Banter The Adelaide Board Politics/COVID Thread Part 2 (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

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I don't know. But the overarching point that the country is totally cooked stands firm. Their system of government and governing is broken in terms of what it can do for the average person. It's working perfectly for the corporations and big money, though. By design.

It may well be broken, but it is their system. But prior to the SC balance being reversed, how many of the marching lunatics do you think were against the system as a whole? SC rocks when it supports R v W, but according to these people, the system is broken when that interpretation is reversed.

And that argument is exceedingly subjective and repeated by vast segments of the heavy left across the globe. I don't think that group is capable of isolating the simplicity of what actually happened here and separating it from their personal views. I look at this decision and say, 'well, that makes sense in terms of interpreting that particular constitutional right'. I don't see how so many can be seen as the SC banning abortion themselves. If you're so passionate about an issue, surely you ensure you have some actual knowledge of the mechanics that surround it.

And as posted yesterday, I can't see how the SC interpreted the NY carry matter the way they did. I'm no lawyer, but a guiding principle is what would a reasonable person conclude. That amendment to me is very clear. It provides protection for citizens who use weapons as part of an organised militia with the purpose of defending the country from alien attack. There's a few arguments in and around that, but I think it's beyond doubt that wandering around with a concealed firearm is a long way from the original intent of that right. Arguing about types of weapons though, is infantile. As the tech from potential invaders develops, so does the arsenal enshrined within that right. If China presented on the shores, are these militia seriously expected to bear muskets in defence?

My question really surrounds the right to bear against the right to have awaiting that right. And then what was the intent of the day and whether in current times there remains any relevance. But arguing over single shot weapons and AR15s is miles off IMO.
 
It may well be broken, but it is their system. But prior to the SC balance being reversed, how many of the marching lunatics do you think were against the system as a whole? SC rocks when it supports R v W, but according to these people, the system is broken when that interpretation is reversed.

And that argument is exceedingly subjective and repeated by vast segments of the heavy left across the globe. I don't think that group is capable of isolating the simplicity of what actually happened here and separating it from their personal views. I look at this decision and say, 'well, that makes sense in terms of interpreting that particular constitutional right'. I don't see how so many can be seen as the SC banning abortion themselves. If you're so passionate about an issue, surely you ensure you have some actual knowledge of the mechanics that surround it.

And as posted yesterday, I can't see how the SC interpreted the NY carry matter the way they did. I'm no lawyer, but a guiding principle is what would a reasonable person conclude. That amendment to me is very clear. It provides protection for citizens who use weapons as part of an organised militia with the purpose of defending the country from alien attack. There's a few arguments in and around that, but I think it's beyond doubt that wandering around with a concealed firearm is a long way from the original intent of that right. Arguing about types of weapons though, is infantile. As the tech from potential invaders develops, so does the arsenal enshrined within that right. If China presented on the shores, are these militia seriously expected to bear muskets in defence?

My question really surrounds the right to bear against the right to have awaiting that right. And then what was the intent of the day and whether in current times there remains any relevance. But arguing over single shot weapons and AR15s is miles off IMO.

You’re assuming that serving the constitution, a now centuries old legal document, should be the end in and of itself for the Supreme Court and the US government.

It’s not, no law should be. The ‘end’ for these institutions should be to improve the lives and wellbeing of the people they govern. Laws and how we interpret them should be considered a means to do this. If a law is outdated and not meeting this end, then it should be changed. That’s why “the SC rocks when it supports R v W … but the system is broken when that interpretation is reversed”.

If these institutions seek to change these laws or bend their interpretations of them to diminish the quality of life for their constituents as they have done here, then in my view they have failed in their primary duty.
 
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Ive got no problem with abortion for any reason up to 12-15 weeks, later for any medical issues.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, taking away the choice for the biggest "decision" of your life is ludicrous.

People should have kids when they are ready, not when one slips through to the keeper.

Agree with the intention wholeheartedly, except the arbitrary weeks rule. I don't have enough skin in the game to support arbitrary numbers, but I concur with the principle. Ie, is 11-14 or 13-16 functionally any different to 12-15 and who do we trust to make that call? I know that lines need to be drawn, but I don't feel like I have the right to inject myself into that discussion.
 

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Seriously when you here that the people can vote the legislators out - I just have to laugh.

Why?

Because guess what, the individual states and the USA as a whole don’t have an impartial Electoral Commission like we do.

* me dead, some of you would fit in perfectly in the mid-West and Deep South states.

So you support the system that grants power to the SC based upon presidential appointments? You should be thrilled old son, system working perfectly then. Oh, let me guess, as long as the SC exerts the philosophy aligned with your beliefs. But now, not so much. I do get it, simple people are simple. And then there's bank Johnnies.
 
