The AFL, Clubs and Pokies thread

Discussion in 'The Footy Industry' started by RussellEbertHandball, Jan 4, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    Hawthorn's facility is inside the City of Melton, but on the very border with the City of Brimbank.
     

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  2. Gralin

    Gralin Spec Moderator

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    But the suburb of Hawthorn wasn't part of the study and Melton is where Essendon have their venue
     
  3. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    The Gambling research centres publication did not associate LGAs. It specifically cites suburb clusters. You have completely invented that.

    Ill quote again

     
  4. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    Tale of two suburbs: Gambling in suburban Australia
    Media Release — 7 July 2016
    https://aifs.gov.au/media-releases/tale-two-suburbs-gambling-suburban-australia

    [​IMG]
    New research by the Australian Gambling Research Centre has found that gambling addiction is having a much bigger impact on families in Melbourne's western suburbs, compared to those in Melbourne's east.

    In a research presentation to the Australian Institute of Family Studies' conference, findings from the Gambling in Suburban Australia study detail the impact of gambling on a cluster of western suburbs - around Sunshine - compared to an eastern suburbs area - around Box Hill.

    The Centre's director, Anne Hollonds said the research found that gambling losses in the western suburbs were more than three times higher than those in the eastern suburbs.

    "In the western suburbs around Sunshine, the annual average loss per adult on poker machines was $1,358, compared to $400 for adults in the eastern suburbs around Box Hill," Ms Hollonds said.

    "While the higher losses in the west were not unexpected; this is the first time they had been quantified in this way.

    "The two sites have almost the same number of households and are roughly the same distance from the city but the impact of gambling on families is far greater in the western suburbs."

    The Centre's Research Fellow, Angela Rintoul said the harm from gambling could be more severe for people in the western suburbs who had fewer resources to draw upon than those in the eastern suburbs.

    "Households in the west have a higher level of socioeconomic disadvantage, whereas households in the east were around average," she said.

    "This magnifies the harm from gambling. For example, one gambler in the east said losses meant their family had to go without repairing the dishwasher for six months, while several gamblers in the west said gambling losses meant they literally could not afford food for their children."

    Dr Rintoul said there were many more gambling venues in the west and twice as many gambling machines per head of population than in the east.

    "Around Sunshine there are 407 electronic gambling machines, or 10 machines for every 1,000 adults, compared to the Box Hill area where there are 205 machines, or 4 for every 1,000 adults," she said.

    Dr Rintoul said the study also raised concerns about the consistency of venues' compliance with codes of conduct for gamblers.

    "There are written codes of conduct that staff use in assisting people showing signs of gambling problems but based on our observations and interviews, these did not always match up with the practices of some venue staff," she said.

    "For example, gamblers may be playing two machines at once and betting above $3 per spin and still be provided with a meal at their machine. These are signs of problem gambling that need to be disrupted, rather than facilitated by venue staff.

    "Study participants also expressed concern about exposing gambling to young people. For example some venues in the west have children's play equipment on site, whereas gambling venues in the east did not.

    "It is important for communities to develop their own spaces for families to visit outside the home without exposing children to gambling.

    "This research will help inform all levels of government about who goes to these venues, why they go and how the effects of gambling are being felt in these local communities.

    "In turn, this will help inform regulators of the issues they should be considering when reviewing applications for additional gambling facilities at a local level."

    The Gambling in Suburban Australia Study research sites are: Site 1: The suburb cluster of Sunshine, Sunshine West, Sunshine North, Ardeer, Albion and Braybrook in Melbourne's west. Site 2: The suburb cluster of Box Hill, North Box Hill, South Box Hill, Blackburn, North Blackburn and South Blackburn in Melbourne's east.
     
  5. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    That's a pretty speculative conclusion.

    If a significant percentage of profits must be used within the local community, I put it to you that a not-for-profit endeavour like a footy club is more likely to fall in line than a for-profit entity.

    Anyway, it would not take too much to limit the license to run pokies to not-for-profit entities.

    When people talk of pokies being a legal activity, in Melbourne, we're only talking some 20 years that it has been legal.

    If pokies are entrenching poverty in places like Melton/Sunshine, then some firmer government action is warranted.

    I'm not sure why people on this board feel that pokies should naturally remain a profitable activity for profit-making entities.

    Why should that be viewed as immutable, especially in Victoria where pokies are so new.?
     
  6. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    Sunshine West and Ardeer are at the outer edges of the City of Brimbank.
     
  7. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    Further the assertion I object to the automatic inclusion of Melton with Sunshine on the basis that according to the ABS Stats from 2011 - the next study is due in 2018 - The City of Brimbank ranks #9 , where the city of Melton ranks #48 on the SEIFA.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    I view Box Hill has being in Hawthorn's back yard.

    You think the propensity to spend money on pokies will change as it gets closer to Hawthorn?

    The disadvantaged Western suburbs spend 3.5 times more than the affluent Eastern suburbs.
     
  9. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    No less speculative than most of the stuff you've written here.

    Im pretty sure thats more or less what i wrote.

    lol. right.



    Im not sure why you are making up conclusions that arent based on anything presented on this board. People disagreeing with your Hawthorn position and cherry picked studies havent expressed approval of pokies in general, just disapproval of your argument. Which, despite warnings, has taken over this thread again it seems.
     
