The AFL, Clubs and Pokies thread

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Posts
31,734
Likes
29,035
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Moderator #101
I didnt say it wasnt made illegal. The fact was the AFL & clubs survived the loss of that antisocial source of income.
Well that and tobacco sponsorship was never really a VFL/AFL thing. My point is, if you want the clubs to stop doing something legislate it.

If anything it makes the AFL clubs position even more odious. Sucking the gambling addicted dry & squibbing on paying a social tax on that money. It shows how depraved & lacking community care their behavior really is. They like to sprook to Gument, media & us poor plebs on the street what wonderful community citizens they are. What crap.
IF the AFL clubs werent doing it, someone else would be, and they'd have even less of a social obligation.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

DemonTim

Cancelled
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Posts
11,394
Likes
8,059
AFL Club
Melbourne
My point is the AFL clubs are in a privileged position. They get a lot of Gument largesse. They sprook their community credentials. Then they get involved in this very dubious behavior. Its an obvious contradiction

Someone else pointed out Diabetes & Obesity. I just pointed out the difference between crap food at the footy 11 times a year & 20 hours of draining money each day.
Yes, and everyone agrees on the first point. BUt like the other poster in the thread you're still only looking at the narrowest view possible

I'll ask again, would it be okay if the AFL just advertised gambling without running the venues? or just had pokies at the footy grounds on game day?
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,105
Likes
7,645
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood

They also act entirely within the governing legislation.
And I pointed out the moral position that clubs put themselves in with their 'community' work. Thats juxtaposed to their involvement with these pokie dens which drain money out of communities. The main problem being the percentage of 'profits' comes from those least able to afford it. It is an addictive creating activity.
Then those clubs are squibbing the payments back to the community out of their profits.
 

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
And I pointed out the moral position that clubs put themselves in with their 'community' work. Thats juxtaposed to their involvement with these pokie dens which drain money out of communities. The main problem being the percentage of 'profits' comes from those least able to afford it. It is an addictive creating activity.
Then those clubs are squibbing the payments back to the community out of their profits.
and they provide a better community service than the companies that own them would provide if clubs no longer owned them.

Even $1 is more than Woolies would pay.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,105
Likes
7,645
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
and they provide a better community service than the companies that own them would provide if clubs no longer owned them.

Even $1 is more than Woolies would pay.
If that made up excuse helps you sleep at night, then fine.
Its about having a moral compass.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
27,365
Likes
40,973
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #107
In fact most people do not destroy themselves doing any of those things.

Most of those hotels or clubs i would have thought have a TAB, more people have destroyed themselves gambling on the Gee gees than pokies i would have thought, in fact i would have thought more people have destroyed themselves gambling via a mobile phone than pokies these days and more people killed using a mobile phone driving than pokies have killed people.

Just do not get the unbridled hate for them when in fact the vast majority of people play them responsibly.

Alcohol causes far more problems than pokies.

The hypocrisy around potentially banning pokies from clubs but letting them serve alcohol is just amazing, about as intelligent as banning greyhound racing i would have thought.
It's like anything, some people shouldn't drink, some shouldn't gamble some shouldn't drive etc
Doesn't mean it should be banned for everyone.

Smoking has no redeeming qualities yet is legal, junk food is probably in the same boat as smoking except it tastes better.

There are lots of things the AFL and clubs do that I would prefer they didn't but at the end of the day if they are legal ways of making coin sports clubs aren't necessarily the ones who should be taking moral stands.

People that don't like pokies shouldn't shop at Woolworths, but that's a lot harder to do than complain about a footy club they already don't like on the internet :D
 

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
If that made up excuse helps you sleep at night, then fine.
Its about having a moral compass.
Yes, and I'm more interested in reducing the number of machines out there, and through that the effect they have on both individuals and society rather than focusing on the purely cosmetic stuff like who owns them.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,105
Likes
7,645
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yes, and I'm more interested in reducing the number of machines out there, and through that the effect they have on both individuals and society rather than focusing on the purely cosmetic stuff like who owns them.
Thats admirable & in general I agree.

I just find it hard to accept sports clubs who benefit so much from Gument assistance & sprook their community activities are so heavily into this miserable industry. An industry, which by all accounts needs the heavily addicted to make most of their profit.

West coast Eagles seem to go ok without having them.
 

Gralin

Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Posts
27,365
Likes
40,973
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Buffalo Bills
Admin #111
Thats admirable & in general I agree.

I just find it hard to accept sports clubs who benefit so much from Gument assistance & sprook their community activities are so heavily into this miserable industry. An industry, which by all accounts needs the heavily addicted to make most of their profit.

West coast Eagles seem to go ok without having them.
West coast aren't allowed to have them, west coast are also not like any other team financially
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
Thats admirable & in general I agree.

I just find it hard to accept sports clubs who benefit so much from Gument assistance & sprook their community activities are so heavily into this miserable industry. An industry, which by all accounts needs the heavily addicted to make most of their profit.

West coast Eagles seem to go ok without having them.
Focus on the governments...They also say a lot more about what they do to people, but the Vic Government collects roughly 40 times the income from pokies than all the Vic clubs combined, and unlike the clubs, they have the power to do something about the actual problem.


If you're going to consider WCE to be the standard for financial assessment of clubs, it'd be a very small competition.
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Posts
31,734
Likes
29,035
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Moderator #113
Thats admirable & in general I agree.

