The AFL wants 22 teams. Name your next four.

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almuz

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Mar 24, 2012
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I just disliked your comment.

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Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to BigFooty PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of dislike appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.

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kickazz

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 12, 2010
8,490
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Actually I completely forgot about a big problem with a 21 round (or for that matter, any odd numbered) season - it makes for an unequal number of home and away games, thus also providing another element of "unfairness", as well as providing problems for clubs with less home games than others selling their memberships. I think these reasons alone will kill off any odd numbered length season (not including byes obviously). I also think any draw will also continue to include 2 local derbies for the non-Victorian teams to mitigate the travel factor (which can be seen as another element of unfairness)
Easy fix. Do what the A League did, X home, X away, and one round at bullshit neutral venues like Tassie, Darwin, Moe, wherever.
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
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True, but to kill/relocate a club would cost them more support than they'd likely make up in a decade from the new location.

Shrinking the support base isn't 'expansion'.
Reckon a representative side of Mildura and Broken Hill would attract more fans then North ever will. There's probably two or three Victorian clubs alone who a Tasmanian side would eclipse in support inside the first year.
 

telsor

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2004
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Reckon a representative side of Mildura and Broken Hill would attract more fans then North ever will. There's probably two or three Victorian clubs alone who a Tasmanian side would eclipse in support inside the first year.
You'd be wrong on the first bit. Remember, they're not that much smaller than Port.

As for Tas....Fans of a Tas team would almost entirely be existing fans, who jump club to support the new local team. There would be very few NEW supporters.

As was learnt from Fitzroy, about 1/3 of support for a team that gets killed from the VFL/AFL is lost from the game entirely.

So you might gain 10-20K new fans, and you'll lose about 75-100K existing fans.

Add to that that you're moving a team from a growing market (Melbourne) to a shrinking one (Tas).


As a general comment, be careful what you wish for. As was pointed out ~20 years ago when Richmond was struggling, that while our club wasn't top of the list to be dumped, it was still on the list of clubs with a questionable future, and every club that was removed took us closer to the top. Currently, Port must be on that list, and probably in roughly the same spot on that list we were in back then....Difference is, you don't have the same upside we did.
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
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You'd be wrong on the first bit. Remember, they're not that much smaller than Port.
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They are the numbers from 1997 to 2016 for our membership tallies. Our last three years have been over 50,000 with 2018 having us at 55k members. North had 42,000 in 2018 as their highest membership total between 2018-2020 from what I've been able to find. Attendance figures from just last year have us at an average of just under 34,000 for home games and North at 20,808.

Reckon by those figures alone it's more then a bit of a stupid statement to say North are anywhere near us in any metric for supporters. Etihad and AO are also both around the 50k mark in prime locations with public transport galore so I'm really struggling to see any way why they're such a lowly supported club other then the fact that they have fu** all supporters even in their own city of 5 million people.

As for Tas....Fans of a Tas team would almost entirely be existing fans, who jump club to support the new local team. There would be very few NEW supporters.
Between a population of 537,000 (from December of last year) and their legion of expats living across the main land it's not a stretch to say that they'd still be a highly supported club it's a set in stone reality.

As was learnt from Fitzroy, about 1/3 of support for a team that gets killed from the VFL/AFL is lost from the game entirely.
Yeah aye 2/3's of North's 20,808 match going supporters would really make a dent in AFL finances and everyone here knows that Tasmania would struggle to fill up either Launceston or Hobart if they ever got a side /s

Don't see why ditching a side like North and sending them somewhere like Canberra and bringing in Tasmania (who deserve their own side) is met with such vitriol. North are in the competition by virtue of being a relic VFL side and having Wayne Carey when relocations and mergers were all the rage.

Add to that that you're moving a team from a growing market (Melbourne) to a shrinking one (Tas).
Tasmania, contrary to popular belief, has been growing not shrinking and despite Melbourne's growing population North don't seem to be getting any benefit from it considering their support in Melbourne is absolutely piss.

As a general comment, be careful what you wish for. As was pointed out ~20 years ago when Richmond was struggling, that while our club wasn't top of the list to be dumped, it was still on the list of clubs with a questionable future, and every club that was removed took us closer to the top. Currently, Port must be on that list, and probably in roughly the same spot on that list we were in back then....Difference is, you don't have the same upside we did.
Yeah because a club that's getting 50,000+ members yearly despite not being a regular finals side and being in a city like Adelaide is cause for concern :drunk:

You must be trying to draw the longest bow possible if you think there's any comparison between us and North. We struggled 10 years ago and have come out of it with regularly high crowds and membership renewals most years whilst North made a prelim in 2014 and saw a colossal increase of 1,000 people in attendance.
 

telsor

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I'm dropping the Port v North bit because it's off the point and clearly got you too worked up...I think if you think about it you'll know why the suggesting upset you though.


Between a population of 537,000 (from December of last year) and their legion of expats living across the main land it's not a stretch to say that they'd still be a highly supported club it's a set in stone reality.
Uh huh...So how many NEW supporters of football would there be (as opposed to people who currently support other teams and switch).

