territory as the president had the constitutional right to declassify documents


However, a subset of documents being sought by the government might be classified for national security reasons. If so, a law known as Section 1924 could come into play. This provision says that knowingly removing classified documents with the intent to keep them in an unauthorized location is a crime.

If charges are ever brought under the latter law, one obvious defense for Trump might be that he declassified these documents before leaving office. If that was done, then no classified documents would mean no crime.
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However, experts cautioned that nothing is ordinary about the current situation involving Trump. In such an unusual and high-stakes scenario, it’s hard to be too certain about how the courts would rule.

"We’re in uncharted territory on the issue of criminally prosecuting a former president over mishandling classified documents," Moss said. "There is no legal precedent to look to for guidance. It raises all sorts of constitutional implications and it is anyone’s guess how it would play out."

Try not to hang, draw and quarter him before the real facts come to light - not a left wing media manufactured narrative
Mate, I am Australian,
Here is a huge question and one I don't believe you do not fully understand
Do you know exactly what Top Secret SCI means,
Here is a start those documents can only be viewed in a secured Location full stop, because of the sensitive information they have.
They are of a national security level, and people who have access to them apart from the president need to go thru years of investigation, just to get to that level of access.
And they cannot be declassified full stop.

And again you do understand what The FBI found
1 set of Top Secret /SCI dopcuments
4 sets of Top Secret document
3 sets of secret documents
3 sets of confidential documents
 
Mate, I am Australian,
Here is a huge question and one I don't believe you do not fully understand
Do you know exactly what Top Secret SCI means,
Here is a start those documents can only be viewed in a secured Location full stop, because of the sensitive information they have.
They are of a national security level, and people who have access to them apart from the president need to go thru years of investigation, just to get to that level of access.
And they cannot be declassified full stop.

And again you do understand what The FBI found
1 set of Top Secret /SCI dopcuments
4 sets of Top Secret document
3 sets of secret documents
3 sets of confidential documents
its like groundhog day here with you

18 months, Officials at Mar A Lago in June had full access to the records and even requested Trump lock the door where the records were being kept. Trump says he declassified them making the top secret listing irrelevent. Senior republicans are already promising full scale investigations in the the FBI and DOJ over this.

Would you like to keep on this merry go round? because nothing you are saying changes the above

Stop trying to hang the guy before all the evidence - proper evidence - comes out
 
its like groundhog day here with you

18 months, Officials at Mar A Lago in June had full access to the records and even requested Trump lock the door where the records were being kept. Trump says he declassified them. Senior republicans are already promising full scale investigations in the the FBI and DOJ over this.

Would you like to keep on this merry go round? because nothing you are saying changes the above

Stop trying to hang the guy before all the evidence - proper evidence - comes out
Yea groundhog day,
Trump did not return all the documents he should have even thou his lawyer said he did, that was the reason for a 2nd subpoena which facilitated the need for a warrant to retrieve the documents.
Question why did he feel the need to hold onto top secret documents.
Why did his lawyer say all those documents were handed over in June?
And what was he doing with top secret SCI document at Mara a Largo in the first place?

And I am not hanging the guy he is, Those documents were found in his private residence,

As for a merry-go-round feel free, but first, tell me why those documents were there in the first place.
 
I am confused by "failed to go hard early"

Victoria called a state of emergency (the first lockdown) on 16 March. The closest stats I can find are for 12 March which show that there were 27 cases on that day.

This wikipedia article gives grinding detail. The pattern is pretty well the same each time. Victoria implemented strict lockdowns when case numbers were low, and no state went harder than Victoria.
I commented at the time as did a few others that the Victorian Government were making a huge error by initially having a part lockdown in the suburbs around the flats. At that time they needed a quick full lockdown to contain covid before it got out of control. By the time they did have a full lockdown, the genie was out of the bottle. What could have been contained in weeks or a month instead took a world record.

Then there is the hotel quarantine mismanagement...
 
Yea groundhog day,
Trump did not return all the documents he should have even thou his lawyer said he did, that was the reason for a 2nd subpoena which facilitated the need for a warrant to retrieve the documents.
Question why did he feel the need to hold onto top secret documents.
Why did his lawyer say all those documents were handed over in June?
And what was he doing with top secret SCI document at Mara a Largo in the first place?

And I am not hanging the guy he is, Those documents were found in his private residence,

As for a merry-go-round feel free, but first, tell me why those documents were there in the first place.
here is where that is not right. His lawyer said all CLASSIFIED documents were handed over in June. Trump says all docs he still had were DECLASSIFIED

As for the other questions, who knows why he had docs there - you don't know, I don't know and sure as hell the WaPO and CNN don't know

Again, onto the merry go round as if he did Declassify the documents and has not lied about that, it makes everything else irrelevant

Could the Warrant itself come back to be a problem for going against the 4th Amendment?