  10. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    I'll repeat, Hawthorn's facility is in the City of Melton, but it is not in Melton - there's a difference, it is on the border with Brimbank.
     
  11. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    You cant just cite a study and extend it to areas not included in the study like its a fact.
     
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  12. DemonTim

    DemonTim Norm Smith Medallist

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    Thanks wookie. That should completely shut discussion down, since three of the specific areas I mentioned that other clubs operate in are much lower

    I didn't find this in my research, but this just blows it's whole theory and failed understanding of research out of the water

    I can only assume it will do what it has done in the past, ignore it, and copy and paste the same stuff over and over
     
  13. Furn2

    Furn2 Norm Smith Medallist

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    I'm not talking about pubs I'm talking about clubs and the afl pushing Coca Cola and hungry jacks etc.

    1 million diabetics. 4 million obese. 15 million overweight in Aus. Record rates of bowel cancer.

    Pokies are pretty harmless in comparison. They just take your money. You can always get more money.
     
  14. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    Really?

    Let's go through it again.

    1. Hawthorn earns the most pokies revenue of any club (has anyone argued otherwise).

    2. It's facility in Caroline Springs earns the most pokie revenue of any other venue in the AFL (not open to debate).

    3. Caroline Springs is part of the City of Melton, and sits alongside the City of Brimbank, two of the most disadvantaged areas in Melbourne.

    4. The Australian Centre for Gambling Research states that the disadvantaged West spend 3.5 times more per annum than the affluent Eastern suburbs, which is where Hawthorn is from.

    5. The Australian Centre for Gambling Research states that this higher propensity to gamble on pokies is entrenching poverty in the disadvantaged Western suburbs.

    6. So this club from the affluent Eastern suburbs, where there is a lower propensity to spend money on pokies, is profiting from the greater propensity to spend money on pokies in Melbourne's Western suburbs, and therefore is helping in entrenching poverty in the disadvantaged Western suburbs.

    7. Unlike the Western Bulldogs, which runs community programs in this area, Hawthorn has no such community programs.
     
  15. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    Pokies are pretty harmless in comparison?

    As madmug is intimating, a father or mother can basically bankrupt a family overnight by playing pokies, they can spend every last cent they own (plus some), leaving a whole family destitute.

    How can that be described as harmless?
     
  16. Gigantor

    Gigantor Brownlow Medallist

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    I note St Albans is not in the study.

    You reckon St Albans would give a different result to Sunshine West, Ardeer, Sunshine North, Albion, etc?

    So yeh, I definitely can draw conclusions from that study and apply them to nearby areas such as St Albans and Melton, where we know there are similar levels of disadvantage.

    Also, the people of Sunshine West and Ardeer do have the capacity to hop in a car and drive the few minutes needed to get to Caroline Springs.

    Lastly, I'm not sure why you are making a big deal of those SEIFA rankings, about 80% of them are rural, and my point has been about the disparity between the disadvantaged WEstern Suburbs and the affluent Eastern suburbs.
     
  17. Gralin

    Gralin Spec Moderator

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    I wonder if the study had centred on say Springvale and Williamstown whether the end article would have been Melbourne's disadvantaged east being hurt by pokies more than the affluent west

    You can't pick two regions based on distance from cbd and use them to generalise over both sides of a city
     
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  18. rfctiger74

    rfctiger74 Premium Platinum

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    you are aware Box Hill is a dry zone, and its therefore a requirement that any new premise doesn't just need council approval, it needs to be voted on and approved by the local citizens?

    with that hurdle in place, no shit box hill has SFA pokies

    *and that hurdle is a long historic one going back decades before pokies were even legal in victoria, it was a liquor licencing restriction initially (now covers both)
     
  19. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    Well lets move onto this point then. The number of pokies between the east and west, the wests apparent increased susceptbility compared to the east, etc etc.

    Sure, the city of Brimbank is top for losses...care to guess who the next cabs off the rank are? Casey and Dandenong. How far west are these?

    [​IMG]
    ref: https://www.vcgr.vic.gov.au/CA256F800017E8D4/VCGLR/2C4FB00D26AF1EFFCA257B320078D3F5?OpenDocument
     
  20. Garlic muncher

    Garlic muncher Premiership Player

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    You reckon those clubs sell alcohol ?

    Pokies are not a problem unless they are a problem - right!
     
  21. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Moderator

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    thats just it if you'd picked say Dandenong and Hobsons Bay, you'd have got the reverse.
     
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  22. DemonTim

    DemonTim Norm Smith Medallist

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    The point you're responding to is non existent. 80% are rural? So, the three areas I specified in which Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond operate venues are below both Melton and Brimbank. They're not rural, and they're not west

    The most disingenuous poster I've seen here
     
  23. DemonTim

    DemonTim Norm Smith Medallist

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    as I said in the other thread. They chose the two areas for a specific reason, to make their findings seem more shocking. It's a very basic research tactic to push your point. Most research is done in this manner. Comparing like for like doesn't show much
     
  24. madmug

    madmug Norm Smith Medallist

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    All places that serve alcohol must practice RSA. You cant eat enough, or drink enough coke in 2 hours at the footy to cause obesity or dibetes.
    You can destroy youself financially using an AFL clubs pokies.
     
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  25. DemonTim

    DemonTim Norm Smith Medallist

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    I take it you haven't been to a licenced venue in a while
    It's not about the two hours of consumption either