The Advantage Rule

kosifantutti

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#51
Brad Hill today picked up the ball after a free was paid to Freo. His momentum took him over the boundary but the umpire called advantage as he jogged back into play. Then the boundary umpire blows his whistle. End result, throw in.

The rule is terrible and just causes so much confusion. Don’t blow the whistle unless you want play to stop.
 

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JoondalupJ

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#52
The advantage rule can be a curse. I think split second advantage decisions are dangerous and sometimes create mayhem, I would not have an advantage rule at all!
 

lordbob

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#53
Anyone who thinks there was enough time to take the advantage has no idea. They showed it from the other angle and as soon as the ump signaled what the free was for, worpel held the ball up immediately. The signal for what the free was, came after he had started running.

Note the time on the video is less than 1 second between frames


 
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#54
Worpel here is being penalised as if he's 'stepped off his mark'... but it's not his free kick. It's a confusion of two rules imo.

Besides doesn't really pass the sniff test, players puts his hand in the air and stops when he could've kicked... not really taking the advantage.
 

dewcefault

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#55
The rule has a long way to go. That's a pretty bad call with Worpel but it's one of many bad calls.

Players also regularly 'take advantage' after everyone has already stopped (including the player who then decides to sprint and pick up the ball).
I thought the rule was once everyone has stopped after the whistle you can't take advantage.
 

HawkMongrel

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#57
easy, do as in soccer. wait to see if the team deserving the free kick gets the ball and can do something with it, if not call it back. simples
This.

I’ve been saying this for years. Soccer has this working beautifully. It’s so simple.

Unfortunately “simple” and “AFL” don’t go into the same sentence.
 

HawkMongrel

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#60
NO !!!

You can't have two bites at the cherry.

This is why the Advantage rule is such a farce.
See, it’s that mentality that makes the AFL put in confusing rules.

Accept that if there’s no whiste play goes on, and if there’s no genuine advantage to the team the pull it back.

That way nobody stops for a whistle until they actually have to stop. As it stands advantage can result in one player running off into goal unimpeded while 35 other players are standing still trying to understand who just got a free kick.

This whole idea of having a split second to decide whether you have advantage or not is idiotic at best.
 

blackcat

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#61
The difficult part is how to fix this without making the players take their free kicks and not play on to avoid more congestion. Potentially take a leaf from netball's book that if the advantage call doesn't directly advantage the team taking it, they then bring it back.
options:
(i) delay whistle and don't call the free adjudication which itself could bring player hesitation expecting the call.
(ii) knowledge players do need some time to assess options so bringing legs to a direct halt to decipher an advantage is JUST NOT PRACTICAL. Therefore, there needs to be an explicit 'lag' written in to the rules.
(iii) obvious non-advantage situations need to be brought back

*cognition required that the whistle will axiomatically act like a Pavlov dog trigger and play stutters. Thus, judicion must be exercised.
 

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blackcat

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#62
Worpel doesn't even know who's free kick it is yet - the umpire blows the whistle, signals the free kick and calls plays on all in one motion. It takes about 1 second :eek:
no, that does not describe the dynamic. Play has been interrpted, and all it requires is a whistle to be catalyst in the player's mind by hearing this whistle. They have had TWELVE12* years of experience knowing that high requency means play interrpts on orders of umpire. It does not matter how soon an umpire broadcasts "advantage advantage advantage", actually, the sooner the umpire issues that instruction the more likely the player has not had time to assess advantage.

*12years an arbitrary heuristic
 

blackcat

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#63
The advantage rule can be a curse. I think split second advantage decisions are dangerous and sometimes create mayhem, I would not have an advantage rule at all!
this^

it can work w tweaking. problem is AFL addicted to tweaking NOTmeth in Fresno w Walter blanc.

worked better when umps controlled adv. even with Ray'Azaria'Chamberlain. but world work even better tweaked on ice

evo
 

blackcat

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#64
Have never ever liked the 'Advantage Rule' as at times it provides too much of an advantage and on other times, the player tackling the Advantage player gets penalised unfairly.

Way too much confusion created by an unnecessary rule.
see, if you neutralise adv.rule you by default accept (potential*) disadvantage free-kick rule.

*what is this potential in reality... prolly miniscule and just like Tom Hawkins v Hawthorn goal that hit the post in the Grandfinal this GRS tail-wagging-dog system lead to consistent flaws, problems, issues, complaints, and caused a significant problem entirely of its own making which is the interruption of the game, and like Dimma said it saps momentum of a team if indeed they had momentum.

*the lot of life of the fan is to c.o.m.p.l.a.i.n
Tom Hawkins goalpost or not.

AFL have never adequately addressed this cos quite frankly they are a bunch of idjits. Simple geometry from a grade 4 mathematician tells you one goal umpire cannot triangulate passage of the ball accurately and two umpires are not going to be perfect. An umpire on the goalline will not be able to trace the arc of a ball 18 metres up over a 12 metre post nor a ball shaving the post barely deflecting on its trajectory like Hawkins. Waleed Aly said something about DRS in cricket on the Offsiders that it is not solution but false economy/negative economy/diseconomy. cricket spurred DRS strrategy and tactics that are foreign to the game. (re:tactics concerning technology or silicon sublimation pigskin tape on edge of bat)
 

JoondalupJ

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#65
I've said before, the advantage rule can sometimes totally cruel a team , its because of that split second of mind making up by umpires, these guys are supposed to be magicians, they aren't. Its a hard job!
But too many mistakes, because of decisions and confusion of players as we have seen recently players stuff up themselves , how is that an advantage, it needs to be done away with. or if there is a mistake or a misunderstanding the umpire should have the power to bring the advantaged player back and let him have a free kick, or can the rule completely.