Or access to education for women and non-whites, or ownership of another human being, or criminalisation of sodomy, etc. These were all the “status quo” at one point or another, and rightfully society has progressed since those days. We are better for it.

The point is that some (not all, but some) laws reflect fundamental human rights for any citizen of the United States, or Australia, or any advanced democracy, that should be so deeply entrenched in legislation that once they are established as the law of the land, they are extremely difficult to change. This is particularly important when it comes to defending equality under the law for the rights of minority groups.

They certainly shouldn’t be subject to mob rule and changed at a whim from state to state and election to election based on which way the wind is blowing. Reproductive health care fits in that category for me.

Erode those rights, and you erode the right to demand people take responsibility as citizens on the other side of the ledger. This is where “no taxation without representation” came from.

talk about missing the reality by an absolute mile. Kudos.
 
You’re assuming that serving the constitution, a now centuries old legal document, should be the end in and of itself for the Supreme Court and the US government.

It’s not, no law should be. The ‘end’ for these institutions should be to improve the lives and wellbeing of the people they govern. Laws and how we interpret them should be considered a means to do this. If a law is outdated and not meeting this end, then it should be changed. That’s why “the SC rocks when it supports R v W … but the system is broken when that interpretation is reversed”.

If these institutions seek to change these laws or bend their interpretations of them to diminish the quality of life for their constituents as they have done here, then in my view they have failed in their primary duty.

Should we delete our constitution along with the US version? They should never be prescriptive documents, but I don't think a lifetime public servant understands anything but prescription.
 
Not at all.

got a question, answering former or latter only, do you think that the law surrounding abortion should be decided by the unrepresentative presidential elected swill of the Supreme Court or should the people decide via their democratic right at state elections? Just note that it's a binary question. I doubt you'll answer.
 
Should we delete our constitution along with the US version? They should never be prescriptive documents, but I don't think a lifetime public servant understands anything but prescription.

I don’t think you actually read or understood the post you quoted. That is exactly what I said.

I’ll try to simplify it for you. Any piece of legislation, including a constitution, should be considered as an evolving document that is updated as required to ensure the prosperity and wellbeing of the population they are intended to serve.

You’re the one who is arguing they should be followed for the sake of following them, and that laws written hundreds of years ago should be treated as though they are set in stone purely for the sake of it, rather than whether they actually better the lives of the citizens they govern.
 
I don’t think you actually read or understood the post you quoted. That is exactly what I said.

I’ll try to simplify it for you. Any piece of legislation, including a constitution, should be considered as an evolving document that is updated as required to ensure the prosperity and wellbeing of the population they are intended to serve.

You’re the one who is arguing they should be followed for the sake of following them, and that laws written hundreds of years ago should be treated as though they are set in stone purely for the sake of it, rather than whether they actually better the lives of the citizens they govern.

Hold on, aren't you arguing the opposite? Explain how you disagree with the interpretation.
 
I don’t think you actually read or understood the post you quoted. That is exactly what I said.

I’ll try to simplify it for you. Any piece of legislation, including a constitution, should be considered as an evolving document that is updated as required to ensure the prosperity and wellbeing of the population they are intended to serve.

You’re the one who is arguing they should be followed for the sake of following them, and that laws written hundreds of years ago should be treated as though they are set in stone purely for the sake of it, rather than whether they actually better the lives of the citizens they govern.

I do think now, there is a culture of cherry picking the constitution and using the weakest and asinine arguments to obtain results. This is purely achieved by judges almost expected to toe the party line rather than the law they are supposed to serve. The fact courts are choosing to blatantly ignore the second part of the sentence in regards to the 2nd amendment to just uphold the part about the right to bear arms says everything you need to know about how bad the system is right now.
 

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So you support the system that grants power to the SC based upon presidential appointments? You should be thrilled old son, system working perfectly then. Oh, let me guess, as long as the SC exerts the philosophy aligned with your beliefs. But now, not so much. I do get it, simple people are simple. And then there's bank Johnnies.

That isn’t what I said - they have a corrupt political system to keep people in power and utilise it in drawing the boundaries (both Democrats and Republicans).

They could learn to have our electoral system which has the check and balances. Everyone complains our two party system but at least we get independent senators and don’t have rules like the filibuster. The USA only has a two party system which is broken.
 
I don’t think you actually read or understood the post you quoted. That is exactly what I said.

I’ll try to simplify it for you. Any piece of legislation, including a constitution, should be considered as an evolving document that is updated as required to ensure the prosperity and wellbeing of the population they are intended to serve.