Yeah aye 2/3's of North's 20,808 match going supporters would really make a dent in AFL finances and everyone here knows that Tasmania would struggle to fill up either Launceston or Hobart if they ever got a side /s
I'm sure Ch7 considers their support base larger than that...As do the AFL (losing parents means loss of kids, even if those parents aren't paid up members/regular attendees.)

Tasmania, contrary to popular belief, has been growing not shrinking and despite Melbourne's growing population North don't seem to be getting any benefit from it considering their support in Melbourne is absolutely piss.
Technically not, but both the ABS and Tasmanian government forward estimates say they will be within 10 years. That they're not already is only due to people living longer. The younger demographics (like the ones who play the game) are already in decline, and these are the people of most interest to both the AFL and sponsors/advertisers.

North doesn't need to get a LOT out of the growth in Melbourne...If they're getting anything, they're doing better than a Tas team would. 100 fans new to the game, and 1 new member, and they'll be ahead of the 'growth' a Tas team would have.
 

Tackle Bag

Team Captain
Dec 5, 2017
529
825
AFL Club
Richmond
Tassie
WA third team
SA third team
WA fourth team

Remove 1 fwd pocket, 1 bck pocket, centre, 1 wing & 1 bench from each side on game day.
Remaining wings start on opposite sides of the ground.
Cap interchange at 40.
Game opens up and everyone plays each other once through the year.
Player depth not stretched as much due to reduced players required onfield.
Head office would be very happy.

will never happen
 
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Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
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I'm dropping the Port v North bit because it's off the point and clearly got you too worked up...I think if you think about it you'll know why the suggesting upset you though.
You said that we were of a similar size so how is me proving that statement bullshit off the point?

I'm sure Ch7 considers their support base larger than that...As do the AFL (losing parents means loss of kids, even if those parents aren't paid up members/regular attendees.)
So what, North is some generation or two away from finally getting decent membership numbers or attendance? If this losing parents argument had any weight then why don't have they have a huge paying supporter base from the Carey years? A Tasmanian side would have a fair few more paying members and match day goers then North would in their first year and unlike North I reckon kids of supporters of a Tasmanian side would actually stick with that team and follow them and pay for memberships and tickets to games when they're older.

Technically not, but both the ABS and Tasmanian government forward estimates say they will be within 10 years. That they're not already is only due to people living longer. The younger demographics (like the ones who play the game) are already in decline, and these are the people of most interest to both the AFL and sponsors/advertisers.
1) The potential for a population decline is there but the Tasmanian government seem pretty intent on getting the population to 650,000 by 2050. Whether it happens is a different discussion.

2) I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that a Tasmanian AFL side would be a pretty good way of keeping a number of the young people who leave for the mainland in the state.

North doesn't need to get a LOT out of the growth in Melbourne...If they're getting anything, they're doing better than a Tas team would. 100 fans new to the game, and 1 new member, and they'll be ahead of the 'growth' a Tas team would have.
How does this make sense? If you're in a city of 5 million people that's growing exponentially and your match day attendance average is barely over 20,000 and your memberships is just over double that then you're doing a horrible job of attracting new supporters in a national competition. A Tasmanian side would be far more likely to attract new payees to the AFL then a club like North if that's the key indicator you're going off of.
 

Asapartyhat

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Apr 25, 2012
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I think if Geelong can have a viable team in a national league then Tasmania can do the same.

I often wonder how a team from the strong proud football state of Tasmania would go in a national competition.Cant be any worse than say Fremantle as an example imo but I suppose we will never know.
 
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kid_a

Club Legend
Apr 5, 2010
2,132
964
Port Hedland
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Glory, Hammarby, Ajax, Canadiens
2028- FC Tasmania (forest Green, gold, white)
+ based primarily in Hobart but also plays 4 out of 11 home games in Launceston per season.
2029- Canberra Wolves (Black, lime green)
+ based at manuka oval
2042- Perth Royal-Falcons(red, blue, black)
+ a combined effort of Perth, East Perth and west perth, with reserves split between those 3 clubs in the wafl. Based primarily at Joondalup, but 3 home games a year at leederville oval.
2042- North QLD Stingrays(blue, green)
+primarily based in Cairns but also playing 3 of 11 home games in Townsville.
 

Obzerva

Rookie
May 3, 2018
34
94
AFL Club
Adelaide
So long as North doesn’t end up in Tasmania.

North had tried Sydney, Canberra, Gold Coast and now Hobart, and the reaction to all had been lukewarm at best.

Tassie is a proud football state, they don’t want a relocated team with the baggage that brings, they want their own 100% team.

Given Tassie’s state colours are green and gold, you’d want that in their guernsey.
Canberra can justify a team, but not for a few more years until the Giants are ready to play all of their home games in Sydney.