 
I commented at the time as did a few others that the Victorian Government were making a huge error by initially having a part lockdown in the suburbs around the flats. At that time they needed a quick full lockdown to contain covid before it got out of control. By the time they did have a full lockdown, the genie was out of the bottle. What could have been contained in weeks or a month instead took a world record.

Then there is the hotel quarantine mismanagement...

Political image regardless of the issue is always going to win the day. At the stage of covid first hitting and they did part lockdowns they were frightened of the backlash of a full lockdown. Just like Marshall was frightened about being seen as the decision maker, so he hid like a coward behind the covid committee. Its all image first. It sucks and it obviously cost lives in Victoria.
 
here is where that is not right. His lawyer said all CLASSIFIED documents were handed over in June. Trump says all docs he still had were DECLASSIFIED

As for the other questions, who knows why he had docs there - you don't know, I don't know and sure as hell the WaPO and CNN don't know

Again, onto the merry go round as if he did Declassify the documents and has not lied about that, it makes everything else irrelevant

Could the Warrant itself come back to be a problem for going against the 4th Amendment?


All I am refusing to make judgements on Trump about this until the evidence is produced. But its unlikely that the FBI would be able to get a federal search warrant without any evidence to begin with.
 
Are people here really claiming it isn’t politically motivated? Lol.

You might as well ride into the thread on a horse and cart and tell us Graham Cornes should still be coaching the Crows. That would be less quaint and less out of touch with reality.

Of course it’s f*cking politically motivated — that’s a feature, not a bug.

I’m racking my brain to figure out why the leftists in here are at such pains to run with the deluded opinion that this is all just the rule of law in progress, that the same thing would’ve happened to absolutely anyone else…

And all I can come up with is that you have to tell yourself this to avoid facing the horrible reality of what Trump — or anyone from the non-establishment right — might do when and if they retake power.

And I agree — it is horrifying when institutions become completely politicized.

We’ve been trying to tell you exactly what that looks like. The last two years of the health bureaucracy on steroids is just a small taste. But when law enforcement agencies join in, it starts to get really fu*cking scary.

But you w***ers on the left have made your bed on this. Now you have to see it through. All of it.

So let’s see how it pans out for you.
 
here is where that is not right. His lawyer said all CLASSIFIED documents were handed over in June. Trump says all docs he still had were DECLASSIFIED

As for the other questions, who knows why he had docs there - you don't know, I don't know and sure as hell the WaPO and CNN don't know

Again, onto the merry go round as if he did Declassify the documents and has not lied about that, it makes everything else irrelevant

Could the Warrant itself come back to be a problem for going against the 4th Amendment?

There are certain steps required by a fitting president when declassifying documents and for a good reason,
If trump declassified the document he did not follow the correct steps.
Also, he cannot declassify Top secret SCI documents,
However
The biggest problem with this whole declassified document argument is, that the warrant and charges do not relate to classification levels but to the document required by law to be stored in a secure location
This declassified document is an argument they will use to stop Trump from answering a more serious charge related to the Top secret document station including the Top Secret SCI because that whole new level of charges
And the warrant will not be a problem, there is a very good reason they took a while they need to cross the t's and dot i's, because of who they were dealing with.
Trump was found to document belonging to the NARA in a private residence which was the reason for the warrant.

End of the day he had the documents in his private residence, he should have just handed them up in June when 1st subpoenaed.
Time will tell He should have burnt the top secret documents when he had the chance. he stuffed up. maybe he started believing he was above the law.
 
All I am refusing to make judgements on Trump about this until the evidence is produced. But its unlikely that the FBI would be able to get a federal search warrant without any evidence to begin with.
and you could be right. The worry is that the people that signed off on the warrant didn't do so for the right reasons and hence there will be investigations into in after mid terms. Lets see all the evidence and have both sides put their arguments forward
 

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I commented at the time as did a few others that the Victorian Government were making a huge error by initially having a part lockdown in the suburbs around the flats. At that time they needed a quick full lockdown to contain covid before it got out of control. By the time they did have a full lockdown, the genie was out of the bottle. What could have been contained in weeks or a month instead took a world record.

Then there is the hotel quarantine mismanagement...
The Andrews government was and is abysmal.

Your argument assumes a basic competence which is completely beyond them. If they had worked to avoid a "quick full lockdown" it might have happened, but hard to see otherwise.
 
The Andrews government was and is abysmal.

Your argument assumes a basic competence which is completely beyond them. If they had worked to avoid a "quick full lockdown" it might have happened, but hard to see otherwise.
I made the point many times at the time of the soft half-arsed lockdown as did others. We were proven right unfortunately.
 