You’re the one who is arguing they should be followed for the sake of following them, and that laws written hundreds of years ago should be treated as though they are set in stone purely for the sake of it, rather than whether they actually better the lives of the citizens they govern.

no, you're wrong, as always. What you impose on the highest arbiter is ridiculous. You're demanding the exact same outcome from unrepresentative swill that you decry. You love the SC interpretation back in the 70s but hate it now. That particular clause has now been interpreted twice in the last 40 years. I'm not following anything, I disagree with the original view, whilst being a proponent of personal choice. And I've made it clear that I've been involved in both my own personal abortion decision and another as support for a loved friend.

The difference between you and I is that i can prosecute a view without being encumbered by a fundamental belief without understanding. You have had the opportunity to renounce late term abortion, which I fundamentally agree with, but you refuse to do so.
 
no, you're wrong, as always. What you impose on the highest arbiter is ridiculous. You're demanding the exact same outcome from unrepresentative swill that you decry. You love the SC interpretation back in the 70s but hate it now. That particular clause has now been interpreted twice in the last 40 years. I'm not following anything, I disagree with the original view, whilst being a proponent of personal choice. And I've made it clear that I've been involved in both my own personal abortion decision and another as support for a loved friend.

The difference between you and I is that i can prosecute a view without being encumbered by a fundamental belief without understanding. You have had the opportunity to renounce late term abortion, which I fundamentally agree with, but you refuse to do so.

What I think you are missing is the fact many republican states have outright made any abortion illegal and its on the back of religion. I get what you are saying with late term abortion. Everyone agrees with you. He is arguing more of the line of the SC cherry picking a decision to suit a republican narrative. This is dangerous when you have no separation between judges and political parties. Judges are 100% expected at all times to follow the party narrative. This is what people are against. Rather than reverse a decision, it should have simply made an amendment against term abortions.
 
That isn’t what I said - they have a corrupt political system to keep people in power and utilise it in drawing the boundaries (both Democrats and Republicans).

They could learn to have our electoral system which has the check and balances. Everyone complains our two party system but at least we get independent senators and don’t have rules like the filibuster. The USA only has a two party system which is broken.

Constitutionally our senators were intended to be state based and not party based. It is a form of protection from the populace states gaining control of commonwealth legislation. We're not really that different, our system of government doesn't actually operate as intended.
 
I do think now, there is a culture of cherry picking the constitution and using the weakest and asinine arguments to obtain results. This is purely achieved by judges almost expected to toe the party line rather than the law they are supposed to serve. The fact courts are choosing to blatantly ignore the second part of the sentence in regards to the 2nd amendment to just uphold the part about the right to bear arms says everything you need to know about how bad the system is right now.

This is literally a kindergarten understanding of the system. FFS, just learn a little bit.
 
This is literally a kindergarten understanding of the system. FFS, just learn a little bit.

They are cherry picking the constitution. If you cant figure that out you have no business commenting. I know people in the states moron and they all say the same thing including the media....but because its not fox I guess it doesnt count for you.
 
What I think you are missing is the fact many republican states have outright made any abortion illegal and its on the back of religion. I get what you are saying with late term abortion. Everyone agrees with you. He is arguing more of the line of the SC cherry picking a decision to suit a republican narrative. This is dangerous when you have no separation between judges and political parties. Judges are 100% expected at all times to follow the party narrative. This is what people are against. Rather than reverse a decision, it should have simply made an amendment against term abortions.
Republican only?


Anti-abortion laws have been signed into law in Louisiana by two Democratic governors
 
That isn’t what I said - they have a corrupt political system to keep people in power and utilise it in drawing the boundaries (both Democrats and Republicans).

They could learn to have our electoral system which has the check and balances. Everyone complains our two party system but at least we get independent senators and don’t have rules like the filibuster. The USA only has a two party system which is broken.

You're still not understanding their system. And our Senators, by design are state based, not intended to be party aligned, which they are. Our systen isn't much less broken than their's. I still don't understand poster's high headedness on this.
 
That isn’t what I said - they have a corrupt political system to keep people in power and utilise it in drawing the boundaries (both Democrats and Republicans).

They could learn to have our electoral system which has the check and balances. Everyone complains our two party system but at least we get independent senators and don’t have rules like the filibuster. The USA only has a two party system which is broken.

I don't know, this event has made me look at our own high court and how those justices are appointed. We don't seem to be too different, except that our highest authority doesn't feel that they have the authority to make prescriptive law.
 
What I think you are missing is the fact many republican states have outright made any abortion illegal and its on the back of religion. I get what you are saying with late term abortion. Everyone agrees with you. He is arguing more of the line of the SC cherry picking a decision to suit a republican narrative. This is dangerous when you have no separation between judges and political parties. Judges are 100% expected at all times to follow the party narrative. This is what people are against. Rather than reverse a decision, it should have simply made an amendment against term abortions.

How many have made abortion flat out illegal?
 
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