22 teams would be too many, Canberra + Tas would bring up to 20, barring any mergers (ugly word, sorry had to mention it)
Nth Qld can be covered by the Gold Coast and the NT by any Melbourne team needing to have a home game elsewhere.
 

almuz

Senior List
Mar 24, 2012
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428
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Canberra could probably handle a team in the next 10-15 years. Few points/issues:

Manuka stadium could do with another grandstand

Public transport to Manuka for games isn’t great - buses only currently. Light rail to city would be great but seems awhile off.

Most/all home games during the day. Brumbies play a heap of night games and no one rocks up- too cold in winter.

Branding the team as something cool and hip like Giants or something more outback-capital yee-hawish like the Brumbies?
 

WestCoast05

Club Legend
Jan 14, 2016
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Canberra Corruption

Perth Sharks

Tassie Devils


The names are a joke, but the locations my real suggestions.
 

Walshawk

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Mar 24, 2017
1,809
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Canberra could probably handle a team in the next 10-15 years. Few points/issues:

Manuka stadium could do with another grandstand

Public transport to Manuka for games isn’t great - buses only currently. Light rail to city would be great but seems awhile off.

Most/all home games during the day. Brumbies play a heap of night games and no one rocks up- too cold in winter.

Branding the team as something cool and hip like Giants or something more outback-capital yee-hawish like the Brumbies?
2025. Tassie Devils based in Hobart playing half games each North and south. York Park to be expanded and host all finals. 24 game season over 26 weeks. GWS to rebrand Western Sydney and exit Canberra. If they need to play home games during the Easter show, play in Newcastle or Wollongong. Hawks and Saints to play 2/3 games each in Canberra including away v GWS. North to Albury for 2/3 games. Gold Coast all games at GC, North to Nth Qld (2/3 games in Cairns, Townsville, McKay), Dees 2/3 games NT.
2031. Canberra RAMS - assuming good crowds for Hawks / Saints games and a 20k+ stadium. If Canberra not ready, stick with 19 teams.
 

juss

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 23, 2009
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I think the first two quite easily, after that it gets a bit difficult. I note that the Central Coast has teams in both the NRL and A-League, NQ could also possibly be taken on by the local market, I think based on that city size I'd then add

Newcastle Nuggets
Townsville Toot-Toots

Obviously the names are essential to the bids getting up.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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I think the first two quite easily, after that it gets a bit difficult. I note that the Central Coast has teams in both the NRL and A-League, NQ could also possibly be taken on by the local market, I think based on that city size I'd then add

Newcastle Nuggets
Townsville Toot-Toots

Obviously the names are essential to the bids getting up.
Tarantulas, like Hurricanes (Hobart T20) are both tropical phenomenon. As such, the names are rather silly for a mid latitude environment.

Anyway, do continue. ;)
 

Duckenthusiast

Senior List
Suspended
Jul 4, 2020
245
383
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Port Adelaide
Do you guys think SA could sustain a third team? Like Sturt or Norwood heading up? Port and Crows do pretty well for themselves
They absolutely could not. Adelaide is a strong club (financially) because it is basically the entire state. Port is a mid-weak team (financially) as the absolute stand out team in the SANFL. Not only was it the best SANFL team overall, it was arguably in its best shape when it finally got the nod. Even a Sturt or a Norwood would be an absolute disaster. They would need GC/GWS level concessions to be competitive in the medium term and would struggle to get 15k to a game. Anyone even remotely interested in football already has a team. The Norwood/ Sturt supporters support Adelaide because they hate us. A third team would achieve nothing. It wouldn't bring new supporters to games, it would cannibalize Adelaide's supporter base. It would greatly weaken Adelaide, and arguably still affect us as the third team would compete for local sponsorship. Instead of having a very sound financial club, and one that is okay, you would have 3 clubs that were vulnerable.
 

almuz

Senior List
Mar 24, 2012
276
428
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2025. Tassie Devils based in Hobart playing half games each North and south. York Park to be expanded and host all finals. 24 game season over 26 weeks. GWS to rebrand Western Sydney and exit Canberra. If they need to play home games during the Easter show, play in Newcastle or Wollongong. Hawks and Saints to play 2/3 games each in Canberra including away v GWS. North to Albury for 2/3 games. Gold Coast all games at GC, North to Nth Qld (2/3 games in Cairns, Townsville, McKay), Dees 2/3 games NT.
2031. Canberra RAMS - assuming good crowds for Hawks / Saints games and a 20k+ stadium. If Canberra not ready, stick with 19 teams.
Good shout- if Tassie gets its own team (hopefully soon) then Hawks could play a few games in Canberra to replace the Launceston games.

I reckon that would be a good litmus test to see if CBR gets consistent good crowds.

Hawks v Giants got 11.7K in the snow. Otherwise between 2012 and 2019 the average crowd each year at Manuka ranges between 8.2K - 12.8K. Noting the capacity is 16K. Hopefully the crowds would increase if Hawks/Saints played other Vic clubs there.

One further issue with creating teams from Tassie then CBR would be corporate sponsorship. Two clubs that’d be from smaller population centres which may be an issue for the AFL’s coffers.
 

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