Why have the AFL got rules that actually disadvantage teams sometimes,Surely they have peopl;e with enough sense in the admin to get this right, and stop teams sometimes being , as the old saying goes , robbed!!


Gil McGlachlan is a pig headed individual who is always correct , in his own mind.

Believe me, he is not always correct!
 

RedV3x

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#66
easy, do as in soccer. wait to see if the team deserving the free kick gets the ball and can do something with it, if not call it back. simples
And that's the way it used to operate before the AFL decided it was necessary to introduce this law.
I was at umpire's training when they introduced this new law.
At the time it was understood that an umpire would only blow his whistle if there was a need to.
I could see the value in signalling an infringement had been spotted by the umpire but
I could also see that blowing a whistle would confuse players and that has been the case.
I still believe that a whistle should equate to a free kick.

Presently, a player can be in the relative open can hear the whistle and think 'that's advantage'
but if the free kick whistle was for the other team then the player risks a 50m penalty.
Stop the confusion and whistle only for free kicks.
 

Hoops

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#68
Umpire blows whistle for the free. Yells "advantage" if the opportunity arises and with the next breath yells "taken" if player takes advantage or calls it back if player opts not to take advantage or is tackled, ball comes loose, out of bounds...
 

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#69
I have always thought the advantage rule is a simple problem to solve, and that is probably why the AFL can't fix it.

As it stands, the problem is players hear the whistle so they stop. Players are taught from underage days to play to the whistle. All we need to do is train umpires to spot a free kick, give it a couple of seconds to see if any advantage was gained. If not, blow the whistle and bring it back. Not difficult to do, surely.
 

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#70
I have always thought the advantage rule is a simple problem to solve, and that is probably why the AFL can't fix it.

As it stands, the problem is players hear the whistle so they stop. Players are taught from underage days to play to the whistle. All we need to do is train umpires to (A)spot a free kick, give it a couple of seconds to see if any advantage was gained. If not, (B)blow the whistle and bring it back. Not difficult to do, surely.
(A) The problem with this is you give the average supporter enough time to see the free kick, not hear the whistle, call out "What effing game are you watching idiot". The umpire would have to acknowledge the free kick in lieu of blowing the whistle. (Rugby wave their hand in the air)

(B) Acknowledgement would still have to take place otherwise you get "Keep up", "About time" or "Lose your whistle champ?"

In the case of Maggot Margetts, surely it's as easy as one of the other two umpires to overrule, and give the ball back to Hawthorn.
 

Adelaide Hawk

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#71
(A) The problem with this is you give the average supporter enough time to see the free kick, not hear the whistle, call out "What effing game are you watching idiot". The umpire would have to acknowledge the free kick in lieu of blowing the whistle. (Rugby wave their hand in the air)

(B) Acknowledgement would still have to take place otherwise you get "Keep up", "About time" or "Lose your whistle champ?"

In the case of Maggot Margetts, surely it's as easy as one of the other two umpires to overrule, and give the ball back to Hawthorn.
I'm not concerned about idiot supporters screaming at umpires, they'll do that anyway. I'm more interested in the fairest way to deal with it. We must have an advantage rule, otherwise we return to the deliberate holding up play. Just allow the game to unfold for a couple of seconds ... it takes longer than that for umpires to call a HTB decision ... and if the team has not been advantaged, just bring it back. I really can't see a downside to it, unless you call a pack of loonies in the crowd who don't know what's going on a downside.
 

RedV3x

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#73
Umpire blows whistle for the free. Yells "advantage" if the opportunity arises and with the next breath yells "taken" if player takes advantage or calls it back if player opts not to take advantage or is tackled, ball comes loose, out of bounds...
The acknowledgement of advantage should be for courtesy only.
If there is clear advantage the umpire should signify that indeed he saw a free kick just to be accountable.
If there is no clear advantage a free kick should be paid.
The bias should be towards a free kick. ATM it is biased towards play on.
Oh, I'm sorry there was no real advantage what shall we do now ?
That is giving the advantaged player two bites at the cherry.
IMO, we all know what clear advantage is, that is the ball has gone forward to a player in the clear.
ATM umpires seem to be guessing what in coaching terms might be to advantage or
paying advantage is a good option if the team is skilful and doesn't mess up.
 

kosifantutti

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#74
Tell me, how did advantage work in Australian Football before the AFL introduced the advantage law ?
There was no advantage before there was an advantage rule. I think it came in sometime in the 80s. Before that, they would blow the whistle for every free kick and play would stop.
 

RedV3x

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#75
There was no advantage before there was an advantage rule. I think it came in sometime in the 80s. Before that, they would blow the whistle for every free kick and play would stop.
You think ?
I know.
There was unofficial advantage. If there was a clear advantage the umpire simply would not blow his whistle
as that would disadvantage the team in possession. It was as if the umpire had never seen the infringement.
You would see it outside of Victoria where grounds were firmer and play was more open.
 
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