There are certain steps required by a fitting president when declassifying documents and for a good reason,
If trump declassified the document he did not follow the correct steps.
Also, he cannot declassify Top secret SCI documents,
However
The biggest problem with this whole declassified document argument is, that the warrant and charges do not relate to classification levels but to the document required by law to be stored in a secure location
This declassified document is an argument they will use to stop Trump from answering a more serious charge related to the Top secret document station including the Top Secret SCI because that whole new level of charges
And the warrant will not be a problem, there is a very good reason they took a while they need to cross the t's and dot i's, because of who they were dealing with.
Trump was found to document belonging to the NARA in a private residence which was the reason for the warrant.

End of the day he had the documents in his private residence, he should have just handed them up in June when 1st subpoenaed.
Time will tell He should have burnt the top secret documents when he had the chance. he stuffed up. maybe he started believing he was above the law.
this was an interesting dive into the bolded bit. Again, what you are saying is by no means black and white


Risch said, "The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."

We found broad agreement that a president, using powers granted by the Constitution, is able to declassify essentially anything. However, experts added that Risch’s comment was not entirely on point for the particular situation involving Trump.
 
Are people here really claiming it isn’t politically motivated? Lol.

You might as well ride into the thread on a horse and cart and tell us Graham Cornes should still be coaching the Crows. That would be less quaint and less out of touch with reality.

Of course it’s f*cking politically motivated — that’s a feature, not a bug.

I’m racking my brain to figure out why the leftists in here are at such pains to run with the deluded opinion that this is all just the rule of law in progress, that the same thing would’ve happened to absolutely anyone else…

And all I can come up with is that you have to tell yourself this to avoid facing the horrible reality of what Trump — or anyone from the non-establishment right — might do when and if they retake power.

And I agree — it is horrifying when institutions become completely politicized.

We’ve been trying to tell you exactly what that looks like. The last two years of the health bureaucracy on steroids is just a small taste. But when law enforcement agencies join in, it starts to get really fu*cking scary.

But you w***ers on the left have made your bed on this. Now you have to see it through. All of it.

So let’s see how it pans out for you.
Mate if the documents were only secret and confidential then yes I would have agreed it was politically motivated.
But Top Secret and Top Secret SCI, store in a private residence that is not political.
And the NARA I not a political organisation and they were the ones who started this. For them to get involved some knowledge of the documentation would have been of a more serious nature otherwise they would go down a different path.

Not being Politcal left or right, and yes I don't trust Trump I have a personal reason for that. But What I do know is when certain non-partisan organisations get involved its a whole new level of problems and when its about Top Secret /SCI then that's on another plane.
 
and you could be right. The worry is that the people that signed off on the warrant didn't do so for the right reasons and hence there will be investigations into in after mid terms. Lets see all the evidence and have both sides put their arguments forward

You simply cant get a judge to sign a federal search warrant because they dont like someone. Its a ridiculous notion. This isnt some leftist bs trying to get their hands on Trump. The law is the law and they simply cant just make crap up because they dislike Trump. This does highlight the very issue with US politics though and how every administration can appoint people in positions of immense power. It opens the door for corruption or at the very least, pose the doubt agencies such as the FBI are working without political influence. Which in itself can sway jury's. Trump knows this hence his immediate attack on the white house and the influence on the FBI. Yet he fails to acknowledge how he himself influenced FBI investigations by consistently sacking directors who had to do their job and investigate the Russian involvement in the election.

Honestly though, regardless whether the White House might be involved in the investigation, they will have no power or sway over a judge to get a search warrant. There must be sufficient evidence and it can't be flimsy.
 
and you could be right. The worry is that the people that signed off on the warrant didn't do so for the right reasons and hence there will be investigations into in after mid terms. Lets see all the evidence and have both sides put their arguments forward
Right or wrong reasons the Warrant was well thought out, and Trump did have the documents.

As for the mid-terms, you should take a closer look at Five thirty-eight deluxe models Nevada, Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania are looking very Blue.
those 4 states were part of the red wave, and important for the GOP in the senate race. have mentioned before 7 states control this year's senate and 4 are going Blue at this time.
And yes my extended US family keeps me informed of the latest polling.
At this time I doubt any of this will affect the result to the extent wade vs roe issue did.
The House I a different story GOP should still win that, but the red wave is almost a red crawl,
This in a year when historically there is always a wave against the sitting president especially at a time when the president has a record low approval rating
 
this was an interesting dive into the bolded bit. Again, what you are saying is by no means black and white


Risch said, "The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."