I just find it hard to accept sports clubs who benefit so much from Gument assistance & sprook their community activities are so heavily into this miserable industry. An industry, which by all accounts needs the heavily addicted to make most of their profit.

West coast Eagles seem to go ok without having them.
Would that all clubs had access to the stadium deal that the Eagles have, or the capacity to rip off the local members because of "demand"
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,105
Likes
7,645
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Would that all clubs had access to the stadium deal that the Eagles have, or the capacity to rip off the local members because of "demand"
Well it actually all points to the fact of too many clubs in Melbourne. They are so desperate they sell games interstate & attack their own communities with poker machines. Their are too many all fighting each other for the same dollar in the same market.

It use to be that the NSWRL only survived because of their leagues clubs. I was very critical of that.

Now many AFL clubs are doing the same. Its greed & desperation.
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Posts
31,734
Likes
29,035
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Moderator #115
Well it actually all points to the fact of too many clubs in Melbourne. They are so desperate they sell games interstate & attack their own communities with poker machines. Their are too many all fighting each other for the same dollar in the same market.

It use to be that the NSWRL only survived because of their leagues clubs. I was very critical of that.

Now many AFL clubs are doing the same. Its greed & desperation.
Not it doesnt. The eagles stadium deal has no connection to the number of clubs in Victoria. You give all clubs the same deal the eagles have and everyone would have money.
 

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
Well it actually all points to the fact of too many clubs in Melbourne. They are so desperate they sell games interstate & attack their own communities with poker machines. Their are too many all fighting each other for the same dollar in the same market.

It use to be that the NSWRL only survived because of their leagues clubs. I was very critical of that.

Now many AFL clubs are doing the same. Its greed & desperation.

Does Port having Pokies mean there are too many clubs in Adelaide?

As for only surviving due to pokies...For most clubs, it's a relatively small share of their income (~10-15%?)...Far less than they get ripped off with the AFL's stadium deals.
 

TheGreatBarryB

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Posts
18,318
Likes
17,375
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Texans, Astros, Leeds
The Community Benefits tax break clubs can claim (see Wookie's #5 post) is a complete and utter joke.

This is where clubs operated by AFL teams must use a minimum of 8.3 per cent of their revenue to benefit the community to receive a tax break.
However, a loophole in the law allows clubs to claim operating expenses as a community benefit.

Example Carlton claim expenses of Princes Park under their Laverton club. The good folk of Laverton effectively fund for the upkeep of Carlton's home ground 20 kms away. Nice.
 

Belnakor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
18,138
Likes
8,669
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Not it doesnt. The eagles stadium deal has no connection to the number of clubs in Victoria. You give all clubs the same deal the eagles have and everyone would have money.
thats a big call and are you factoring in the kick back that both WCE and Freo pay to the WAFC every year?
 

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
isn't that more of a symptom of the captive market? Having been to some of those functions the food/drink is dogshit and yet you are paying top dollar.
Trust me, that isn't a Perth only phenomenon. I've had party pies served up before...

To a degree, yes, the larger grounds in Vic drive down prices meaning Vic clubs wouldn't profit as much, but that is also driven by the need to compete with the AFL (AFL members), particularly in the 'premium' space...Which is why Collingwood premium memberships cost roughly the same as those for St Kilda, which wouldn't be the case if it was just a matter of supply and demand.
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Posts
31,734
Likes
29,035
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Moderator #122
Theres also the fact that victorian football tickets are regulated. AFL Ticket prices at the MCG are subject to approval by the Victorian Government. The league and clubs cant just charge what they want.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Posts
14,105
Likes
7,645
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Trust me, that isn't a Perth only phenomenon. I've had party pies served up before...

To a degree, yes, the larger grounds in Vic drive down prices meaning Vic clubs wouldn't profit as much, but that is also driven by the need to compete with the AFL (AFL members), particularly in the 'premium' space...Which is why Collingwood premium memberships cost roughly the same as those for St Kilda, which wouldn't be the case if it was just a matter of supply and demand.
Supply & demand! I bet if Collingwood tried to charge a lot more than another club, the fans would rebel over such a rip off. They wouldnt go & buy another clubs cheaper product. They would simply complain long, loud & bitterly. Some would simply not buy the inflated price. Its not a free market situation. Its a group of somewhat captive markets which are tribal & act emotionally much more than with economics in mind.
 

telsor

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Posts
29,556
Likes
25,530
Location
Here
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Habs
Supply & demand! I bet if Collingwood tried to charge a lot more than another club, the fans would rebel over such a rip off. They wouldnt go & buy another clubs cheaper product. They would simply complain long, loud & bitterly. Some would simply not buy the inflated price. Its not a free market situation. Its a group of somewhat captive markets which are tribal & act emotionally much more than with economics in mind.
So you don't think any of them would buy an AFL membership instead?
 

eggtardo

Team Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Posts
347
Likes
647
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Yes, and I'm more interested in reducing the number of machines out there, and through that the effect they have on both individuals and society rather than focusing on the purely cosmetic stuff like who owns them.
On reducing the pokies, I'm interested to see what happens here. Numbers (other than crown) haven't been increased for some time and population growth would suggest that guidelines of machines per head could increase significantly in a number of regions (Wyndham, Cardinia, etc.). I'd hope not but personally can see the government justifying an increase with the next lot of rights (2022).
 
Top Bottom