We found broad agreement that a president, using powers granted by the Constitution, is able to declassify essentially anything. However, experts added that Risch’s comment was not entirely on point for the particular situation involving Trump.
Top secret SCI documents can only be read in a secure location and must not be removed, they contain national security information. a lot of time indicationing their sources, if revealed will place these sources in extreme danger, if you get the gist, they can also relate to Nuclear secrets,
SCI is another level.

But at the end of the day that is not what got Trump into trouble, the simple fact he had those documents in his private residence is what get him into trouble.
 
Top secret SCI documents can only be read in a secure location and must not be removed, they contain national security information. a lot of time indicationing their sources, if revealed will place these sources in extreme danger, if you get the gist, they can also relate to Nuclear secrets,
SCI is another level.

But at the end of the day that is not what got Trump into trouble, the simple fact he had those documents in his private residence is what get him into trouble.
You left off the end bit..under a 2 tiered justice system where if you are of the right political persuasion you can openly break federal laws and harrass supreme court judges and are immune from prosecution amogst other things.

Neon lights heading to midterms remember..a political stitch up
 
You left off the end bit..under a 2 tiered justice system where if you are of the right political persuasion you can openly break federal laws and harrass supreme court judges and are immune from prosecution amogst other things.

Neon lights heading to midterms remember..a political stitch up
Mate don't give a s**t about the politics and all the bull that goes with it,
But Trump stuffed up and he most likely will be charged, there is no hiding the simple fact he had Documented in his Private residence that he had no legal requirement to.
No matter how you look at it the no way anyone can say he did not have those documents.

And if what I have heard was contained in the Document he deserves Prison time. Anyone else would have been in jail awaiting Bail, anyone else would have been harangued by the MAGA group. but Trump escapes all that, He is not above the law. even if he believes it.
 
Mate don't give a s**t about the politics and all the bull that goes with it,
But Trump stuffed up and he most likely will be charged, there is no hiding the simple fact he had Documented in his Private residence that he had no legal requirement to.
No matter how you look at it the no way anyone can say he did not have those documents.

And if what I have heard was contained in the Document he deserves Prison time. Anyone else would have been in jail awaiting Bail, anyone else would have been harangued by the MAGA group. but Trump escapes all that, He is not above the law. even if he believes it.
And around in circles we go again. Come back to me when the DOJ and FBI start applying the laws evenly and dont just hunt and prosecute conservatives.

Btw..interesting you have heard whats in the boxes? Makes it smell even worse that not only did they wait 18 months, had agents there in June this year AND asked him to lock the room they were in, had a warrant granted (from a low level judge mind that there is fair conjecture he should have recused himself from being a part of for conflict of interest)..and then it was so top secret and in the national interest that they sat on the warrant, granted for 2 weeks mind, for 3 whole days before they raided his residence.

Yeah..national interest.

Its a political hit job
 
Mate..the head of the senate judiciary committee has already demanded wray answer questions on all of this and made the point of highlighting hilary clinton and has demanded equal justice as she did the same thing and no charges were laid. You have no idea how angry the conservatives are over this and they have already said as soon as the mid terms are won they are going straight to investigations into this and will have subpoena powers. Jim jordan and chuck grassley are 2 guys that dont give a s**t about left wing media pressure and both have threatened whats now coming if equal justice is denied

Drink
 
And around in circles we go again. Come back to me when the DOJ and FBI start applying the laws evenly and dont just hunt and prosecute conservatives.

Btw..interesting you have heard whats in the boxes? Makes it smell even worse that not only did they wait 18 months, had agents there in June this year AND asked him to lock the room they were in, had a warrant granted (from a low level judge mind that there is fair conjecture he should have recused himself from being a part of for conflict of interest)..and then it was so top secret and in the national interest that they sat on the warrant, granted for 2 weeks mind, for 3 whole days before they raided his residence.

Yeah..national interest.

Its a political hit job
Round and round we go.
Trump had 18 months to return all the documents, NARA have been requesting these documents since he left office, Only after they approach the DOJ who issue the 1st subpoena did Trump return any documents, At that time his lawyer sign off that all the documents were returned in June NARA found out they were not again the DOJ became involved and requested the ret of the Documents again they were forced to issue a subpoena which was not followed, so they went to the next step of getting a warrant, Historically the DOJ does not like doing this within 90 days of an election which is why they went on Monday. At this time the GOP party are the only group that pushes for a criminal investigation to be announced close to an election. Historical data out there to prove that.

As for the context of the documentation it is all at the classification level. Top Secret/SCI make it impossible to ignore the severity and 99.9999% of the time points to national security documents. That is why I don't believe you even understand what that documentation means

Trump stuffed up big time and it going to bite him
 
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